Shotgun reloading

[Col Del Rio]

Aloha,

 

My much better half has given the go-ahead to get a shotgun reloading press. (I guess her joining my skeet and trap club AND becoming active in Cowboy shooting has something to do with this....)

 

We both shoot 12 Ga for Cowboy, I shoot 12 Ga for S & T but she shots 20 Ga for S & T so interchangeability is a must.

 

Recommendations for brands/systems? 

 

(I live in Hawaii so there are no shops around to view in person)

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

See if some at your club has a used press. Mec Jr and Lee Load All II are fairly good starter machines 

[Tarheel Doc]

Depends on how much you are planning to load. The simplest with low cost is a MEC Jr. They are cheap

enough you an buy one for each gauge. I finally settled on a progressive press. I have a Ponsness Warren which I really like. I only load 12 gauge. 

[DeaconKC]

I have a couple of the Load All 2s. Great for small amounts of loading, but a heavier progressive will serve you better.

[Cliff Hanger #3720LR]

I reloaded for cas for many years.

I did load shotgun rounds in both smokeless and BP.

I used MEC 9000G presses.

I tried the one press and changed from 12ga to 20ga as needed.

Within 2 months I bought a second press allowing me to setup one for 12ga and the other for 20ga.

Changing from 12ga smokeless to 12ga BP requires adjusting the wad compression station and the charge bar.

Charge bar. . . I did not like the adjustable so I had 3 charge bars for each powder charge I used. The bushings are aluminum and easy to change and I filed out the BP bushing to get the charge I wanted.

The 20ga press was set up and I only had one charge and shot formula so once set up, I never needed to adjusted it again.

Well, not true. As the weather temp changes so do the fine adjustments.

Same as the cartridge presses.

 

At about 10 years of reloading commercially I acquired and PW press.

It works very well.

The problem came when I changed hull brands. (If you use a single brand hull, you will not have issues.)

The STS hulls ran through the best for me.

AA second but required those adjustments I spoke of.

There is just enough differences in hulls that I had to sort hulls to keep from damaging them.

Because cas shooters use what ever works in their shotguns, they do not sort hulls by brand.

 

This became a real issue and I sold it and went back to the MEC 9000G presses.

There are parts that wear out but are easy to get to replace.

Where I got powder had all these parts.

Now as far as wearing out.

I was loading about 2500 to 3000 rounds a week.

Replacing complete press after about 3 to 4 years.

I would think for most these presses would last many many years beyond that.

 

I did not mount my MECs to the bench.

I made a bracket so I could clamp the press on the bench when I needed it so there was room to do cartridges without the MEC press being in the way.

[Sarge]

What Tarheel Doc said.  Buy two MEC Jrs.  One in 12 and one in 20.  You'll save the cost the first time you have to change everything over.

[Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life]

Shot shell presses run the gamut from dirt cheap ($100 or so) to pretty expensive ($3000 plus). Something like a Lee Load All might be all you need, but will be fairly slow. A Spolar Gold or PW will make a lot of good shells very quickly (and last forever) but upfront costs might outweigh any cost benefits unless you are a high volume shooter. Middle ground would be one of the MEC’s. Moderately inexpensive so you can buy a model that fits what you need. I started with a Sizemaster which makes good shells, is fairly fast and most importantly resizes the base with a collet system to minimum specs. If you choose to upgrade to a progressive the 9000GN works great (what I use now) and is much faster. The 600 series are less expensive, make good shells but are not as automated. great to learn on. One very important point, shotshell reloading is not nearly as forgiving of interchanging components as cartridges, manuals are very specific and should be followed. A mentor would be wise. 
If you are already reloading your cartridges you can reload your shot shells. 
Good Luck 

    

Gateway Kid

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

I load BP shotgun shells with a single stage reloader but recommend progressive reloaders to keep two clays shooters supplied.  Don't be in a hurry to get set up.  Shot is in short supply and the only 209 primers readily available are Cheddites.  (Select your loads accordingly.)  I only reload Remington and Winchester AA hulls and keep wads suitable for these hulls.  Gauge reloaded shells used for CAS or in a semi-auto.  My progressive press is an RCBS Grand.  As RCBS no longer catalogs them I don't recommend one.  YouTube has videos of shotgun presses in operation.  View them to get an idea of how they operate.  (They usually work better in the videos than on your loading bench.)

[Warden Callaway]

 

Story:

 

Years ago I looked for a used MEC 600 JR in 12 guage. Master plan was to get a change kit to load 10 gauge 2-3/4 black powder.  Went to gun shows and watched all likely places.  I finally broke down and bought a new one in 10 gauge. Got a kit to load the short shells.  Didn't work out well.  Lucked into enough 10 brass hulls to satisfy my needs.  Then I was in a gun shop flea market and spotted a used MEC 600 JR. Very old tag had $90 slashed out and $60 added.  Decided it would be worth that for my small use. Took it to counter to buy it and guy said they've had it a long time and took another $10 off!  Soon after went to a gun show and a table had 5 MEC loaders for about $100 each. Then at another gunshow a guy had two MEC 600 JR 10 gauge loaders and a table full of plastic wads. Prices were about giving them away.  Son had had a couple 10 gauge shotguns but sold them so didn't need the loaders or components. 

[Itchy Trigger]

1 hour ago, Col Del Rio said:

(I live in Hawaii so there are no shops around to view in person)

Is there now a CAS group on Oahu? I thought the only one was on Maui.

[Col Del Rio]

We are "Sometimes" affiliated with SASS.  Depends on the amount of fully paid members. 

[Canton Chris]

I use a Mec Sizemaster as it resizes the brass base on your shells. Other than that, it pretty much operates like a 600 Jr

[Reverend P. Babcock Chase]

Howdy Col.

 

I recently started reloading 12 ga.  I got a good used MEC Jr. It works great when set up right and can make plenty of shells for a cowboy shoot. Forget interchangeability, get one for each gauge.

 

Rev. Chase

[Sarival Slim]

Dillon, use an overshot card. Just sayin’…

[Captain Bill Burt]

 

 

10 hours ago, Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life said:

Shot shell presses run the gamut from dirt cheap ($100 or so) to pretty expensive ($3000 plus). Something like a Lee Load All might be all you need, but will be fairly slow. A Spolar Gold or PW will make a lot of good shells very quickly (and last forever) but upfront costs might outweigh any cost benefits unless you are a high volume shooter. Middle ground would be one of the MEC’s. Moderately inexpensive so you can buy a model that fits what you need. I started with a Sizemaster which makes good shells, is fairly fast and most importantly resizes the base with a collet system to minimum specs. If you choose to upgrade to a progressive the 9000GN works great (what I use now) and is much faster. The 600 series are less expensive, make good shells but are not as automated. great to learn on. One very important point, shotshell reloading is not nearly as forgiving of interchanging components as cartridges, manuals are very specific and should be followed. A mentor would be wise. 
If you are already reloading your cartridges you can reload your shot shells. 
Good Luck 

    

Gateway Kid

Years ago I had a Mec, couldn't stand the thing.  I'm sure it was my fault, but shot was always everywhere and if I didn't use an overshot card the loose crimp caused even more shot everywhere.

 

I eventually purchased a Dillon.  Probably my fault, but it was a PITA too, warped hulls, poor crimps.  I got rid of it and decided to just buy new, which I did for years.

 

Recently a friend gifted me a Ponsness Warren 800 plus.  He knew what type hulls I wanted and set it up for those.  I purchased the wads he suggested.  That thing is a wonder.  I've been taking it slow and have made a few very small adjustments, changed the pre crimp just a bit and went one size larger bushing on the shot drop.  So far I've loaded right at 500 shells and every single one of them has been perfectly round.  Since I upped the shot and adjusted the pre crimp my crimps look like factory made ammo.

 

If you're not lucky enough to have a good friend set one up and give it to you, you'll need to shell about about a grand to buy one and as Gateway said, you really need someone experienced to help you set it up right.

 

They all come out looking just like this.

[High Spade Mikey Wilson]

I shoot both 12 & 20 ga. I have two MEC 600 Jr. presses. Both were originally used 12 ga., but I purchased a 20 ga. conversion kit for one of them for about $100. At one time I had a MEC 12 ga. progressive press, but it was too much watching every time I pulled the lever. One little misstep and there was a mess to clean up. The MEC 600 Jr. is an inexpensive simple press, difficult to mess up with, and with an auto primer I can load a box of shells in about 10 minutes.

[Ya Big Tree]

Since you both are shooting and shoot different gauge shotguns I would recommend  getting two reloaders. As for brand I would recommend MEC.

Depending how much time you have available to reload and you financial situation, I would recommend either the MEC 60JRMarkV or the MEC 9000GN progressive.

I shot trap, and then sporting clays for many years reloading with a MEC Jr. and it served me very well. Then I got the MEC 9000. The speed of reloading with the progressive 9000 is a huge difference. Since I started in shotgun sports I have accumulated two MEC Jr's a 12 & 20 ga. and the MEC 9000 in 12 gauge. I use the 12 ga. MEC Jr only for black powder now.

Good luck with what ever you decide to purchase.

[Coffin Filler #51633]

Try to determine how many shells you will load a month and how long you want to spend reloading and I will try to guide you.   I have owned at least eight different presses from a Mec JR to a Spolar and shot CAS, skeet, trap and sporting clays.

 

One suggestion for you to consider.   There is no good reason for you wife to shoot a 20 ga if you reload.   Life will be easier if you invest in a quality press instead of two marginal presses.  

[Sedalia Dave]

Before you jump into reloading shotshells do some math and decide if it is worth it from an economics standpoint.

 

First consideration is shot.  Do you have a source for shot? Is it new or reclaimed? Some reloading machines tend to bridge when using reclaimed shot.

 

Next is primers. Do you have a source for primers? In addition to the price don't forget to add in shipping and hazmat fees. If you use Cheddite primers in a hull you cannot switch to any other brand. Cheddites are about .0005 larger than other brands. This enlarges the primer pocket just enough that other brands will not stay properly seated in the hull.

 

Next is do you have a reliable source of hulls? As a general rule you cannot switch hull types without making adjustments to the machine and the recipe. About the only current manufacture hulls that will stand up to multiple reloadings are Remington STS / Nitro / Gun Club hulls or Winchester AA. The metal bases on almost all other hulls are so thin that they will tear when attempting to reload them. The exception may be Fiochi hulls but I don't have enough experience with them to say for sure.

 

My rough calculations show that at today's prices it costs about $9.00 a box to load your own shotgun shells. Your costs may be higher simply because you are in Hawaii. If you have a source of inexpensive shot the costs will come down a buck to a buck 50 a box.

[Texas Maverick]

3 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

 

If you're not lucky enough to have a good friend set one up and give it to you, you'll need to shell about about a grand to buy one and as Gateway said, you really need someone experienced to help you set it up right.

 

They all come out looking just like this.

Captain Bill,

 

Where can you get a PW for a grand? I would really like to get one for this. All I see them for is around 3 grand. I bought a Mec 9000E for $1500 and thought that was a good deal.

 

Texas Maverick

[Captain Bill Burt]

2 minutes ago, Texas Maverick said:

Captain Bill,

 

Where can you get a PW for a grand? I would really like to get one for this. All I see them for is around 3 grand. I bought a Mec 9000E for $1500 and thought that was a good deal.

 

Texas Maverick

They're sold out right now, but they list for $1050.

https://www.reloaders.com/collections/new-machines/products/800plus-w-metal-ez-seal-top-plate-12ga-or-20ga?variant=26540409217

[Texas Maverick]

1 minute ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

They're sold out right now, but they list for $1050.

https://www.reloaders.com/collections/new-machines/products/800plus-w-metal-ez-seal-top-plate-12ga-or-20ga?variant=26540409217

Thanks

 

TM

[Still hand Bill]

I have used a mec grabber, mec jr and now a pw800+.   All worked well.  For the $$ the grabber was the Best Buy for a progressive press.   Basically a 9000 without auto indexing.   Now I limit the mec jr for hunting loads as it takes a lot longer for any volume.  
 

with two different sizes, and constant shooting, I would probably buy two grabbers or two 9000’s.  The Lee is cheap and it gets you started, but not the machine to do 1000’s per year.   Same with the mec jr, a fine press, but it’s a single stage, so its 5 handle presses per shell.  The pw’s are nice, but not sure it’s any better than a mec and changing over from 12-20 takes 15-30 min.  I load two sizes, 28 and 12, so to minimize changeovers, I run 500-1000 of each then switch.  Also if I was to do it again I would spring for a spolar.  

[Tarheel Doc]

I found mine on eBay and then added upgrades. The ponsness Warren website is easy to follow and they promptly send parts with very clear instillation instructions. It is an awesome machine which makes a great round. 

[Eyesa Horg]

I'm using an old Mec Grabber for most loading now. I still use my Mec 600 Jr. for some things, especially BP. After getting them fine tweaked, I can load both AA & STS hulls without issue or adjustment. Once in a few blue moons I get one with a tiny hole in the crimp and just put a dab of glue on it. For the cost, a couple of 600 jr.s should serve you well.

["Big Boston"]

13 hours ago, Canton Chris said:

I use a Mec Sizemaster as it resizes the brass base on your shells. Other than that, it pretty much operates like a 600 Jr

I'd endorse that as well. The Sizemaster is a bit harder to set up. but the way it sizes the brass base is nice. At some point you may want to consider a progressive, for production, but they have the disadvantage in that changing loads is not that easy. 

I've had a few LEE LoadAlls, they are cheap to buy and they feel cheap when you use them, I don't like them. 
I've still got the first MEC I bought, a 600 Jr, and I still use it when I reload. For CAS, I just buy my ammo, that may change with the prices going up. 

I did own a used Grabber, IMO it's not a press to learn on. I swept up a lot of spilled shot and powder before getting it to work. When it was flying, it would make a lot of shells in a hurry. 

 

BB

[Captain Bill Burt]

My favorite hull is Remington Gun Club.  I have noticed that the PW has some difficulty resizing the steel base.  I believe they're a bit less flexible than brass bases.  It just seems to drag a bit, I'm guessing that's because the hull doesn't seat quite as deep.  I started resizing my hulls first and the machine cycled much easier.

[Vail Vigilante]

I like the Steelmaster. If hunting is not on the list a Sizemaster. I had some Lee Loadalls and I struggled with them. You could not adjust the crimp on those.  The 600 jr does not have a on board automated resize die. Its not a deal breaker. I can run a Steel/Sizemaster well enough to kick out about 200ish rounds in a session.  (A couple hours) How much trap and skeet do you use? This is the argument for a progressive.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

59 minutes ago, Vail Vigilante said:

The (MEC) 600 jr does not have a on board automated resize die.

No,

It has a sizer ring at the bottom of the die body.   For most guns, that is enough resizing to return the hull to a small enough diameter. 

 

Some guns and applications can require the use of a collet type sizer, especially when reloading hulls that were fired in sloppy, worn or heavily reamed (hint, hint) chambers.

 

Back when I loaded with a 600 Jr, and I picked up some hulls that were huge, I used a Mec Super Sizer 777 tool to collet-size, then finished reloading on the 600 Jr. 

 

good luck, GJ 

["Big Boston"]

11 minutes ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

No,

It has a sizer ring at the bottom of the die body.   For most guns, that is enough resizing to return the hull to a small enough diameter. 

 

Some guns and applications can require the use of a collet type sizer, especially when reloading hulls that were fired in sloppy, worn or heavily reamed (hint, hint) chambers.

 

Back when I loaded with a 600 Jr, and I picked up some hulls that were huge, I used a Mec Super Sizer 777 tool to collet-size, then finished reloading on the 600 Jr. 

 

good luck, GJ 

 

Whoa, did this go off the rails rather quickly. 

 

As GJ said, the 600 has a sizing ring, it is of fixed diameter, ring, much like the carbide ring in a pistol FL die. Back in the day when the metallic base on shotgun shells was made of brass. Most hulls today have a steel base and sizing is not as smooth, still works, but it's one size and the down stroke take a bit more effort and is not as smooth as it used to be.

MEC addressed this issue by selling a collet type stand alone sizer, that eventually got incorporated into the sizemaster press.  ( I hope I got that right, all I know is that at the time our local stores did not sell a sizemaster press.) I prefer the sizemaster collet sizer, like GJ said, it is adjustable, but what really sold me was how it  smoothed out the stoke. It also has a nice clack sound as it releases. I think it also helps maintain the grip the base metal has on the shell. In a tight chambered shotgun, perhaps not a factor, but if you shotgun chambers are a bit biggish at the back, the base metal gets a bit expanded every time it's fired. 

 

I have a sizemaster press or dies for 12, 20 and 410, but if I'm just loading my old AA hulls, I'll just use my 600, it's like an old friend.

 

And if I'm just experimenting, I have a couple of the old LEE Loaders in 10, 12, 16 and 20. No 410, but that one is on the bucket list. 

 

BB 

[Captain Bill Burt]

I didn't mention speed, but starting from scratch it takes me about 15 minutes to load the primers, resize the hulls, load 100 rounds and chamber check them, so about 400 rounds an hour without rushing.

[Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001]

got rid of teh Lee load alls , went to MECs 

 

  much better IMO 

 

   CB 

[Badlands Bob #61228]

On 1/17/2023 at 4:39 PM, Captain Bill Burt said:

I didn't mention speed, but starting from scratch it takes me about 15 minutes to load the primers, resize the hulls, load 100 rounds and chamber check them, so about 400 rounds an hour without rushing.

I have a Mec Jr and I can load 400 rounds in about a week without rushing.