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Be careful purchasing to many firearms at once.


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"Got a warrant?" "No?" "Have a nice day, please leave my property" SLAM.  BTW, the multiple form is for handguns only.  Pistols and Revolvers.

Edited by LawMan Mark, SASS #57095L
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7 minutes ago, LawMan Mark, SASS #57095L said:

BTW, the multiple form is for handguns only.  Pistols and Revolvers.

Seems like I've heard that in states bordering Mexico, they are doing it with rifles also. Might just be evil black rifles, but rifles.

 

The people need to become less obliging.

 

"You don't mind if I look in your trunk do you?" "It's okay if I take a look inside your car isn't it?" And this one - "We need to see the multiple guns you purchased to verify that you still have them".

 

Correct reply to all three questions - "May I see your search warrant officer? What's that? You don't have a warrant? Piss off!"

 

I love it on the cop shows. "Don't you need a warrant for that?" "I can have a warrant here in 20 minutes.", and the citizen crumbles. "Okay officer, look at whatever you want to." When the correct response should be, "Great. Then I will see you again in 20 minutes, with the warrant".

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12 minutes ago, Alpo said:

Seems like I've heard that in states bordering Mexico, they are doing it with rifles also. Might just be evil black rifles, but rifles.

 

The people need to become less obliging.

 

"You don't mind if I look in your trunk do you?" "It's okay if I take a look inside your car isn't it?" And this one - "We need to see the multiple guns you purchased to verify that you still have them".

 

Correct reply to all three questions - "May I see your search warrant officer? What's that? You don't have a warrant? Piss off!"

 

I love it on the cop shows. "Don't you need a warrant for that?" "I can have a warrant here in 20 minutes.", and the citizen crumbles. "Okay officer, look at whatever you want to." When the correct response should be, "Great. Then I will see you again in 20 minutes, with the warrant".

From the ATF website:

 

Sales of Rifles

In 2011, ATF was authorized to enforce multiple firearms sales for certain types of rifles from FFLs in Arizona, California, New Mexico and Texas.

FFLs in these states must report the following types of rifles:

Semiautomatic rifles

Rifles with a caliber greater than .22 (including .223 or 5.56 mm)

Rifles with the ability to accept detachable magazines

Reporting Process for Rifles

Fill out two copies of the ATF Form 3310.12, Report of Multiple Sale or Other Disposition of Certain Rifles.

Send the first copy to ATF’s National Tracing Center by fax at 1-877-283-0288, email MultipleLonggunSalesForms@atf.gov(link sends e-mail), or mail to:

U.S. Department of Justice
NTC
P.O. Box 0279
Kearneysville, WV 25430-0279

ATF recommends that the licensee retains the second copy and attaches it to the back of the Firearms Transaction Record ATF Form 4473 that covers the transfer of the firearms.

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3 minutes ago, LawMan Mark, SASS #57095L said:

ATF Form 3310.12, Report of Multiple Sale or Other Disposition of Certain Rifles.

How is this not a registry?

 

download

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Actually ... I think it is kinda neat they would show up once in a while when someone purchased 7 guns??!?? Is that what he really said?? 7 guns?? 

I think there are a lot of folks out there that are buying for the sole purpose of re-selling and are not bothering to spend $30 to be a dealer.  They are just running their little "business" on the side. 

If it does anything is shows the guy that they actually look at this sort of thing once in a while. IMHO ... 

 

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Many years ago, a friend got a large settlement from a workplace injury.  He went on a buying spree.  Bought about 45 handguns in less than a month.  ATF contacted him and asked nicely if he would mind showing he had actually purchased all of them for himself.  He agreed to meet at a neutral location (our town hall) and proved that he still had all but one, and had a receipt where it had been traded for another gun at a FFL dealer.

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Many years ago, my Dad was dying and I was hot-footing it through NV to ID and not paying attention to the cop behind me.
He tailed me 10 miles before hitting the siren and got my attention.

I apologized for not seeing him, told him about Dad and why I was distracted.
Being the prick that he was, he decided to do a dog inspection on the side of the road.

He said we could do it there, or haul me into the station and do it down there.
Being the total prick that he was, and my urgent need to move, I let the dog go through the truck.

After 45 minutes of him being a prick, and the dog finding nothing, I told him, "I carry a security clearance, and don't do or transport drugs."
Mr. Prick finally had to let me go, but with a stiff ticket for speeding in the Nevada desert.

If you have all day to waste, you can call Mr. Prick on his baloney, then spend all afternoon waiting for his watch commander to arrive, etc, etc.
Sometimes one just has to take getting screwed by prick cops so they can move on with their lives.

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These guys were ATF and cops? Someone shows up at my door dressed like that, claiming to be LEO, I'm calling the real cops (911) and telling them that armed men are at my door. We'll see what happens then. 

 

Did anyone else notice the lackadaisical attitude of Mr ATF's "backup"?

 

So far as the No Registry goes...anyone who believes that, probably believes in Santa Claus also.

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I have asked this before...


What are you *really* going to do when cop(s) come to your door with a court order to confiscate your guns?


• Shoot the Cop
• Explain the 2nd Amendment
• Refuse Entry on 2nd Amendment grounds
• Stand by helplessly


#1 - your rectum will be married to your cell mate for eternity
#2 - will get you cuffed and placed in the police cruiser
#3 - will get you beaten up, cuffed, and placed in the cruiser
#4 - helplessly watch them ransack and confiscate your gun safe


Law enforcement and the courts will systematically destroy you if you refuse to surrender your guns to a court order.

Which of your neighbors and friends will bring weapons and stand by you?  

Which of them is willing to be financially destroyed, made destitute and homeless by the courts?

 

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Entering the residence without a warrant or the permission of the resident would have violated Fourth Amendment rights.

Asking to inspect the guns IS a violation of the Fifth amendment.

There's a point where people are intimidate into compliance with the demands of such illegal efforts by law enforcement. The issue is sometimes a question of, "just how much pain do I want to endure because of the efforts of an over-zealous cop/agent?"

At least these agents and the cop were respectful and they weren't forcing and inventory count.

As for me, I would have insisted that they tell me which gun they wanted to see and that's the only firearm I show them.

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25 minutes ago, bgavin said:

I have asked this before...


What are you *really* going to do when cop(s) come to your door with a court order to confiscate your guns?


• Shoot the Cop
• Explain the 2nd Amendment
• Refuse Entry on 2nd Amendment grounds
• Stand by helplessly


#1 - your rectum will be married to your cell mate for eternity
#2 - will get you cuffed and placed in the police cruiser
#3 - will get you beaten up, cuffed, and placed in the cruiser
#4 - helplessly watch them ransack and confiscate your gun safe


Law enforcement and the courts will systematically destroy you if you refuse to surrender your guns to a court order.

Which of your neighbors and friends will bring weapons and stand by you?  

Which of them is willing to be financially destroyed, made destitute and homeless by the courts?

 

If you are one of the first few and you haven’t made up your mind yet and aren’t prepared you’re probably sol . But look how fast word got out about this ? And I can guarantee there will be people who resist. Well prepared people. Numbers wise the government simply doesn’t have the resources. Yea they can make examples of a select few . If you’re a gun owner and they actually go door to door as soon as they get your guns your going to be going to re education camp anyway. You have to be smart and pick your battles . Most of all fight politically now so it doesn’t get to that point. They want you to believe it’s too late but it’s not. 

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2 hours ago, bgavin said:

I have asked this before...


What are you *really* going to do when cop(s) come to your door with a court order to confiscate your guns?


• Shoot the Cop
• Explain the 2nd Amendment
• Refuse Entry on 2nd Amendment grounds
• Stand by helplessly


#1 - your rectum will be married to your cell mate for eternity
#2 - will get you cuffed and placed in the police cruiser
#3 - will get you beaten up, cuffed, and placed in the cruiser
#4 - helplessly watch them ransack and confiscate your gun safe


Law enforcement and the courts will systematically destroy you if you refuse to surrender your guns to a court order.

Which of your neighbors and friends will bring weapons and stand by you?  

Which of them is willing to be financially destroyed, made destitute and homeless by the courts?

 

If you have made the #1 decision to resist violently ,likely have thought through the consequences.

 

If you have the cajones to defend your rights violently why do you think the cell mate wouldn't be the wife in that situation? 

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Howdy,

Wonder what the guy would say if the owner said

I hate guns and destroy them as often as I can afford.

The remains were recycled.

 

Wonder.

Best

CR

 

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7 hours ago, bgavin said:

Many years ago, my Dad was dying and I was hot-footing it through NV to ID and not paying attention to the cop behind me.
He tailed me 10 miles before hitting the siren and got my attention.

I apologized for not seeing him, told him about Dad and why I was distracted.
Being the prick that he was, he decided to do a dog inspection on the side of the road.

He said we could do it there, or haul me into the station and do it down there.
Being the total prick that he was, and my urgent need to move, I let the dog go through the truck.

After 45 minutes of him being a prick, and the dog finding nothing, I told him, "I carry a security clearance, and don't do or transport drugs."
Mr. Prick finally had to let me go, but with a stiff ticket for speeding in the Nevada desert.

If you have all day to waste, you can call Mr. Prick on his baloney, then spend all afternoon waiting for his watch commander to arrive, etc, etc.
Sometimes one just has to take getting screwed by prick cops so they can move on with their lives.

Was the prick a NHP?  If he was most are chronically unhappy with the pay compared to LEO's in Lost Wages & Reno.

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4 hours ago, Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001 said:

I ain't got no guns , they was all lost in a boating accident , 

 

  got the report and pictures , of the recovered hull :unsure:

 

  CB 

 

  can't afford another boat either  :o

Do you really think that any judge would buy that excuse 

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My safe is full. :lol:
Unless the Lotto ticket pays off tomorrow. 

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I wonder if this would be a straw purchase.

 

25-year-old you buy the bottle of booze for 17-year-old him. You're buying something for someone that is not legally allowed to buy it themselves. ATF is in charge of that merchandise.

 

Would that be considered a straw purchase, or does straw purchase only apply to firearms?

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1 hour ago, Chili Ron said:

Howdy,

Wonder what the guy would say if the owner said

I hate guns and destroy them as often as I can afford.

The remains were recycled.

 

Wonder.

Best

CR

 


Legal for law enforcement to lie to you.  Illegal for you to lie to law enforcement.

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8 hours ago, bgavin said:

….he decided to do a dog inspection on the side of the road.

He said we could do it there, or haul me into the station and do it down there.
Being the total prick that he was, and my urgent need to move, I let the dog go through the truck.

After 45 minutes of him being a prick, and the dog finding nothing,….


Legally the Officer can only detain you for the period of time it takes to complete the primary reason for the traffic stop, speeding.

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The officer has the gun, the badge and the dog.  He can do what he damn well pleases because very few people have the desire, the resources or the time to come back to a state, engage a lawyer and forge a complaint.

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19 minutes ago, bgavin said:

The officer has the gun, the badge and the dog.  He can do what he damn well pleases because very few people have the desire, the resources or the time to come back to a state, engage a lawyer and forge a complaint.

They may think they can but legally they can't. You can file formal complaint to his office, and other actions . He has to have probable cause for a search.

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1 hour ago, Matthew Duncan said:


Legal for law enforcement to lie to you.  Illegal for you to lie to law enforcement.

I've heard that numerous times on cop shows.

 

But wouldn't passing a law that makes telling a lie illegal be a violation of my first Amendment right of free speech?

 

If I can legally tell the cop, to his face, that his mother turns tricks in Tijuana, why can't I legally tell the cop that I didn't do it?

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Aannnd 5he thread begins to meander. ;)

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You don't argue with a cop. You sue the city and present your case to a judge.

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@Father Kit Cool Gun Garth is right.  I was at the LGS today and was told the current federal administration is putting more pressure on the ATF to enforce a list of things, straw purchases being one. You can hear in the video where the agents say federal told them to.  It is supposed to be focused on stopping felons from getting firearms rather than targeting unlicensed dealers.

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43 minutes ago, Texas Joker said:

You don't argue with a cop. You sue the city and present your case to a judge.

You don't just let them walk all over you either.

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Question,

 

What does a straw purchaser look like and where are they most likely to live?

 

Answer

 

The reason the true monsters are so scary is that they look like us.

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