"Big Boston"

Gauge 20 ga 2 ¾ Date Loaded 2023-09-30 Hull WW CF AA, 2 ¾" Yellow Primer WW209 Shot 7 ½ Weight in Ounces 3/4 Powder WW452AA Weight in Grains 13.8 Bushing # 20 (MEC) Wad WW AA20 (plus filler card) Wad Pressure 30 Firearm SxS Stoeger Deluxe Number loaded Comments This load is from the 5th edition of Reloading For Shotgunners, page 111. Winchester CF AA hull, WW209 primer, WW452 powder, WAA20 wad, 14 gr for 1150 fps, 15 gr for 1200 fps. Note 7: Add one 410 bore, 0.135 card inside bottom of shot cup. I used a ½”, 12mm punch and Toy Story cardboard to make cards, and three stacked is 0.130”. Works best with all stacked under shot. I tried a few other combos, the shells were not as nice. This load is mild in the coach gun, and will break clay targets up to 30 yards. The Imp Cyl barrel is easier to hit with. Pattern testing with different chokes is on the to-do list. That's my go to now. when my 452 runs out I'll look for another powder.

Just a bit of shotgun technical trivia. On a true cylinder bore, the barrel length has a fairly big influence on the pattern. How big a pattern you need depends on the type and distance your target is at. As a general rule of thumb, below 21" the pattern does open up, a fair bit. You can gain some pattern back with wad choice, but if shortening, shoot a test pattern first. Screw in chokes are a good tuning tool. I like a Skeet choke if it has tubes. Barrel length influences the POI. The shorter the barrel, the higher a shotgun tends to shoot. It's a good policy to test the shotgun first. It also has to do with how the shotgun fits you. I find most shotguns will shoot higher after the barrels are shortened, installing a big front bead helps lower the pattern. For a Cowboy shotgun, you can tune a bit with the LOP. Unless you have a brain that can remember how each one of your guns shoot, a spare that matches your main gun is a good idea. The more you practice the better you'll hit. I was at a match recently where the shotgun targets were about 16 yards away and about the size of a large paint can (1 gallon app). My Cyl choke '97 hit well, but not with great authority. My load was one ounce of shot at 1100 fps. I had some 1 1/8 oz 1200 fps loads just in case, but they were not needed. If you miss a cowboy shotgun target, the issue is likely a flinch on your part. It doesn't take much of a twitch to miss. Slapping the trigger and a fast hammer help. A bit of mercury in the stock doesn't hurt either. In addition, SxS shotguns with external hammers mess with you head. Your eye sees the hammer drop and your brain tells you the hurt is coming, focus on the target, and your brain will filter out the hammers. I remember the first time I shot a '97, the sight of the bolt travelling back scared me at first, now I don't even see it. BB

Thanks, time to learn a new habit. BB

From years of shooting in the field, I always have the hammer in the half cock notch, a habit. Technically is that the same as having the hammer down on an empty chamber for a '66/'73 rifle? BB

I bought my rifle new and I've had the odd issue with it as well. It seems like the quality control at Uberti has slipped a cog or two. It feeds, fires and extracts, but does tend to put scratches in the brass. If you have any smokeless loads that have worked well for you, could you please share them. BB

Technically Ballistics, but I agree, at times it can seem like Rocket Science. I prefer the term "Rocket Surgery". I asked a friend to run some Quickload data for me. Some of the velocities I had were well above the prediction in the books. The printout that I got back from my friend had a fair bit of information to ponder. One of the data fields was the expected muzzle pressure, and the recommendation not to shoot below a certain pressure as the bullet may not exit the muzzle. This reloading for Cowboy is getting to be more like rocket surgery all the time. BB

Es (Extreme spread) and Sd (Standard deviation) are statistical data calculated by the Chronograph. In addition I look at the difference in average velocity between the two powder positions, (powder against the bullet and powder against the flash hole). These stats give you data that you can use to compare one load to another, and will give you an indication of any ignition or powder position issues. 963 is a 1873 Winchester rifle with a 20" barrel, from Taylors. I give my firearms names and/or a unique number. I've edited the post to clarify both those points. BB

Calibre 32-20 (32 WCF) Date Loaded 2024-05-28 Powder Unique Weight in Grains 4.9 Bullet Bullet Barn 313 32 RNFP FB Weight in Grains 96 Primer Fed100SP Loaded OAL 1.583 Case W-W 32-20 WIN Weight in Grains 65.5 app Times Loaded 2nd * Number loaded 10 Firearm 1873 Winchester by Taylors Barrel clean/fouled Fouled Velocity Av 1456/1514.75 Es 49/5 Sd 20.33/2.22 Shots 5>/4< Comments * cases were fire formed and trimmed to 1.262” Note: On the first shot >, I forgot about powder position. On the < group, first shot was Error 3. (shot not picked up by one screen) I would be remiss if I didn't at least try a load with Unique. Unique is not one of my go to powders, but it is usually on the list of possible powders to use because of its propensity to have powder position issues with low density loading. I've not been able to find much loading data specific to my bullet, but both Paco Kelly and Ken Waters list 5.5 as near max. or max. with bullets up to 110 grains. This is the second load that has given me velocities well above predicted, and above the maximum allowed for SASS/CAS. I have a few theories as to why, but the are mostly WAG or theories. On the positive, this load is capable of some pretty nice numbers. With powder forward the Es and Sd are really good. However ignition becomes a bit unreliable and erratic as soon as the the powder position is against the bullet. With 60 fps between the two powder positions and about a 10X increase in Es and Sd, and the excessive velocity, I see very little to be gained by any further testing with Unique. Decreasing the charge will only make the powder position worse. Certainly trying a rifle primer may help, but better ignition will only increase the velocity. I feel fortunate that my Trail Boss load is at least decently consistent, and suitably accurate. Note: My present chronograph is a Caldwell, and although it seems to work well, it does have a few quirks. The shot needs to be centered over the screen and can't be too high either. However, I'll overlook those as I really like that it displays all the info on my cell phone. I can share strings and I have a permanent digital record. I plan on using this rifle for far targets, those at or near the max suggested distance of 50 yards. To that end my target velocity is just above sonic, app 1250 fps to mimic standard 22 LR velocities. BB PS: If not familiar with Chronograph data, most will calculate statistical data like Es (Extreme Spread) and Sd (Standard deviation). Es is the difference between the slowest and fastest shot in fps. Sd is a statistical calculation, in fps. (In statistics, the standard deviation is a measure of the amount of variation of a random variable expected about its mean.) Basically, a load with a small Sd is likely to be more accurate, than a load with a higher Sd.

Yes, I loaded a few boxes, even tried it with a few component variations as well. IMHO it was OK, but not great. Feel free to try my Clays load, if you are fortunate enough to have any Clays, I predict you'll give it a fantastic rating. But as we all know, not every batch of Unique is the same, perhaps my batch was not up to the challenge of a low pressure load. Your Unique load has worked well for you, I wasn't as lucky. I'm not sure why, I wish it had worked, it would be nice to find a use for all the Unique I hoarded years ago. BB

This may get a bit long winded, without much substance, but I'll tell my story anyways. A few years back I stumbled on a decent deal on a bit of an incomplete reloading package for 32-20. The "Deal" included about 150 brass, 99 W-W and the rest Starline already primed. It included a LEE seat and crimp die and a package of 500 cast bullets. The bullets were from the Bullet barn, and the label stated that they were lubed with a dry lubricant. They likely came from a Magma mold, 32-96 RNFP FB and were sized at 313 - 314. along the way I acquired a set of old RCBS dies, likely some of their first production. the three die set was finished with a tough black coating, the FL die does not have a decapping stem and is not threaded for one. The second die is a decapping and neck flaring die and the third is a seating and crimp die. the seating stem seems to fit a 008 cast bullet. I added a LEE collet crimp die, and a LEE length gage. Eventually, about two months ago I bought a 32-20 rifle, a Cimarron '73 Deluxe. I noticed a set of 310 dies advertised for sale online and bought those a well. After all, you can never have too many tools. Now I felt inspired and set about to load some ammo. I looked like I had everything I needed, the rest should be routine, or so I thought. I load most of my cowboy ammunition with a 550 Dillon, which has four stations. With a FL die that has no decapping pin, I set the second RCBS die in a seperate press (a cute little Harrell) and that covered the decapping chore. Seating was pretty straight forward, the RCBS die fits the 32-96 RNFP FB rather well. I discovered that my W-W brass was short, and the case mouths were not that square. I decided to trim after fire forming. Crimping was handled by the LEE seat and crimp die with the seating plug removed. A bit of rework was required. As we all know Dillon does not maintain the standard 0.125 we have come to expect from the standard shell holder. Therefore I removed a bit off the bottom of the die. Because I was using a 313 - 314 bullet the neck was a bit big for the die and I had to hone out a few thou. from the neck of the die as well. So I made a dummy round, and loaded it in my rifle. That is when I discovered the first surprise. Chambering was not smooth, actually the cartridge would jamb up, the nose of the bullet hit the edge of the chamber. Brand new rifle, with an issue. I have another small caliber '66, and I borrowed the lifter from it to get the '73 working. I'll skip the details, but it looks like whoever fitted the lifter polished out the inclusions for looks, and made the lifter useless. Being a rifle, I decided to load with 2400. I used 7.5 grains which according to the books should come in at about 1200 fps. the load was a bust. With powder against the primer the velocity averaged about 1500 fps, and with the powder position forward the velocity was about 1350. I was a bit perplexed, things were not going as planned. I was at a lose, so 2400 ceased to be a powder of interest. My second powder on the list was Unique, but as it has the propensity to be position sensitive as well, I went to my stash of Trail Boss. My 2.5 grain starting load performed a bit mediocre, upping the charge to 2.7 grains helped, but I felt there was improvement to be had. I looked for possible issues and my focus became the bullets. I don't have what I'd consider a suitable mold. I have a LEE 309-113-F and a Lyman 311316, both are a gas check design and dusting off the powder coating equipment didn't appeal to me at this time. I've mostly had good results with cast bullets for Cowboy if they were at groove diameter of slightly less. i checked my inventory, I had a 312 H&I and a #8 punch. My 450 has set up for 50/50 so I installed the 312 and #8 and started to size and lube the Bullet barn bullets. I trimmed the fire formed brass to 1.26" and loaded to an OAL of 1.582". In addition I switched to the Starline brass which were primed with was likely a Federal primer, green colored pellet. Powder position sensitivity and ignition consistency were within acceptable limits, but my chronograph was giving me errors, so more testing is in order. I really wasn't expecting this to such an involved exercise. Such is life!!!! To be continued: BB

IMHO Unique is not good for 12 ga Cowboy loads. It will work, I have tried it. I followed the 12 ga OLG recipe. It will produce a low recoil load, but it wasn't clean enough burning to get my "good" rating. There are better powders, and there are also many that are worse. In my Cowboy 12 ga experimenting I found Clays to be very suitable for a lower recoil, reduced velocity 1 oz load. It burns cleaner, and velocity runs at about 1100 fps. I chronographed two shells, which I consider enough to get a reasonably close reading. I'm not comfortable shooting mere inches above the screens with a shotgun. On a plus the load is in the books. Clays has a fairly linear pressure/velocity curve, IOW, it works well if reduced slightly. On the downside, Clays is not currently in production. The goal should be keep the pressure above a certain level. I've looks a a fair number of reloading manuals and 12 ga 2 3/4 ammo looks to have a minimum working pressure of about 1/2 of the 11,500 psi max. You don't see much data under mid 6,000 psi level. But bottom line, it doesn't recoil any softer than the OLG load, it does burn a bit cleaner though, and it patterns well enough, and has sufficient lower to take chicken hunting. The max range is reduced from a standard load, but pattern density is as good or better. Light recoiling loads at low velocity is not where the 12 ga shines, the 20 ga is better suited although data is not common. Most manuals try and make the 20 shoot like a 12. At the core, a Cowboy load bucks the trend, not many disciplines have a goal of loading pathetic performing ammunition. No disrespect intended, just how I see it. I'm not a fan of getting kicked about by a shotgun, nor do I particularly like reloading shotgun, but off the shelf cowboy loads are a pretty rare commodity. BB

The toggle link actions and lubrication, I'm still learning on that one. on some of the higher friction points I use grease, however I usually use snowmobile grease. At room temperature it oozes oil, on a hot day it may even liquify completely, but from what I can see it does still lubricate. The rest gets a light coating of Ballistol. There is one product I'd like to try, and that is Armite LP-250 Sear Grease, it sounds like a good idea. The hammer sear in a 66/73 is pretty much out of the main crud stream. The lifter and lifter cavity are dry, Q-Tip and ISO dry, so that any blowby particles will not gum up the slide. Now back to the main issue. I've also experienced the need to increase hammer pressure. The cause seems to be with the firing pin action getting sluggish. IOW, at full cock I'll push on the firing pin and I find that it pushes in and come back out but the movement doesn't seem "free". On the list is a complete tear down, and as already stated, I'm thinking I'll find some dried up and gummy lube. This is on a 2001, Uberti '73, new into my shop, an estate to gunshow to a vendor in our club, to me for repair and then off to the new owner. Not to steal the thread, but it would not cycle smoothly. I got it working but I needed to shorten the toggle pin and replace the lifter arm, as it didn't seem correct. Remember: "Many gunshow goods have issues, all have history and a story." BB

A bit of a confusing question, IMHO. Here are my $0.02 worth of opinion. I have a few 44-40s, none are 427 so I use a 429 bullet. As a general rule, the necks of most 44-40 chambers will only accommodate bullets up to and including 429. Just for reliability and ease of reloading with regular tools and components, if you don't have any 427 guns, load with 429 bullets. A coated bullet will tolerate being undersize, by a wee bit. How I like to view the bullet size theory of operation is to look at the cross sectional area of the bullet and how it compares to the cross sectional area of the hole in the barrel. IMHO and analyzing my own experience, I believe this concept has merit. It takes into considerations of the bore size, the number and depth of the groove (groove diameter) and gives you a minimum usable diameter. This does apply to cowboy loads which, for the most part, are around typical black powder pressures and velocities lower than cast bullet hunting or non cowboy loads. I'll give an example: The SAAMI spec for minimum bore and groove area for a 44-40 is 0.1426 sq. in. and a 0.4261 diameter bullet has that same area. Now you have to take into account that a Ruger 44-40 likely is using a deep groove barrel with a smaller bore than a spec 44-40 barrel. The area for a min spec 44 Mag is less at 0.1405 sq. in. The area of a 0.429 bullet is 0.1445 sq. in. There are more factors that come into play, but theoretically speaking, if the bullet were fluid enough it would fill or be reshaped to fill the bore groove area if the bullet area were equal to the barrels bore and groove area. But the bullet is not fluid enough, as most cowboy bullets are in and around about a BHN of 14. Powder coated bullets have a surface hardness of about 16 to 18 BHN. The coating increases the bullets ability to resist skidding. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that a coated bullet is not nearly as fussy as a sized and lubed bullet. it will tolerate what a fair bit of abuse. In my firearms, of which all have at least a 429 groove diameter, the soft lead 427 dia Winchester 225 ammo fails. 429 diameter harder cast bullets are OK. Therefore I'd say that a 429 diameter coated bullet should work well, and in addition I'd recommend sizing the bullets to ensure uniformity. I just use a LEE bullet sizer, either type, and haven't noticed any issues. Makes the bullets cylindrical and the shanks smooth. BB

WRT mentioning the '66. Some issues with the '66 are a bit unique to it and don't apply to a '73, but the posts do make a point, that the events involved with operating the action all need to work together, timing is the most important factor. Clearance is the other. Basically the action needs to work within the limitations of the lifter, The lifter is not where I'd remove metal to try and correct a timing issue. This rule applies more to an action that has not been professionally slicked. With a true action job every piece has been tuned to work in with the other pieces. At the core, you'll need to send it off or determine the root cause and correct that. IMO, the lifter operation looks more like a symptom. There are lots of friction points in a toggle link action, and the wear points do wear. In Canada, gunsmiths familiar with the inner working of the '66/'73 rifles are few and usually on the other end of the country. In addition a 3 to 6 month wait for repairs/tuning is normal. That makes DIY less on an option and more of a necessity. One heck of a learning curve, for me anyways, and I did ruin a few parts. Hint, modify the cheap parts first, that way mistakes aren't as costly. On a '73 a video of complete cycle will give us cowboys an opportunity to see the issue. I think the maintenance of a '66/'73 is a DIY, modifying probably not. Even the well designed short stroke kits are not entirely a drop in and shoot proposition. BB P.S. My goto for information is https://www.pioneergunworks.com/technical-info

My fascination for tools from the past seems to know no bounds, and it seems like some of my friends have noticed. I was doing the standing behind my table at a gunshow and another vendor that also shoots cowboy at our club walks over with an old but complete Lachmiller 12 gauge shotshell sizer decapper. He words were, "For you" and he walked away smiling. I replied back, with a hopefully sincere sounding, thanks. I've seen it on his table at other gunshows, picked it up on several occasions to try and figure out how it worked. I have a MEC 600 Jr and a MEC Sizemaster, the need for a stand alone sizer decapper just isn't there. Not entirely as my MEC doesn't size the base to SAAMI minimum, more like SAAMI middle. But I like hand tools, so I set about to clean it up, and come up with a mounting solution. The cleanup was pretty routine, the tool has seen very little use, is very well made. It disassembles easily with normal hand tools. I did not paint it, doesn't need it IMO, and I didn't want to invest a whole lot of time in this project. It works rather well, the base of the shell is sized to minimum SAAMI spec and the spring loaded decapping pin blasts the spent primer out of the pocket. The spent primer catcher is a bit rudimentary, Lachmiller added a bit of a down spout on a upgraded model, according to the pictures I've seen. Cleaned and lubed up for work. I had about a 100 hulls to work with and using this machine was fun, and I decapped and sized them all. The odd primer did not hit the funnel, but to be honest, the hulls had sat in my garage for a few years and the primers were in there tight. The spring loaded decapping system reminds me of how the Dillon FL sizer die decapper is made. The mounting board is designed so that I can mount the tool in my vise, do the task, and then put the tool back on the shelf. I've a few tools I've mounted this way, a real space saver. Most work areas have a bench vise, one of those universal tools. The Lachmiller tool has three 5/16" mounting holes, and a fourth, 1/2" hole was added so the spent primers had somewhere to go. A small metal measuring cup that has lost its handle fit under the mounting board and does an admirable job of catching the spent primers. (I've offset the press to show the spent primer container) BB

Thanks, good information.

Locally a BSS came up for sale, a bit spendy at 1500 CAD, but not out of line IMO. It's been a while since I researched the SxS option, is the BSS still a good candidate for a reliable coach gun? Because it's M & F the first step will be to shorten the barrels, to likely 20" and install a big bead up front. This will likely decrease the value to less than half, but I have no use for a M & F long barreled shotgun. I'm not a fan of 3" chambers as I only shoot 2 3/4", but in reality that is a minor flaw. The length of pull looks to be a bit long, I'll likely take an inch off the butt as well. Are there any issues that I should address before getting serious? On the BSS I had back in the day I had a lot of problems with the hinge pin, it would bind and gall. I ended up doing lots of polishing and greasing to keep that problem from getting too bad, but it would eat itself every once in a while. I suspected bad metal. I noticed the galling after shooting about 10 shells.

I have lived in a rural area for many years, and over the years have shot a bunch of different DIY targets. My latest were cut from a bunch of 3/8 Hardox 400 cutoffs. These seem to work real well. Steel targets work best when they can deflect the bullets, stopping the bullet dead on requires a very strong steel, anything under 400 will crater with a direct blow. There is only so much force a steel plate can absorb before it yields. Any steel that is cratered should not be shot. Pieces of bullet will fly straight back at you. Several hits in your torso or head will convince you. Also, any projection will deflect bullet fragments, I prefer welding a hanger to the back of a target, safer than thru the plate mounting. Disadvantage to welding: has to go back to the shop for repair. Targets should hang at app 15 degrees, top edge forward, so as to deflect down. Swinging targets work better than ridged mounting. The gravel truck box and loader bucket repair shops use AR 400, ore truck box repair requires lots of AR plate. I was able to scrounge some AR, mostly used. I paid the shop to cut the scraps into squares or circles. It is better to have a larger target farther away than a smaller one close. Remember, safety first. Bullets should go down range only, steel can change that dynamic.