Loading table etiquette vs. the rules

[Shooting Bull]

I'm not a small person. When I'm at the loading table I like some elbow room so I don't feel like I'm in a broom closet while loading my guns. I really appreciate it when folks in front of me who already have their guns loaded take a step away from the table to allow room for the folks behind them. I return the favor by doing the same thing. Did I mention I'm not a small person? For that reason I usually take 1 1/2 to 2 steps away.

 

I was at a shoot recently and was standing in my normal position waiting my turn to shoot when I was told I was opening myself up for an SDQ by being more than one step away from the loading table with my loaded pistols in their holsters. I wasn't going anywhere, just standing there waiting to shoot. But I was more than one step away from the table. Hmmmmmm.

 

I've asked the question and gotten the answer from Pale Wolf himself but, I'm going to open this up to the masses, what's your call? Was I in fact committing an SDQ offense? Why or why not?

 

P.S. The shooter who told me that was VERY polite and simply trying to keep me from getting a penalty. As always, I'm grateful that we have shooters who look out for each other. One of the many things that make our sport the best.

[Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884]

Where does it say one step?

 

Fillmore

[Hacker, SASS #55963]

Personally, I doubt that you would draw a SDQ for being a 1/2 step further than a step away.

The intent of any rule in this area is to keep a shooter from wandering back to his gun cart with loaded firearms.

A step is a vague measure anyway. Clearly a shooter with loaded revolvers at his gun cart yards away has earned the SDQ.

 

Another consideration here is just how many shooters should/must be ready to shoot at any given time.

This would tend to depend upon the amount of time it takes to clear/reset a stage and to shoot it versus the time it takes to load the rifle and revolvers.

 

I just check my copy of both SH and RO1 and neither set any distance.

 

My 2 cents worth.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

No Call. If you really start heading for a cart, with revolvers in your leather, I'll call you back and remind you, not slap you with an SDQ, unless you decide to test the waters by ignoring that reminder.

 

When we are on the range, let's shoot, not pick rules to pieces.

 

Good luck, GJ

[J-BAR #18287]

I keep one hand on the loading table at all times. It seems to satisfy those who are concerned about such things.

[Grizzly Dave]

Oh heck yeah, seeing as how it was you, SDQ followed by tar and feathers.

 

No call.

[Buck D. Law, SASS #62183]

A good dose of common sense goes a long way.

 

 

The one step rule is on page 33 of RO1.

[Buckshot Dobbs]

Thank you Garrison Joe!...I recently went to my first match and I was at the 5th stage...had a great day, and I commited this offense. The guy watching the loading table freaked and instead of correcting me quietly, he screamed for the whole match to hear and basically made everyone stop what they were doing to publicly correct me to remind the whole posse of this rule, which I was unfamialiar with of course since I was new. I am sure I had read it in the rulebook, but regardless, I was mortified at that moment and that occurrence will probably keep my wife from ever joining the sport. She was there and she would have been so embarrassed she would never shoot again had this happened to her.

[Guest Texican Bounty Hunter]

Another reason to keep your pistols on the table till called to the firing line....

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

A good dose of common sense goes a long way.

 

 

The one step rule is on page 33 of RO1.

I'll bet ole Philly can take one pretty good sized step.

 

And, they way you handled it sounds like a very Cowboy thing to do. Neither person had to get their feathers ruffled.

 

GJ

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

That other shooter just wanted you closer for the SHADE is all ....

LG

[Grizzly Dave]

I holster my pistols after checked. Well, one match, for some reason I left them on the table. Then when I went to holster one of them the barrel caught on the table and it twirled out of my hand and on to the ground, MDQ.

 

After that I seldom leave pistols on the table, and if I do, I'm dang careful when I go to holster them.

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Thank you Garrison Joe!...I recently went to my first match and I was at the 5th stage...had a great day, and I commited this offense. The guy watching the loading table freaked and instead of correcting me quietly, he screamed for the whole match to hear and basically made everyone stop what they were doing to publicly correct me to remind the whole posse of this rule, which I was unfamialiar with of course since I was new. I am sure I had read it in the rulebook, but regardless, I was mortified at that moment and that occurrence will probably keep my wife from ever joining the sport. She was there and she would have been so embarrassed she would never shoot again had this happened to her.

Hi Buckshot Dobbs,

 

This is so sad. Please try to get your wife to shoot. Most SASS shooters would not treat a new shooter (nor an experienced one) like that. Don't let "one bad apple spoil the barrel." I had a very bad experience my first year shooting and grew to adore the person, who in a fit of anger struck out at me. If it isn't an isolated experience with that person, just avoid him/her as the rest of us try to help new folks, not embarrass them.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

[Anvil Al #59168]

Another reason to keep your pistols on the table till called to the firing line....

 

 

Got to disagree with that. They are safer in my holsters thank you very much.

 

How far is to far form the table?

 

To me. If you can not reach out and touch it with your hand. You are starting to get to far.

two steps???? How big a step is it???

[Cypress Sun]

I'll normally take 1 or even 2 steps away from the table. I'll stay within 3' or so from the table with pistols holstered with rifle/shotgun on the table. As far as I know, there is no set distance or parameters in the rules.

 

If the LTO wants to be a hardass, I guess I could sit on the table facing him.......just so I don't get too far away.

 

CS

[Griff]

The one step rule is on page 31 of RO1.

There, fixed that for ya! As are a good many other "Rules."

Hi Buckshot Dobbs,

This is so sad. Please try to get your wife to shoot. Most SASS shooters would not treat a new shooter (nor an experienced one) like that. Don't let "one bad apple spoil the barrel." I had a very bad experience my first year shooting and grew to adore the person, who in a fit of anger struck out at me. If it isn't an isolated experience with that person, just avoid him/her as the rest of us try to help new folks, not embarrass them.

Regards,

Allie Mo

+1

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Reminds me recently when I was at the LT and started loading my 1st pistol. After I put 5 rounds in it and showed the LT that nothing was under the hammer, a pard next to me informed me that I wasn't suppose to do it 'that' way.

 

I said 'what way'?

 

they said: "you are suppose to show the LTO that your pistol was empty first before loading it".

 

I said: "NOPE! NO such rule. I showed the ULTO that it was empty. It IS NOT a requirement at the LT and I wish people would stop making up 'their' rules".

 

end of discusssion.

 

If someone said this to me any other time during a match, I would have answered politely with the same answer. BUT, I hate it when I'm at the LT and people start distracting you with crap like this.

 

..........Widder

[Buck D. Law, SASS #62183]

I'll bet ole Philly can take one pretty good sized step.

 

And, they way you handled it sounds like a very Cowboy thing to do. Neither person had to get their feathers ruffled.

 

GJ

I say we give Philly a Jake Spoon hanging. You know, where you put him on a horse with rope around his neck and give the horse a good smack on the rump. Do you know where we can get a really tall horse?

[Hoss]

I've seen a lot of disparity of loading table practices. Some clubs want you to show the next shooter that your pistols are properly loaded. Others not so much. Some clubs it seems what you to holster up when you are next shooter. I generally wait until at least the previous shooter is finished. Others don't want you to holster until called to the firing line. An ounce or 2 of common sense goes a long way. Certainly dont want folks going off to thier cart or the outhouse or wherever with loaded guns in holster, but also want them to be ready to go when its their turn. An extra 30 seconds per shooter turns into about 45 minustes over a 6 stage match. Unless I felt somebody was wandering away, with loaded pistols, I doubt I would say anything. a step or 2, or even 3 would not concern me, especially if they were doing it to give others room, and were obviously not going anywhere.

 

Like Widder says, unless it is an obvious safety situation, distracting somebody at the loading table is not the way to handle this. Personally, discussing things at the loading table does not really bother me, but I know lots of folks who are "getting their game face on" and dont want to be talked to at all.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Thanks Hoss.

 

One of the things it does is mess up your round count. You start putting 9 or 10 in the rifle as designated by the stage scenerio and when you get to 5, somebody says something about your hat or pistols or SG.

 

I normally don't carry a REAL serious game face to the line but because we have a big responsibility to ensure our guns are loaded correctly, the LT is the one place that should be treated kinda like Hallowed ground, unless as you stated, a safety issue is obvious.

 

Thats just my .02

 

..........Widder

[Marshal Chance Morgun]

The guy watching the loading table freaked and instead of correcting me quietly, he screamed for the whole match to hear and basically made everyone stop what they were doing to publicly correct me to remind the whole posse of this rule....

Funny how people react. My first year in the sport, I was working the loading table. I got talking to someone and didn't notice a shooter walk away from the table w/ loaded pistols. When he returned, I quietly told him about the infraction and that he could be DQ'ed for it. He barked out, "So what do you want to do, disqualify me?" I told him that I was only mentioning it so it did not happen again. Instead of thanking me, he complained to a friend, who sided with him and stated that if anyone should be DQ'ed, it was me, because I let him do it.

[Blastmaster]

To small a LT or...

 

To many people on LT at same time, or....

 

Both!

 

 

[Captain Bill Burt]

LOL, I would have SDQed him right there and let him work it out with the PM or the MD.

[Hoss]

i use loading blocks for that very reason. I can't count to 10 without taking off my boots! I've seen shooters come to the line with a ziplock bag full of bullets, and load from there. I would lose track, no telling how many I woulkd stuff in the rifle!

 

BTW, really cheap loading strips can be made from a cinch latigo, available at any western store. cut it about a foot long, drill 3/8 holes (for 38s) in it and there you go. You can make 6+ for about $25. I make 2 rows of 5 for my rifle, skip down a couple of inches, and 2 5 hole star patterns for my revolvers. put a piece of rawhide on it for a hanger, and when finised with it, either stuff it in your back pocket or under your gunbelt in back. I also use wood ones, like them a little better, but they are 25+ apiece to buy, and I aint handy enough with saws and whatnot to make them myself.

 

I have 6 loading blocks/strips, I load them up at home the night before, just one less thing to have to worry about at the match.

[Waco Jim]

A good dose of common sense goes a long way.

 

 

The one step rule is on page 33 of RO1.

 

 

I reckon so!

[Waimea]

Thank you Garrison Joe!...I recently went to my first match and I was at the 5th stage...had a great day, and I commited this offense. The guy watching the loading table freaked and instead of correcting me quietly, he screamed for the whole match to hear and basically made everyone stop what they were doing to publicly correct me to remind the whole posse of this rule, which I was unfamialiar with of course since I was new. I am sure I had read it in the rulebook, but regardless, I was mortified at that moment and that occurrence will probably keep my wife from ever joining the sport. She was there and she would have been so embarrassed she would never shoot again had this happened to her.

 

That's too bad. Nothing like a harda$$ to ruin everybody's day.

 

I remember when I first started Cowboy Action Shooting Cypress Sun was LTO.

One of the cowboys managed to wander away from the loading table to his guncart with his loaded revolvers.

Not a lot gets passed Sun so I'm pretty sure he was busy answering one of my 193 questions.

 

Sun did not make a big deal about it.

Just called the cowboy over and told him that he was gonna have to give him an SDQ.

Cowboy asked why. Sun just pointed to the loaded holstered guns.

I had no idea what had just happened so he explained it to me.

The cowboy unloaded and took it well.

No issues, no hurt feelings, no embarrasment.

 

That's the way it SHOULD work.

 

 

Waimea

 

[Hoss]

I've seen a couple of stage DQs for dropped guns, and 1 MDQ for dropped loaded gun. The guy with the MDQ was 100% apologetic, and a true sport. He took his guns to the cart, came back and did posse chores the rest of the day. I learned a lot from him that day. If I ever earn a MDQ I hope to handle it as well. I know nobody wants to "give" a MDQ or even a SDQ, they are earned by the shooter.

[Noz]

What's the penalty for "over 1 step" ?

[Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655]

Not having read Page 33 lately I would submit It kinda depends on what the definition of a step is. Push come to shove to avoid a stage dq I can prolly manage a 40 + inch step to demonstrate compliance when allowing room for a pard who girth rivals mine

[Anvil Al #59168]

What's the penalty for "over 1 step" ?

 

Two steps back.

 

Give me 3 steps give me 3 steps mr and you won't see me no more.

 

 

Philly shoots Duelist. So if we are ever at a shoot at the same time.

I am going to be watching him like a hawk to see just how many steps and how big they are.

Need to DQ him so he don't beat me.

[Brother King, SASS #69031]

I'm gonna be watchin' all Classic Cowboys, too. That Tbone been gettin' away with steppin' I just know it. Probably his secret secret is steppin'. Cowhand....he's not all that tall so you know that step is probably more than he deserves. Hell, the two of 'em probably in cahoots with Nuttin' and been studying just how to spring step with a kick back throw down ninja step move.

 

Don't have to worry about ol' Ghost's step, but that rangey bugger called me on a minor holster error that cost me big time so I'm watching him anyway

 

Hell, there's a whole list of 'em and I'm ready for them now. Take two steps and I got 'em. Won't even have to fire a shot!

[Chancy Shot, SASS #67163]

A good dose of common sense goes a long way.

 

 

The one step rule is on page 33 of RO1.

 

 

I reckon so!

 

A good dose of common sense goes a long way.

 

 

The one step rule is on page 33 of RO1.

I am confused (again). I just clicked on the RO I booklet and there are only 30 pages????

 

What am I doing wrong now???

 

Chancy

[Yusta B.]

Their way of sayin the rule don't exist ..........

[Church Key, SASS # 33713]

I hate to seem like an Idiot, but the last page of the current RO1 manual posted on SASSNET.com is Version “M”.3 which only has 30 pages. There are two statements on the subject, copied below, but I do not find an associated penalty specified that just covers wandering away, especially noting a specific distance (eg., one step). Also, the penalty is very specific about the guns condition. It does not mention anything about a hammer down on an empty cyl. as warranting a penalty.

 

"G) Never allow a competitor to leave the loading table with a loaded firearm unless they

are proceeding directly to the stage or expeditor position."

 

"36. Competitors shall not leave the designated loading area with a loaded firearm unless they are

proceeding to the stage as the next competitor to begin the stage."

 

The pocket RO Card contains the following statement as a SDQ: "Changing location or leaving the designated loading area with a cocked gun/gun w/hammer down on live round" Why is the hammer down comment so specific?

 

Could someone provide the penalty chapter and verse using the current manuals?

[Cypress Sun]

Pages 31 to 33 are listed below.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As you can plainly see, it is one step.