McCandless Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 There seems to be a motion (perhaps being considered by the ROC?) to change the Shotgun requirements for Frontiersman to "hammered doubles" only. Sorta making it like Classic Cowboy with capguns, which is already an option. What is the rationale for this? Why is a "hammerless" double not acceptable? If the reason is to be more historically accurate, do we then take away any rifle after 1873? Or, do we outlaw a certain percussion revolver that never existed? Seems like a can o' worms being opened to no good purpose. Does someone want less Frontiersman shooters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 To quote several well know frontiersman shooters "LEAVE FRONTIERSMAN ALONE" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catlow4697 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Don't change what isn't broke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El diablo gringo Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 LOL, first I’ve heard of this. I’m gonna get the beer and popcorn ready Gringo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Leave Frontiersman Alone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 19 minutes ago, McCandless said: There seems to be a motion (perhaps being considered by the ROC?) to change the Shotgun requirements for Frontiersman to "hammered doubles" only. Sorta making it like Classic Cowboy with capguns, which is already an option. What is the rationale for this? Why is a "hammerless" double not acceptable? If the reason is to be more historically accurate, do we then take away any rifle after 1873? Or, do we outlaw a certain percussion revolver that never existed? Seems like a can o' worms being opened to no good purpose. Does someone want less Frontiersman shooters? "Misty indicated that the matter could be referred to the RO Committee." I personally don't see this proposal getting much traction due to the number of Frontiersman shooters currently using hammerless SxSs. Current regs: Quote - Must use a side-by-side, single shot, or lever action shotgun in the main match stages. SHB p.10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCandless Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 24 minutes ago, El diablo gringo said: LOL, first I’ve heard of this. I’m gonna get the beer and popcorn ready Gringo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Sin Nombre Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 43 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said: "Misty indicated that the matter could be referred to the RO Committee." I personally don't see this proposal getting much traction due to the number of Frontiersman shooters currently using hammerless SxSs. Current regs: SHB p.10 That's good to hear. Nothing worse than something once found legal to use and in use by people, later being changed by the ROC to now be illegal. Of course the Rooster Shooter comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 The motivation I fear comes from the suggesting individual's current shotgun...and wanting to play outside of CC. Just a hunch... Phantom PS: I don't see Frontiersman being a category that needs any adjustment...certainly not the kind of adjustment that makes it that much more complex... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Henry Quick Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Sedalia Dave said: To quote several well know frontiersman shooters "LEAVE FRONTIERSMAN ALONE" What he said... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet James Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 44 minutes ago, John Henry Quick said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet James Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 said: Leave Frontiersman Alone What The Dawg said ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flinch Lock Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Well now how about a modern frontiersman with hammerless shotguns and roa's and any rifle after 73. And a traditional frontiersman with hammered or lever action shotguns and revolvers that are replicas of a original and rifles 60, 66, 73... hahaha Let it begin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 20 minutes ago, Flinch Lock said: Well now how about a modern frontiersman with hammerless shotguns and roa's and any rifle after 73. And a traditional frontiersman with hammered or lever action shotguns and revolvers that are replicas of a original and rifles 60, 66, 73... hahaha Let it begin Let's NOT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 For heaven's sake, leave it alone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 According to W.W. Greener, designer of Greener shotguns and author of “The Gun and its Development “, hammerless guns first appeared about 1862, and single trigger double barreled shotguns were patented in 1864. Therefore single triggered hammerless doubles are period correct. Leave Frontiersman Alone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Goldarned it... now I have to buy a hammerless shotgun? An arms race, for sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Monger Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 I don't understand what the point of changing the shotgun requirement would be. Hammers or no has nothing to do with how fast the smoke lets the target appear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 PLUS ONE to Prairie DAWG. Also >>>> PLUS ONE to the way HE SAID IT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Been screaming it for years. Glad to see I got company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond Curly SASS#57086 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 I have to agree: If it ain't broke, leave it alone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tucker McNeely Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 I’m in the “Leave Frontiersman Alone” movement. This is my new favorite category. I shoot hammered doubles because I want to. I think they’re neat. Not everyone else has to shoot them because I just started playing in frontiersman. I joined the frontiersman. They didn’t join me. I hope the RO Committee looks at this thread and stops as soon as they read PD’s post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Coconino Pistolero, SASS # 72432 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 15 hours ago, Ricochet James said: What The Dawg said ! And the Dawg is right goldurnit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cemetery Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 To quote a wise man: LEAVE. FRONTIERSMAN. ALONE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Sin Nombre Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Out of curiosity, what shotgun make and model would be appropriate for a Frontiersman? The hammered doubles were 1878. Hammerless were 1883 I think? What time period are most frontiersman going for? I can't remember the rules off hand, but are there rifle restrictions as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 5 minutes ago, Redwood Kid said: Out of curiosity, what shotgun make and model would be appropriate for a Frontiersman? The hammered doubles were 1878. Hammerless were 1883 I think? What time period are most frontiersman going for? I can't remember the rules off hand, but are there rifle restrictions as well? Pg 10: Quote Frontiersman Category Frontiersman Rules: - Any main match percussion revolver with fixed sights. - Revolvers must be shot Duelist or Double Duelist style. See Duelist description for required shooting technique. - Must use blackpowder in all loads (rifle, revolver, and shotgun). - Must use a side-by-side, single shot, or lever action shotgun in the main match stages. - Any SASS legal pistol caliber rifle is acceptable. Exceptions: - See “Sights” section of this handbook regarding “dovetail sights” - The 1873 Uberti percussion revolver is not allowed. As stated above I believe Hammerless doubles were available before 1878. I have no dog in the hunt really, but fully support my Frontiersman friends; LEAVE the Category ALONE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Sin Nombre Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said: Pg 10: As stated above I believe Hammerless doubles were available before 1878. I have no dog in the hunt really, but fully support my Frontiersman friends; LEAVE the Category ALONE. Excellent. Thanks. I love learning more about the old west, the guns and gear, and the real history. I completely missed that comment above with the information from Greener. And I actually own that book haha. So any main match rifle is allowed, which wouldn't make any sense to disallow certain shotguns. Yeah I also say Leave it alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 25 minutes ago, Redwood Kid said: Out of curiosity, what shotgun make and model would be appropriate for a Frontiersman? The hammered doubles were 1878. Hammerless were 1883 I think? What time period are most frontiersman going for? I can't remember the rules off hand, but are there rifle restrictions as well? For me, it's a TTN 1878 & an 1860 Henry Rifle. I like the early guns the most. But That's my preference. I don't want to make any new rules regarding rifle or shotgun. I'll never "win" unless I'm the only Frontiersman on the books. I really don't care about winning, I just wanna shoot well & have lotsa fun. I enjoy shooting cap guns I enjoy shooting Henry Rifles I enjoy shooting hammer doubles!!! --Dawg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Sin Nombre Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 said: For me, it's a TTN 1878 & an 1860 Henry Rifle. I like the early guns the most. But That's my preference. I don't want to make any new rules regarding rifle or shotgun. I'll never "win" unless I'm the only Frontiersman on the books. I really don't care about winning, I just wanna shoot well & have lotsa fun. I enjoy shooting cap guns I enjoy shooting Henry Rifles I enjoy shooting hammer doubles!!! --Dawg This kinda talk is deadly to my wallet. I like your combination and all I'm missing is the Henry so now I'm off to do some window shopping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusta B. Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 said: For me, it's a TTN 1878 & an 1860 Henry Rifle. I like the early guns the most. But That's my preference. I don't want to make any new rules regarding rifle or shotgun. I'll never "win" unless I'm the only Frontiersman on the books. I really don't care about winning, I just wanna shoot well & have lotsa fun. I enjoy shooting cap guns I enjoy shooting Henry Rifles I enjoy shooting hammer doubles!!! --Dawg But - truth be known - you really enjoy shooting with Dakota Skipper ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Yeppers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Frontiersman is the only category that is controlled as far as propellant, style of pistols and shooting method. You want to make it harder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
July Smith Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Even though I normally shoot Frontiersman and I almost always run a hammer shotgun I don’t want to see the category get any more rules. As far as historical accuracy C&B revolvers saw use well into the cartridge era. I think real frontiersmen were far more interested in getting a new rifle or shotgun and considered a C&B revolver as “good enough” for its intended use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Sin Nombre Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 9 minutes ago, July Smith said: Even though I normally shoot Frontiersman and I almost always run a hammer shotgun I don’t want to see the category get any more rules. As far as historical accuracy C&B revolvers saw use well into the cartridge era. I think real frontiersmen were far more interested in getting a new rifle or shotgun and considered a C&B revolver as “good enough” for its intended use. Probably some truth to that. We know Hickok used them up until his death. Lots of percussion pistols still exist today, handed down as family heirlooms. And plenty of folks also opted to have their pistols converted to cartridges rather than by the new peacemaker. Money was certainly a big reason, but I'm sure plenty of folks just really liked the guns they had and felt comfortable with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 LEAVE EVERYTHING ALONE!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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