Loading table etiquette vs. the rules

[Shooting Bull]

Two steps back.

 

Give me 3 steps give me 3 steps mr and you won't see me no more.

 

 

Philly shoots Duelist. So if we are ever at a shoot at the same time.

I am going to be watching him like a hawk to see just how many steps and how big they are.

Need to DQ him so he don't beat me.

 

I have a feeling that if you and I ever shoot a match together we'll end up tied for last from laughing so much.

[Shooting Bull]

I am confused (again). I just clicked on the RO I booklet and there are only 30 pages????

 

What am I doing wrong now???

 

Chancy

 

 

You're taking those folks seriously, that's what you're doing wrong.

 

(Their veiled point is, there's no such rule. )

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

Sure glad no one has ever started a loading table/loading table officer pet peeves thread. Might set a record for the most pages ever.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

I hate to seem like an Idiot, but the last page of the current RO1 manual posted on SASSNET.com is Version “M”.3 which only has 30 pages. There are two statements on the subject, copied below, but I do not find an associated penalty specified that just covers wandering away, especially noting a specific distance (eg., one step). Also, the penalty is very specific about the guns condition. It does not mention anything about a hammer down on an empty cyl. as warranting a penalty.

 

"G) Never allow a competitor to leave the loading table with a loaded firearm unless they are proceeding directly to the stage or expeditor position."

 

"36. Competitors shall not leave the designated loading area with a loaded firearm unless they are proceeding to the stage as the next competitor to begin the stage."

 

The pocket RO Card contains the following statement as a SDQ: "Changing location or leaving the designated loading area with a cocked gun/gun w/hammer down on live round" Why is the hammer down comment so specific?

 

Could someone provide the penalty chapter and verse using the current manuals?

 

Stage Disqualification

...

...

• Failure to adhere to loading and unloading procedures.

RO1 p.25

Pocket RO Card (RO1 p.28)

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

Sure glad no one has ever started a loading table/loading table officer pet peeves thread. Might set a record for the most pages ever.

 

Since some clubs seem to be mighty proud of the fact that they don't use LTO's, the thread would likely be shorter than you think.

[Wyatt]

I was just reviewing the RO III handbook and it covers this very topic on page 21

 

10 light-nanoseconds away for the LT is acceptable but 11 light-nanoseconds is a MDQ

[Blastmaster]

I am more peeved with the majority of the possee at the loading table than a person that is several steps away from the table.

 

Just me!!

[Waimea]

I was just reviewing the RO III handbook and it covers this very topic on page 21

 

10 light-nanoseconds away for the LT is acceptable but 11 light-nanoseconds is a MDQ

 

 

:lol:

 

 

Waimea

 

[Waimea]

Pages 31 to 33 are listed below.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As you can plainly see, it is one step.

 

Musta used white ink on white paper.

 

It's an old trick.

 

 

Waimea

 

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

I was just reviewing the RO III handbook and it covers this very topic on page 21

 

10 light-nanoseconds away for the LT is acceptable but 11 light-nanoseconds is a MDQ

Ten light-nanoseconds is too far - that's about 30 meters. Two light-nanoseconds is all I allow myself.

[Cowboy Junky]

If it's a small table and the person is making room (I do that all the time) I would SURE HOPE people aren't so anal that they would call someone on that. It should be easily summed up by the intent of the shooter. If they are walking away or trying to get to a nearby gun cart to get something.....then that another thing altogether.

[Henry T Harrison]

This is just an example of how silly rules can get, you want to DQ a shooter for walking
away from the loading table with his revolvers securely holstered yet minutes
after the match the same shooter straps on his loaded carry gun and wanders all over
the place with no penalty. We have a freaking fit about someone sweeping
another shooter with a broken open shotgun yet that same person having a fit
will sit down for lunch with his loaded pocket pistol sweeping everyone in the
place with a loaded gun.

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

Seems to me there is a step and a STEP!

[Anvil Al #59168]

I have a feeling that if you and I ever shoot a match together we'll end up tied for last from laughing so much.

 

 

If that is why we are last. It would be great with me. Hope to do it someday.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

Another reason to keep your pistols on the table till called to the firing line....

No...it really isn't.

 

[Lone Dog, SASS #20401]

PW it's not so much that some clubs are exactly "proud" of not having LTOs. I hate that we don't but I hate the reason even more. Low attendance is a real bane. I would love it if we had the luxury of having enuff folks to man that position. 3 weeks ago we had 14 which made for a nice perfect size posse. Thru long habit we still didn't utilize an LTO. 2 weeks ago we had 8. No way to have the luxury of an LTO but we did still ususally have an ULTO. Last Saturday we had 6 and didn't even have the luxury of an ULTO. Or feel the need to have one as we were all long-timers (of course if we would have had a newbie, we woulda watched him/her right close. Wish we could staff both positions all the time but it is what it is. Out here in the wide open spaces it can get lonely...We once had a shoot with 3...

 

What gets me like BM says is when everybody wants to load at once at the start of a stage. You look over at the LT and half or better of the posse is standing there with their long guns perched on their boot tops. ??

 

Oh yeah, the penalty is fully expounded on in the RO III book.

[Wasatch Lawman]

Deleted..........Telling self.. self be nice

[Diamond S Doug]

I hate to seem like an Idiot, but the last page of the current RO1 manual posted on SASSNET.com is Version “M”.3 which only has 30 pages. There are two statements on the subject, copied below, but I do not find an associated penalty specified that just covers wandering away, especially noting a specific distance (eg., one step). Also, the penalty is very specific about the guns condition. It does not mention anything about a hammer down on an empty cyl. as warranting a penalty.

"G) Never allow a competitor to leave the loading table with a loaded firearm unless they
are proceeding directly to the stage or expeditor position."

"36. Competitors shall not leave the designated loading area with a loaded firearm unless they are
proceeding to the stage as the next competitor to begin the stage."

The pocket RO Card contains the following statement as a SDQ: "Changing location or leaving the designated loading area with a cocked gun/gun w/hammer down on live round" Why is the hammer down comment so specific? Because everyone SHOULD leave the designated loading area with a hammer down on an EMPTY cylinder when moving to the stage.

Could someone provide the penalty chapter and verse using the current manuals? PW covered this one

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

 

you want to DQ a shooter for walking

away from the loading table with his revolvers securely holstered yet minutes

after the match the same shooter straps on his loaded carry gun and wanders all over

the place with no penalty. We have a freaking fit about someone sweeping

another shooter with a broken open shotgun yet that same person having a fit

will sit down for lunch with his loaded pocket pistol sweeping everyone in the

place with a loaded gun.

SASS policy is a COLD RANGE. If someone has a loaded pocket pistol at the SASS range area over lunch, it is a Match DQ at the major events I have shot. If he has a loaded pocket pistol at Mary's Meet and Greet Restaurant after the event, then he is not on the SASS range, and local, or state laws will govern his behavior.

 

Try setting up range insurance policies and you will come to understand that the insurance providers drive some of this rule situation. Likewise, a SINCERE desire by EVERYONE involved that we not have ANY participants shot during SASS events is a big driver.

 

It seems to have been working pretty well for the last twenty years. We have one of the best safety records of any of the shooting sports, which are themselves so much safer than any other sports, it is amazing. Let's not knock it too much.

 

Good luck, GJ

[Buck D. Law, SASS #62183]

RO1 ends at page 30. Any reference to a higher numbered page is a way of joking about how people come to believe certain things are rules...when in fact they're not. Griff correcting my page number from 33 to 31...is an extension of the joke. These non-rules are the cowboy version of urban legends. Like Bigfoot, they're fairly commonly believed but never seen (in print.)

 

References to RO3 (or ROIII) are the same joke presented differently. There isn't an RO3 manual.

 

And all this reminds me of another common misnomer: Some seem to think that RO Instructors are RO3's when there is no such thing. Also, the same RO Instructors are mistakenly referred to as "black badges" when in fact once someone becomes an RO Instructor, they receive a pin (not a badge) that looks like the other RO pins, but is black. It's my understanding that if you win EOT overall, you get a black badge. I've never seen one, so I can't speak to the accuracy of that. Anyway, "black pins" are not "black badges."

 

For the benefit of everyone: There is a movement to begin using the number instead of the Roman numeral when referring to RO1 and RO2. It simply reads much easier than ROI and ROII.

[Noz]

So, if I have deciphered the cutesy stuff correctly, there is no penalty listed for wandering around the area with loaded pistols holstered with hammer down on an empty chamber?

[J-BAR #18287]

So, if I have deciphered the cutesy stuff correctly, there is no penalty listed for wandering around the area with loaded pistols holstered with hammer down on an empty chamber?

 

 

Geez, big brother...you really like to stir the pot don't you!!

[Buck D. Law, SASS #62183]

So, if I have deciphered the cutesy stuff correctly, there is no penalty listed for wandering around the area with loaded pistols holstered with hammer down on an empty chamber?

I'd say use your noggin. If anyone but the severely anal thinks you've wandered away from the loading table, you probably have. It seems to me (that's code for my opinion) the intent is to insure that someone doesn't forget they're loaded and head off into never never land where folks (and you) would assume you're not loaded. Once you're loaded, you're not to leave the firing line. You can't go to never never land or la la land.

[Griff]

So, if I have deciphered the cutesy stuff correctly, there is no penalty listed for wandering around the area with loaded pistols holstered with hammer down on an empty chamber?

Depends on "how far" you wander... too far and it's a SDQ. And since "far" is undefined and a matter of opinion, "too far" might vary a wee bit, depending on location, attendees, attitudes, and factors outside your control or ken (used in the Scottish or Old English version, meaning "can know"). Like many, I use the "arm's length" measure for my own purposes, generally speaking, a ½ step or even a full step depending on how crowded the table is.

 

In short, what Buck said.

[Noz]

I'd say use your noggin. If anyone but the severely anal thinks you've wandered away from the loading table, you probably have. It seems to me (that's code for my opinion) the intent is to insure that someone doesn't forget they're loaded and head off into never never land where folks (and you) would assume you're not loaded. Once you're loaded, you're not to leave the firing line. You can't go to never never land or la la land.

So what if you see someone wandering around with loaded pistols. SDQ-MDQ or a really nasty frown?

[Buck D. Law, SASS #62183]

So what if you see someone wandering around with loaded pistols. SDQ-MDQ or a really nasty frown?

See post #39.

[Tuco Taveras SASS#79313]

Another reason to keep your pistols on the table till called to the firing line....

bad idea........more guns in the way.......on the table to move half a dozen times...........more likely to drop a pistol off the table than a long gun......just plain bad for the 5 other people playin musical guns at the LT......GEEZE.......

[Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator]

 

 

Got to disagree with that. They are safer in my holsters thank you very much.

 

How far is to far form the table?

 

To me. If you can not reach out and touch it with your hand. You are starting to get to far.

two steps???? How big a step is it???

+1.......I want my revolvers in my holsters unless there is some sort of range rule aganst it and do not like such a rule if it exists. IMHO, Relovers on table take up room and can produce more unsafe events than in my holster where they belong.

 

I agree common sense is the key to distance.

[Captain Bill Burt]

+1.......I want my revolvers in my holsters unless there is some sort of range rule aganst it and do not like such a rule if it exists. IMHO, Relovers on table take up room and can produce more unsafe events than in my holster where they belong.

 

I agree common sense is the key to distance.

+1

[Buck D. Law, SASS #62183]

IMO, placing pistols on the table instead of in holsters is sort of like handing off a malfunctioning gun: It sounds like a good idea until you think about it long enough to realize that there are better options. Pistols in holsters. Ground a malfunctioning gun. Less handling in both cases.

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

The Eldorado Cowboys are addressing this topic as "The allowed distance is such that an aware shooter would recognize as safe and prudent"

 

This allows swift response to the unaware/ unthinking shooter who starts to wander around or heads off to their cart, while allowing reasonable latitude to the safe and aware shooter simply stepping away from the table to make room or allow clearance.

[Grizzly Dave]

Between this thread and the loading table routine thread, it's clear that we all have a pretty set routine. When we shoot somewhere else that may have different practices or policies, that can throw us out of our routine. Practices that are different, are not wrong or right often, just different. The key is to not let it distract you to the point where you are not focused on the task at hand.

 

For example, if a club has a policy that pistols stay on the table til called to the line, I'll follow it. Don't agree with it, not in favor of it, but I'll follow it, and it's not really that big a deal. Unless I drop a loaded gun for a MDQ like the last time I left pistols on the table after loading.

[Henry T Harrison]

Lets think about this. I go to the loading table load my pistols, holster and put the
hammer thongs on. Then I remember I forgot my shooting glasses. Which is safer?
Unholstering both pistols and returning them to the loading table while I go to
my cart and then reholstering or simply walking back to my cart and retrieving my
glasses. It seems like handling loaded guns more than necessary is not the best option

[Cypress Sun]

 

 

Lets think about this. I go to the loading table load my pistols, holster and put the

hammer thongs on. Then I remember I forgot my shooting glasses. Which is safer?

Unholstering both pistols and returning them to the loading table while I go to

my cart and then reholstering or simply walking back to my cart and retrieving my

glasses. It seems like handling loaded guns more than necessary is not the best option

 

 

 

 

Hmmm, which is safer? I would think that putting them on the loading table is safer, then walk the 10 to 20' to your cart and then come back. The rules are the rules, someone with better foresight than I put them in place. I'll follow them regardless if I agree with them or not.

 

I really gotta wonder why you didn't have your glasses on to begin with. They can replace damn near everything on your body.......except your eyesight.

 

CS

[Matthew Duncan]

Just for you right-handers that do everything backwards...

 

...LT table is on the left, stage in the middle and ULT on the right.

 

Load '66 and place beside SxS. Load pistols, get approval from the LTO and then holster pistols. When the right side of the LT is empty I move my long guns to the far right. I stand to the right of the table to give the next Loader "elbow" room. As I stand there waiting to be called my left hand is ALWAYS touching the butt of my '66. Am I standing close enough to the table for y'all?