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Trail boss powder


Big Gus, SASS# 66666
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Sent a note to the Aussie manufacturer of Traill Boss asking if we would get some soon. Here is his answer. 
 

[@@ THALES GROUP LIMITED DISTRIBUTION @@]

 

Hi Werner,

 

Thank you for your email.

 

Trail Boss is unlikely to be released in 2022 and there continues to be an active research and development project associated with its delivery.

 

Kind regards,

 

Hannah Stewart 
Sales and Marketing Coordinator

Australian Munitions

The Thales Australia Centre, WTC Northbank Wharf, Atrium Lobby Level, Siddeley Street
Melbourne, VIC, 3005
Australia

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What is that supose to mean?

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5 hours ago, Nickel City Dude said:

What is that supose to mean?

That is the exact same response they published in April 2021 except the date was 2021 not 2022.

 

I would guess its on the backburner until they sort a number of other issues they are having with the whole range of their powders and facility upgrades.

 

Someone said that a Canadian firm may be looking at making TB and given the number of us asking about it surely its profitable?

 

I would say if you have enough to last you til 2023/24 then crack on, otherwise start looking for what you are going to turn to when your supply runs out. 

 

I realise the above is all assistance short of actual help but I think that's the way it will be.

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Could it have anything to do with the strong support Australia has for the firearms industry (re: ownership)?   Yes, that is firmly tongue in cheek!

Could our strong support from the shores of the Potomac be influencing the strong support in Aussieland?  Again, I can't press it in there much harder.

Hmmmmm... one has to wonder...

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4 hours ago, Major Crimes said:

I would say if you have enough to last you til 2023/24 then crack on, otherwise start looking for what you are going to turn to when your supply runs out. 

 

I have enough TB to last until the end of 2022 I think. So I am looking.

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26 minutes ago, Uncle Ethan # 94321 said:

I have enough TB to last until the end of 2022 I think. So I am looking.

You can load every caliber used in SASS, including 12ga SG with with Unique. 

OLG 

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2 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

You can load every caliber used in SASS, including 12ga SG with with Unique. 

OLG 

Now Lumpy, let's not increase the demand here, eh! LOL. Your right. Wish I had another keg.

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so... I never realized that Hogdon Trail Boss was made with Kangaroo DNA.  

 

Are there any popular replacements that have a similar volume?   I was using 'clays' for everything and then went to Trail Boss.  I really like the Trail Boss but if it is going away, my peanut butter jar sized supply isnt going to last for very long before I need a suitable substitue.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Chuck Steak said:

so... I never realized that Hogdon Trail Boss was made with Kangaroo DNA.  

 

Are there any popular replacements that have a similar volume?   I was using 'clays' for everything and then went to Trail Boss.  I really like the Trail Boss but if it is going away, my peanut butter jar sized supply isnt going to last for very long before I need a suitable substitue.

 

 

 

@The Original Lumpy Gritz you wanna tell him or should I?

 

 

Personally I think Trail Boss sucks. It stinks and is so dirty I'd rather use real black powder(so I do). Find some Alliant Unique; not quite as much volume, but a really good powder. 

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Yeh, if anything will crap up a 45colt Marlin--Trailboss will do it real well. Got tired of having to do major cleaning after every match. Pricey stuff too!

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I use Clays, when Trail Boss 1st came out I tried it but the only thing I could say good about it is it would be hard to double charge a cartridge. I went back to Clays and gave away the Trail Boss I had left a few years ago. Clays works for everything I use in SASS and if you load at the middle of the chart it isn't temperature sensitive, at least not in my experience.

 

Randy

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43 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

Yeh, if anything will crap up a 45colt Marlin--Trailboss will do it real well. Got tired of having to do major cleaning after every match. Pricey stuff too!

What load within velocity rules expands 45 Colt brass well enough to leave chambers cleaner than with Trailboss? Is it the powder or the brass or the chamber sizing? I shoot a JM Marlin 45 Colt Cowboy with Trailboss and Starline brass.

On price, in light of paying three times as much for primers, I won't do too much hand wringing about the relative cost of Trailboss. To get good volume of case fill to view before placing a bullet, I suppose I would look to Clays as an alternative, if I had a good supply. I just have the one jar that I have used to test it in my shotgun loading. I do have plenty of Unique, having bought an 8 pounder some years ago and then setting it pretty much aside in favor of other options.

Edited by Roscoe Regulator
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I use Clays or Clay-Dot these days and go several matches before needing to clean the 45. The wifes 38 stays clean all season.

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6 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

I use Clays or Clay-Dot these days and go several matches before needing to clean the 45. The wifes 38 stays clean all season.

I can't see it in the cartridge before placing a bullet however. Counting on my Dillon to not let me down, knock on wood!

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I count on an RCBS Powder Lock Out die on my Dillons to be my safety net for a double or even empty charge.    They have NEVER failed to detect powder charge screwups, mostly light to empty cases due to interrupting the flow of cases around the axle.   :lol:

 

good luck, GJ

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1 hour ago, Roscoe Regulator said:

What load within velocity rules expands 45 Colt brass well enough to leave chambers cleaner than with Trailboss? Is it the powder or the brass or the chamber sizing? I shoot a JM Marlin 45 Colt Cowboy with Trailboss and Starline brass.

<SNIP>

I recently switched back to using 6.8 gr Unique to drive a 250 gr .454 LRNFP bullet at around 730 f/s from my Colts. 

I did a load test for accuracy using that bullet and WW231, Trail Boss, TiteGroup, Bullseye and Unique.  Unique gave me the best groups from all three of my Colt's.

 

Its clean enough to let me fire a few hundred rounds in any pistol before I get antsy about a dirty gun.  Then I clean it.  Brass goes in a tumbler so it doesn't matter if it gets sooty or not.  My mdl 92's will eat anything I feed them and keep on running, so for my purposes Unique is the powder of choice.

 

I have gone full circle to the powder I started loading .45 Colt in back in 1976!

 

SC

 

 

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4 hours ago, Tyrel Cody said:

 

@The Original Lumpy Gritz you wanna tell him or should I?

 

 

Personally I think Trail Boss sucks. It stinks and is so dirty I'd rather use real black powder(so I do). Find some Alliant Unique; not quite as much volume, but a really good powder. 

That was a Unique statement about how versatile Unique truly is :lol:

BTW, agree 110% about that other powder

OLG 

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4 hours ago, Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 said:

I use Clays, when Trail Boss 1st came out I tried it but the only thing I could say good about it is it would be hard to double charge a cartridge. I went back to Clays and gave away the Trail Boss I had left a few years ago. Clays works for everything I use in SASS and if you load at the middle of the chart it isn't temperature sensitive, at least not in my experience.

 

Randy

Howdy Randy..Yep tis' a dirty powder fer' sure..only really clean with a big bullet, I too used iTB for a while but like you went to our AS30  which is your Clays, mind you that's not much cleaner but I am only using a 160g  in .45's.

No matter what is said TB & Clays will not be produced again by ADI..'Thales is now the distributor & not hearing good reports about them !!!

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The issue with TrailBoss is that it does not comply with the Registration, Evaluation, Authorization and Restriction of Chemicals directive (REACH). Trailboss is not alone, several other poplar powders also do not comply with REACH.

 

REACH started in the EU and if you want to market goods to the EU your company has to prove that the given product complies. It seems that a very similar directive has been adopted in Australia and ADI is having a tough time developing a formula for TB that does comply. 

 

I suspect that TB is still available in the US and Canada because North America hasn't fully adopted REACH yet. And there is a big enough market in NA that the inability to export to the EU is not a reason to halt production. 

 

Some of you may be familiar with RoHS. This standard also started in the EU and has since spread through out the world. 

 

My bet is that sooner rather than later a standard very similar to REACH will be adopted in the US and Canada. When it is a lot of products will adapt or become unobtanium.  

 

Edited by Sedalia Dave
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One of the things, heck, the main thing, I like about Trail Boss is that even with a maximum load, it has practically no recoil.  I use it in every pistol caliber from .32 S&W to .45 Colt, and I think it's great.

I also use it in rifles.  Things like .30-30, .30-40, .30-'06, .45-70, 7mm Mauser, 8mm Mauser, and a few others.  No, it's not high performance, but it creates negligible recoil loads that are good for 200 to 300 yards.  And that's good enough for me.   I even hit a target once at 500 yards with my .45-70 Trapdoor.   Once.  Out of several tries.   It's capable of accuracy, but I myself am not so much so.  :)

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People have mentioned other powders being just as useful as Trail Boss.  

I want to get some clarification on that.

See my above post for an overview of the calibers I use it for.

What else can be used in such a plethora of calibers, and more importantly, with the low recoil characteristic?

 

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2 hours ago, Painted Mohawk SASS 77785 said:

Howdy Randy..Yep tis' a dirty powder fer' sure..only really clean with a big bullet, I too used iTB for a while but like you went to our AS30  which is your Clays, mind you that's not much cleaner but I am only using a 160g  in .45's.

No matter what is said TB & Clays will not be produced again by ADI..'Thales is now the distributor & not hearing good reports about them !!!

I had heard Clays was being produced in Canada now. If that dries up I'll try Clay Dot (loading my shotgun shells with it now to save my Clays) or Red Dot.

 

Randy

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Well , I have some , and would trade it to anyone I shoot with for a similar amount of Unique , 231 , Clays , or Universal Clays. Face to face will limit who I swap with pretty serious. Not many close-by clubs here.

I'm thinking it is more than a pound , but less than two lbs. I bought it back when it was supposed to be THE ANSWER , didn't care for it.

Rex :D

Edited by Rex M Rugers #6621
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2 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

Trail Boss ... even with a maximum load, it has practically no recoil. 

 

Ballistics knowledge and even Isaac Newton's experiments shows that a no-recoil firearm is impossible if you use anything but a zero weight bullet.  Or you vent most of the combustion gas rearward (recoil LESS rifle).

 

The same weight bullet fired at the same muzzle velocity will have a felt recoil very close to identical, whatever powder is used as a propellant.   

 

If recoil is too much for your needs, cut back on the powder charge.  Or select a lighter bullet.

 

good luck, GJ

Edited by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708
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3 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

One of the things, heck, the main thing, I like about Trail Boss is that even with a maximum load, it has practically no recoil.  I use it in every pistol caliber from .32 S&W to .45 Colt, and I think it's great.

I also use it in rifles.  Things like .30-30, .30-40, .30-'06, .45-70, 7mm Mauser, 8mm Mauser, and a few others.  No, it's not high performance, but it creates negligible recoil loads that are good for 200 to 300 yards.  And that's good enough for me.   I even hit a target once at 500 yards with my .45-70 Trapdoor.   Once.  Out of several tries.   It's capable of accuracy, but I myself am not so much so.  :)

There really ain't any when you add true rifle calibers 

OLG 

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I read awhile back in one of the Aussie gun rags that some of the Aussie artillery shells use up to 20 -30 kilos (depending on shell) of Trail Boss.

 

I've looked everywhere to reference the article but can't find it. I'm sure it was in the SSAA mag, any other Aussies remember reading the article?

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so , whats going on really ? we have powder companies deleting the powders we use , the last black powder company in this country goes out of business and the last lead smelter does the same , the ammo companies are not supplying the sellers and all components are hard to find ...i get price driving , but really whats going on here ? 

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23 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

You can load every caliber used in SASS, including 12ga SG with with Unique. 

OLG 

Unique and BP is all you need to load about anything really .

Unique is the smoless version of BP .

It will work in anythig . 

It dont do anything Great but it does anything good .

Just sayin .

Rooster 

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1 hour ago, Rooster Ron Wayne said:

Unique and BP is all you need to load about anything really .

Unique is the smoless version of BP .

It will work in anythig . 

It dont do anything Great but it does anything good .

Just sayin .

Rooster 

I found Unique ceasing to be useful above moderate level loadings. I set it completely aside for any magnums, given better choices for less thumpy and punishing recoil. It has done very well for me on the lower end of most anything. Have not tried it on shotshell.

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2 hours ago, Rooster Ron Wayne said:

Unique is the smoless version of BP .

 

Please elaborate on that.

Can it be used in antique cartridge guns?  Do you just fill the case with some light compression?  Are there "Trapdoor safe" loads for it?   How is the recoil?  Can you use it in rifle as well as pistol cartridges?

Inquiring mind wishes to know.  :) 

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