Question about a particular sweep: WTC

[Widder, SASS #59054]

There are 5 targets each for both pistol and rifle

 

Instructions:   with first 5 shots..... sweep the 5 targets.   With remaining 5 shots, Nevada Sweep the 3 INSIDE targets.

 

My question:  Unless specified in the instructions as to which target the Nevada Sweep begins, can the shooter

rightfully start their Nevada Sweep on the CENTER target?

 

Basically, this would mean the sweep would be 3-4-3-2-3.  (or, 3-2-3-4-3). depending upon which direction the shooter chooses.

 

I would say 'YES',   but some folks have told me in the past that a Nevada Sweep 'HAS' to start on an end target.

 

Remember, the instructions didn't declare which of those 3 inside targets the sweep started.   BUT, the instructions did

refer to the sweep as 'NEVADA'.    

 

 

..........Widder

 

Edited April 21 by Widder, SASS #59054

[Crisco]

Around here you can start a Nevada sweep in the middle unless otherwise specified, but I have heard that other places call that an entirely different sweep.  

[Grizzly Dave]

NIce!  Well done Widder!

 

Where I'm from, typically it would be worded either 'starting on either end' (if it was required to start on either end) or 'starting on any target' if you could start on any target.

 

Absent any of that verbage, anything goes that fits within 'Nevada sweep'

 

Unless of course something was covered in the walk thru or stage reading by the PM.

 

I'm thinking a nevada sweep on 3 starting in the middle by a double cocking gunfighter sounds like a hoot.

[Equanimous Phil]

3 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

the sweep would be 3-4-3-2-3.  (or, 3-2-3-4-3)

We'd call that a Sassy Sue Sweep.

 

There is no official SASS library that defines sweeps and sweep names can vary from region to region. If you want to assign a P for a wrong target order in a 'Nevada Sweep' you need to reference the SHB. Stage instructions need to be concise. So, always write down target order (2-3-4-3-2 or 4-3-2-4), too. 

 

But until today, I probably would have given a P if someone started a Nevada Sweep not on one end of the target array... 

Edited April 21 by Equanimous Phil

[Matthew Duncan]

5 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

I would say 'YES',   but some folks have told me in the past that a Nevada Sweep 'HAS' to start on an end target.

 

I’d agree with you.  

[Rye Miles #13621]

I agree with you Widder, unless it’s specified you could start the Nevada sweep on the center. 

[Silver Creek Jack]

Yep , centers fine unless specified otherwise!

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

As written, no P.

[El Hombre]

Yes

[John Kloehr]

7 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

My question:  Unless specified in the instructions as to which target the Nevada Sweep begins, can the shooter

rightfully start their Nevada Sweep on the CENTER target?

Found this question has come up before, here is a thread from just over 10 years ago:

 

 

Shortest best answer back then was to specify shooting order separately from the name. But also found some history for the sweep in this older thread so thought I would share it.

[Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L]

we shot this last week--fun and a nice change

 

short answer = yes

[Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329]

Nevada Sweep is back-and-forth on the included targets with no double-taps.

Shooter did that, so it is OK -- no "P"

FWIW, in Ohio, we frequently do a Nevada Sweep starting on any target.

--Dawg 

[Griff]

3 hours ago, Silver Creek Jack said:

Yep , centers fine unless specified otherwise!

Yep.  In your case, "some folks" would need a refresher RO course.

[Sedalia Dave]

 No P

[SGT. ELI 35882 GUNFIGHTER]

Yes. No beginning target specified.

[Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life]

Just curious why you would do it that way (starting on center). Seems to me it would be smoother to shoot 1-2-3-4-5, then 4-3-2-3-4 turning it into essentially a continuous sweep across the entire array. One of my personal struggles is to skip targets to get to another, in this case jumping either 4 or 2 to get to the middle target. 
But getting back to your question I would say, absent other instructions starting on the center would be fine, no P. 
Regards

    

Gateway Kid

[Captain Bill Burt]

9 minutes ago, Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life said:

Just curious why you would do it that way (starting on center). Seems to me it would be smoother to shoot 1-2-3-4-5, then 4-3-2-3-4 turning it into essentially a continuous sweep across the entire array. One of my personal struggles is to skip targets to get to another, in this case jumping either 4 or 2 to get to the middle target. 
But getting back to your question I would say, absent other instructions starting on the center would be fine, no P. 
Regards

    

Gateway Kid

It’s hard to follow gunfighter logic!

[Rance - SASS # 54090]

Around here it would be tough NOT to call a P..
But I see yer logic if sequence isn’t stated

 

[John Kloehr]

10 hours ago, Grizzly Dave said:

I'm thinking a nevada sweep on 3 starting in the middle by a double cocking gunfighter sounds like a hoot.

 

1 hour ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

It’s hard to follow gunfighter logic!

Never shot gunfighter. Would not have thought it would make a difference. Did a mental exercise. Nevada sweep on 3 plates...

 

First starting on plate 1. For each pair of shots, first shot is to an outside plate:

12   32  12  32  12

LR RL LR RL LR

Each pair always starts on alternating end plates, ends on plate 2.

 

Start on middle plate?

21   23  21  23  21

RL LR RL LR RL

Each pair starts on plate 2. That does sound fun.

 

My brain gave up on thinking about and comparing other sequences like:

21  23  21   23  21

RL LR RL LR RL

 

I'm leaning towards specified start plate if desired, but also to give consideration to not specifying one just to see how different shooters "solve the problem."

[Captain Bill Burt]

1 hour ago, John Kloehr said:

 

Never shot gunfighter. Would not have thought it would make a difference. Did a mental exercise. Nevada sweep on 3 plates...

 

First starting on plate 1. For each pair of shots, first shot is to an outside plate:

12   32  12  32  12

LR RL LR RL LR

Each pair always starts on alternating end plates, ends on plate 2.

 

Start on middle plate?

21   23  21  23  21

RL LR RL LR RL

Each pair starts on plate 2. That does sound fun.

 

My brain gave up on thinking about and comparing other sequences like:

21  23  21   23  21

RL LR RL LR RL

 

I'm leaning towards specified start plate if desired, but also to give consideration to not specifying one just to see how different shooters "solve the problem."

For many it may not make difference, but speaking only for myself if I’m thinking about what I’m gonna shoot next then I’m shooting too slow.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

For a 3 plate Nevada Sweep, a GUNFIGHTER could anchor their left (or right) pistol on the center plate (P2) for 1st shot, 3rd and 5th shot.

The other pistol would only have to shoot 2nd shot on P3 and then 4th shot on P1.   Or similar depending on which direction they

choose to go.

 

 

..........Widder

 

[Carolina Gunslinger]

So what's the call on calling a call before PWB gets here and closes the thread? 

Great to see you Widder. Still working on rifles? 

Edited April 21 by Carolina Gunslinger

[Hells Comin]

1 hour ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

For a 3 plate Nevada Sweep, a GUNFIGHTER could anchor their left (or right) pistol on the center plate (P2) for 1st shot, 3rd and 5th shot.

The other pistol would only have to shoot 2nd shot on P3 and then 4th shot on P1.   Or similar depending on which direction they

choose to go.

 

 

..........Widder

 

This why I shoot traditional. 

[Uncle Ethan # 94321]

This is why I ask before shooting the stage.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

49 minutes ago, Carolina Gunslinger said:

So what's the call on calling a call before PWB gets here and closes the thread? 

Great to see you Widder. Still working on rifles? 

 

44 minutes ago, Hells Comin said:

This why I shoot traditional. 

 

CG:  I basically retired from Marlin work and Henry .22 work about 4 years back when I had my heart surgery.

A fellow shooter, friend, neighbor and gunsmith... SLATER, is now officially working on Marlins and the Henry .22

Thanks for asking.

 

HC:  anybody that can master a 97 like you is probably never confused about anything..... 

Looks like you and Red Knee are gonna make me handle those speedsters from New Mexico, all by

meowndangself at the TN State this summer.   Wish me luck....... LOTS of luck.  

 

..........Widder

 

[Hells Comin]

53 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

Looks like you and Red Knee are gonna make me handle those speedsters from New Mexico, all by

meowndangself at the TN State this summer.   Wish me luck....... LOTS of luck.  

 

..........Widder

 

Luck won't do it ! Prayin- plus u need to be 60+ years younger.

[Krazy Kajun]

17 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

There are 5 targets each for both pistol and rifle

 

Instructions:   with first 5 shots..... sweep the 5 targets.   With remaining 5 shots, Nevada Sweep the 3 INSIDE targets.

 

My question:  Unless specified in the instructions as to which target the Nevada Sweep begins, can the shooter

rightfully start their Nevada Sweep on the CENTER target?

 

Basically, this would mean the sweep would be 3-4-3-2-3.  (or, 3-2-3-4-3). depending upon which direction the shooter chooses.

 

I would say 'YES',   but some folks have told me in the past that a Nevada Sweep 'HAS' to start on an end target.

 

Remember, the instructions didn't declare which of those 3 inside targets the sweep started.   BUT, the instructions did

refer to the sweep as 'NEVADA'.    

 

 

..........Widder

 

Before we can make the call we have to know.....were any chickens harmed in this stage?  If ole TW was holding the timer....it'd shade the outcome if some feathers....or legs flew. TW's Shooter's Handbook is one of a kind...the only one with a Chicken Codicil. 

 

Kajun

Edited April 21 by Krazy Kajun

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

4 hours ago, Carolina Gunslinger said:

So what's the call on calling a call before PWB gets here and closes the thread? 

 

 

Since there is no "SHB definition" for the named sweep, the reply I posted on the linked 2013 thread still stands.

 

Y'all can beat this horse into a bloody mess forever as far as I'm concerned. 

 

[Hells Comin]

OK they will. 

[Carolina Gunslinger]

42 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

Since there is no "SHB definition" for the named sweep, the reply I posted on the linked 2013 thread still stands.

 

Y'all can beat this horse into a bloody mess forever as far as I'm concerned. 

 

 Just to be punny, "Spank you very much!" 

[Hells Comin]

So who  says a Nevada sweep is over and back on 3 targets. Why not a  1-3-1 Nevada sweep. Don't say intent of stage writer. 

 

 

It's the meds

Edited April 22 by Hells Comin

[Widder, SASS #59054]

The Blue Ink Bandit has spoken.    Thanks PWB.

 

(Giddy-up Crockett, its time to ride onto another match)

 

 

..........Widder

 

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

As someone who lives in Nevada.

A Nevada sweep that is UNSPECIFIED may start on ANY target.

 

A Nevada sweep is simply a "back and forth" sweep - there is NO requirement for it to start on a given target; any limitation on rounds, number of targets or any requirement that it be solely made up of singletaps.

 

Single tap Nevada on 4 plates - generally will begin on either end; but no requirement to do so.

 

Double tap Nevada on 3 plates.

Just as common to start in the middle as an end.

 

Double Barrel Nevada sweep on 4 plates has a mixture of single taps AND double taps within the same sweep - generally will begin on an end target; but as long as the shooter starts with the singletap - target choice is immaterial.

(1-2-1-2-1-2-1)

 

Back and forth is simply back and forth.

That back and forth is what defines a Nevada Sweep. 

If you want a specified start target - then say so.

 

And as someone who has "likely" written more CAS stages and matches than anyone else in the state of Nevada - I will put my opinion up against anyone elses regarding the Nevada sweep.

Edited April 22 by Creeker, SASS #43022

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

6 hours ago, Hells Comin said:

So who  says a Nevada sweep is over and back on 3 targets. Why not a  1-3-1 Nevada sweep. Don't say intent of stage writer. 

I have written the EXACT above sequence.

I wrote it on three targets as a continuous sweep utilizing BOTH rifle and pistol.

 

And the way I described it was 

A Nevada sweep - single tapping the ends and triple tapping the center for 20 rounds.

(I did specify this one to begin on either END; but more for the benefit of simplicity for shooter and spotter than anything else)

 

1-3-1-3-1-3-1-3-1-3 this example begins on an end and finishes on the center.

But it is still just a "Back and forth" Nevada sweep.

[Matthew Duncan]

22 hours ago, Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life said:

Just curious why you would do it that way (starting on center). 

Because I find it boring to shoot a stage the same way as the multitude of Shooters before me AND I like to keep the Spotters awake.