Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 I floated this on FB but curious what the wire thinks as well. Two part question. 1) Does anyone know why the minimum gauge for shotgun was set at 20 gauge for adults? 2) Given the recent resurgence of the 28 gauge and the availability of quality SxSs, would you support a rule change to allow it? If not, why? I personally think it would be a positive change particularly for some of our smaller and or recoil averse members. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Monger Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 One answer. NO! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Just now, Lead Monger said: One answer. NO! Why not? 1. No idea 2. Yes, don’t see a compelling reason to exclude. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 6 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said: Why not? 1. No idea 2. Yes, don’t see a compelling reason to exclude. +1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Monger Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 There is extremely light recoiling ammunition available for the 12 and 20 gauge and light weight firearms to handle those gauges are available as well. What’s the point in reducing the caliber requirement? Where does it end? Why don’t we just shoot 410s and rimfire? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Should be allowed. Heck, even .410 should be permitted. Be fun watching folks loading those smaller chambers. 3 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 44 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said: Why not? 1. No idea 2. Yes, don’t see a compelling reason to exclude. 37 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said: +1 +2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 16 minutes ago, Lead Monger said: There is extremely light recoiling ammunition available for the 12 and 20 gauge and light weight firearms to handle those gauges are available as well. What’s the point in reducing the caliber requirement? Where does it end? Why don’t we just shoot 410s and rimfire? As long as the shotgun will knock down the target what difference does it make? 7 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 I wouldn’t campaign to support the change, mainly because I don’t think it would provide any meaningful benefit for anyone. Having said that if it came up for a vote I would probably vote yes. 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 1 hour ago, Lead Monger said: There is extremely light recoiling ammunition available for the 12 and 20 gauge and light weight firearms to handle those gauges are available as well. What’s the point in reducing the caliber requirement? Where does it end? Why don’t we just shoot 410s and rimfire? Maybe we can add BB guns. 4 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Monger Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 This happens at my club all the time. An adult is routinely allowed to use a 410 shotgun. The 410 will not reliably knock down the shotgun targets so the targets are brought closer to the firing line. Sometimes in line with the pistol targets at about 7 yards. Now everybody gets sprayed with birdshot. Move the shotgun targets to 10 yards or beyond and the backsplash is greatly reduced or eliminated. Again the 410 shooter is upset because some targets may not go down. Never a problem with 20 gauge or larger. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still hand Bill Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 No idea why you 28ga are not allowed. Seems silly considering there is no minimum velocity or shot weight for shotguns. Considering you can easily load a 28g load (3/4oz) in a 12 ga, why not allow the 28? I shoot a 28 for most clay games as I can just buy light loads instead of having to load them. For sass I shoot a 20 ga load in 12, 7/8 oz. I expect most don’t shoot full power 12ga loads. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 10 minutes ago, Lead Monger said: Sometimes in line with the pistol targets at about 7 yards. Now everybody gets sprayed with birdshot. Move the shotgun targets to 10 yards or beyond and the backsplash is greatly reduced or eliminated. You know how to really reduce back splash? Move all the targets out to 300 yards - bingo bango - no splash. Man, won't that be fun? 1 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 I really don't care what gauge you shoot, but don't expect targets to get moved to accommodate small guns! They're close enough now based on the splatter that hits me! JMHO 18 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 3 hours ago, Smokestack SASS#87384 said: Two part question. 1) Does anyone know why the minimum gauge for shotgun was set at 20 gauge for adults? 2) Given the recent resurgence of the 28 gauge and the availability of quality SxSs, would you support a rule change to allow it? If not, why? I personally think it would be a positive change particularly for some of our smaller and or recoil averse members. Smokestack - For number 1. I don't "know" but like a lot of the traditions in this game; rules were established not for real cause - but because someone thought "it doesn't look right". I'm sure someone, at some time, worried how it would look to other disciplines if folks were allowed to shoot small gauge shotguns. number 2. Proper equipment is self regulating - I see no competitive benefit or advantage to smaller guages (and I see major competitive disadvantage) so IF a person chooses to self handicap (or requires the accomodation) by the use of a less competive decision; I am not going to stand in their way. I would vote to allow. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 12 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said: I really don't care what gauge you shoot, but don't expect targets to get moved to accommodate small guns! They're close enough now based on the splatter that hits me! JMHO If the targets aint shooting back - you aint getting the full old west experience. 1 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Duncan Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 1 hour ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said: You know how to really reduce back splash? Move all the targets out to 300 yards - bingo bango - no splash. Man, won't that be fun? Then we need another rule change so I can use my 12 pound cannon legally. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.S. Sooner, SASS #73526 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 2 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said: Maybe we can add BB guns. Maybe after the next ammo shortage. Just don't shoot your eye out! I could use my old Daisy lever gun but the targets will have to be closer. Would take some practice to hit the steel, being I'd have to aim above the target at rifle distances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 30 minutes ago, J.S. Sooner, SASS #73526 said: Maybe after the next ammo shortage. Just don't shoot your eye out! I could use my old Daisy lever gun but the targets will have to be closer. Would take some practice to hit the steel, being I'd have to aim above the target at rifle distances. I could buy another one of these and use my Daisy too! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 28 gauge is pretty rare. Even if approved I doubt most would even encounter a shooter using a 28, I've no problem with allowing it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 3 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said: Maybe we can add BB guns. Sorry, copper plated steel and too much ricochet. We'd have to settle for pellet guns. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted March 3 Author Share Posted March 3 1 hour ago, Assassin said: 28 gauge is pretty rare. Even if approved I doubt most would even encounter a shooter using a 28, I've no problem with allowing it. It is making a comeback. I can walk into the stores around here and get ammo that is appropriate for sass shooting as easily or more easily than I can 12 gauge. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Sun Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 1 hour ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said: Sorry, copper plated steel and too much ricochet. We'd have to settle for pellet guns. Airsoft, no recoil and ammo is reusable. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 4 hours ago, Lead Monger said: This happens at my club all the time. An adult is routinely allowed to use a 410 shotgun. The 410 will not reliably knock down the shotgun targets so the targets are brought closer to the firing line. Sometimes in line with the pistol targets at about 7 yards. Now everybody gets sprayed with birdshot. Move the shotgun targets to 10 yards or beyond and the backsplash is greatly reduced or eliminated. Again the 410 shooter is upset because some targets may not go down. Never a problem with 20 gauge or larger. Move the targets back. Tell them to up the load or use a different gauge of shotgun. While I'm in favor of allowing any gauge it has to be able to knock them down at the distances listed in the handbook. If it can't then it is the shooters fault and the club is under ZERO obligation to move the targets. At a match many years ago where a particular shooters 12 ga loads wouldn't knock the target down. None of the previous shooters had an issue but the shooter whined and complained so much the MD finally gave in and let them have a reshoot. Every time a KD didn't go down for them it was ruled a prop failure. 3 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 39 minutes ago, Smokestack SASS#87384 said: It is making a comeback. I can walk into the stores around here and get ammo that is appropriate for sass shooting as easily or more easily than I can 12 gauge. I see the ammo. Don't see the guns. Although, I'm not looking for anything less than 12 gauge. I don't see a problem. There are quite a few 28 gauge reloading machines for sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kloehr Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 The 28 GA was invented in the 1880s, but did not really get to the US until the 1900s. It was originally a black powder shell. Still needs to knock down targets, it is a low-recoil load popular in skeet.. There has been a resurgence in popularity since 2006, perhaps because it was Dick Cheney's round of choice for shooting his hunting buddy. https://freerangeamerican.us/the-magic-28-gauge/#:~:text=The first accounts of the,years of the 20th century. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itchy Trigger Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 3 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said: Sorry, copper plated steel and too much ricochet. We'd have to settle for pellet guns. Prefer Paint Guns! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 I know exactly two people for sure who own a 28 gauge - one has a Remington 870 and the other has a Stoeger Uplander. There's no reason at all why someone would run out and buy one for CAS if the rules were changed. Twelve gauge handloads can be made ridiculously light, so even if the 28 were legalized, I doubt the very few who do have them would start shooting them with any regularity. It wouldn't make a whit of difference to me either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattlesnake Slim Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 Cause nobody never rode shotgun on no Wells Fargo stage with a 28 gauge, that's why! Or, can you picture Doc Holliday backing up Wyatt Earp at the OK Corral with a...28ga? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 (edited) A bit of history regarding the allowance to use 28 gauge shotguns: In 2006, a proposal was made to allow .410 and 28 gauge shotguns for Senior and Elder Statesman categories: Quote "These following items were discussed at Regional and state Territorial Governor Meetings and were found to have no merit, therefore they will not appear on the TG Summit Agenda and will not be voted on: ... • Should we allow the use of .410 caliber or 28-gauge shotgun in the Senior or Elder Statesman Categories? TG SUMMIT 2006 TERRITORIAL GOVERNORS MEETING AGENDA In 2016 a rule change was passed by the Territorial Governors allowing 28 & 32 gauge shotguns for the Buckaroo/ette categories. One of the primary considerations brought up in the 2016 discussions was that: Quote Buckaroo/Buckarette competitors must use revolvers, rifles, and shotguns meeting the external standards but may be chambered in .22 LR for revolvers and rifles and .410 caliber, 28 ,or 32 gauge shotguns. o Standard velocity ammunition for these firearms must be used. o Knockdown targets are not required to fall for Buckaroo category shooters. A hit will be scored as long as the target is clearly hit. SHB p.5 FYI Edited March 3 by PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L add link 3 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 While I don't see a competitive advantage to the 28, I don't really see a good reason to allow it either. Plenty of options in 12 and 20 gauge. And 410 for buckaroo/ettes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chantry Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 (edited) 16 hours ago, Lead Monger said: This happens at my club all the time. An adult is routinely allowed to use a 410 shotgun. The 410 will not reliably knock down the shotgun targets so the targets are brought closer to the firing line. Sometimes in line with the pistol targets at about 7 yards. Now everybody gets sprayed with birdshot. Move the shotgun targets to 10 yards or beyond and the backsplash is greatly reduced or eliminated. Again the 410 shooter is upset because some targets may not go down. Never a problem with 20 gauge or larger. If the adult is allowed to use the .410 due to some physical impairment or because they can't afford another gun, then I can see allowing the .410 at the local level, although if it is due to cost other shooters should loan their shotgun and have the shooter supply the ammo. However the targets should not be moved in to accommodate the .410 and perhaps the shooter should not be allowed to shoot for score. More details would be needed to determine if the club is correctly making allowances to let a shooter with obstacles shoot or if the shooter is unwilling to comply with basic SASS rules Edited March 3 by Chantry Because I'm too lazy to proof read before hitting the save button 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Chantry said: because they can't afford another gun Have you priced.410 shells lately? Hard to find and the cost difference between them and 12 ga will pay for a new shotgun in no time. Edited March 3 by Sedalia Dave 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Monger Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 3 hours ago, Chantry said: If the adult is allowed to use the .410 due to some physical impairment or because they can't afford another gun, then I can see allowing the .410 at the local level, although if it is due to cost other shooters should loan their shotgun and have the shooter supply the ammo. However the targets should not be moved in to accommodate the .410 and perhaps the shooter should not be allowed to shoot for score. More details would be needed to determine if the club is correctly making allowances to let a shooter with obstacles shoot or if the shooter is unwilling to comply with basic SASS rules Agree that assistance is always offered for the physically impaired to participate. That is not the case here. This is a political situation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 I have no dog in this fight, but I'd not have any problem with 28 Gauge being allowed. I feel that bringing up .410, or .22RF (to say nothing of BB guns) is a specious argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.