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Monthly Match Stage Confidentiality


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This has been asked here previously, but I cannot find the thread.  So I'll ask forgiveness for asking it again.  

Do your clubs publish stages in advance of your monthly matches, or do you hold them confidential until posted at the match or read by the Posse Martial?  

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A lot of the clubs here post them, in advance, on their websites.

Some do not.

I've seen shooters get the stages a couple weeks in advance and still screw it up. :D

 

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I often don't write them until the morning of the match. I get out there early and move the steel about, set the stages, and set up. So they can't be shared ahead of time.  They're based on whatever happens to be going on in my head at the time.  I have a number of props on hand if I choose to use them. 

 

Stage descriptions are simple, hand written, and have the needed info.  We do a walk through with a hand written copy for each posse.  It works for us. 

 

Keep it simple, keep it fun.

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We've had several requests for this from some of our shooters since our new website went online last year.  This year we decided to experiment by  publishing the stages on the Monday before our Sunday shoots, and the response has been very favorable, with a large number of "thank-you's," even from the veteran shooters. 

We have been very fortunate to have several new/newer shooters this year, and they especially seem to like the posting.  Being able to read through and get a handle on the sequences ahead of time allows them to concentrate on their routines/procedures without the additional pressure of having to hear the instructions "cold" and then quickly evaluate their approach to the stage along with everything else - fewer mistakes and improving scores keep them coming back.

Also, as a posse leader, I have noticed that I am usually getting fewer questions - from both veterans and "newbies" alike - at the conclusion of my presentations...Shooters are quickly ready to go, with fewer folks hanging back to "study," and the posse seems to move along a bit more quickly.  In all, I am happy with the experiment so far.

 

CS

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I wouldn't bother looking at them even if available. No, I do not post stages ahead of the match. They may change during set up, then an addendum would be necessary. We don't shoot at any clubs that post scenarios early either. 

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31 minutes ago, Assassin said:

I wouldn't bother looking at them even if available. No, I do not post stages ahead of the match. They may change during set up, then an addendum would be necessary. We don't shoot at any clubs that post scenarios early either. 

Didn't we talk about publishing inaccurate stages...just so that we can dominate the competition?

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49 minutes ago, Assassin said:

I wouldn't bother looking at them even if available. No, I do not post stages ahead of the match. They may change during set up, then an addendum would be necessary. We don't shoot at any clubs that post scenarios early either. 

 

At big matches I don't look at them ahead of time either.  I always wait for the walkthrough so I can ask questions, and there's always the possibility of changes after publication.

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We post our stages every Monday before our Sunday shoot. New shooters appreciate it. Veteran shooters don't give a cra......Hoot. Some other clubs in the area also post and some don't. 

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Posted (edited)

I am a firm believer (if the club has the ability) in posting stages online ahead of time.  Both for monthlies and annual events.

"They may require adjustment" is really not a big enough obstacle to require foregoing the whole process.

 

The shooters that prefer to study appreciate the posting.

The shooters that are unsure of certain sequences appreciate the posting.

The shooters that wish to check out another clubs matches, stage writing or philosophy appreciate the posting.

AND

The shooters that don't care won't look at them anyways.

There is no downside to it.

Edited by Creeker, SASS #43022
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^^^ This! If you don't want to see them, don't look.

I usually write the stages months (many) in advance, then tweak and adjust and post about a week in advance of the match.

Heck, I write and can still figure out a way to screw em up!

I really do enjoy going on other clubs' websites and seeing what they do.

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6 hours ago, Assassin said:

I wouldn't bother looking at them even if available. No, I do not post stages ahead of the match. They may change during set up, then an addendum would be necessary. We don't shoot at any clubs that post scenarios early either. 

Ditto!  Same goes for our club.  No one around here seems to do it that I know of.

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5 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

I am a firm believer (if the club has the ability) in posting stages online ahead of time.  Both for monthlies and annual events.

"They may require adjustment" is really not a big enough obstacle to require foregoing the whole process.

 

The shooters that prefer to study appreciate the posting.

The shooters that are unsure of certain sequences appreciate the posting.

The shooters that wish to check out another clubs matches, stage writing or philosophy appreciate the posting.

AND

The shooters that don't care won't look at them anyways.

There is no downside to it.

I agree 100%!  No downside but plenty of benefits, especially to new shooters.   And as match director for our state wild bunch match which draws 60+ shooters I post them a week ahead of time so those traveling know the round count per stage.  I also post them because I write the stages and this way people can't say I have an advantage because I knew the stage ahead of time and they did not.  I too like to see what other clubs do and possibly grab ideas from them.

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We post the stages for the monthly Damascus Wildlife Rangers matches in advance, sometimes a couple weeks, sometimes a couple days, and on one occasion it was just a few hours before setup. :blush:  The previous match director was religious about it, posting them almost a month in advance.

 

As some of our shooters get older, and their "remembery ain't what it used to be" they appreciate the advance information.  New shooters, who are still trying to figure out what a Nevada Sweep is, appreciate the ability to sort things out before getting to the range.  Most shooters, at least in my experience, tend to wait until they are on the bay to find out what the scenario will be.

 

As Creeker said above, there is no real downside, it helps some, hurts no one, and provides a little advertisement for the club.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L said:

...As some of our shooters get older, and their "remembery ain't what it used to be" they appreciate the advance information.  ...

Shucks.  Can't remember what the stage scenario is even if I the first shooter!

 

Big matches I'd read the printed stage scenarios in my motel room the night before.  Work out in my head the most efficient way to shoot though the stage.  Next morning listen to the Posse Leader tell us about the "minor" changes to that stage's scenario.  Then when I hear the beep I accidentally default to the mode I practiced in my head the night before.   Confusing me with facts when I already have my mind made up.  Now I'm in the "don't read in advance" crowd.

 

I use to operated the sound system at church.  I'd be at practice on Wednesday night before the Sunday service.  Another practice the Sunday during Sunday School.  I've got my refined notes on volume levels and accompanying music.  Too often, a few minutes before the service starts, I'd be told of changes.  Then why have the "Sound man" attend the practices if they want him to wing it at the last minute?

Edited by Matthew Duncan
fix typos I'll blame on autocorrect.
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1 minute ago, Matthew Duncan said:

I use to operated the sound system at church.  I'd be at practice on Wednesday night before the Sunday service.  Another practice the Sunday during Sunday School.  I've got my refined notes on volume levels and accompanying music.  Too often, a few minutes before the service starts, I'd be told of changes.  Then why have the "Sound man" attend the practices if they want him to wing it at the last minute?

 

I had to laugh at this as I too recently "retired" from running the sound system at Church.  For the weekly service, it was always "Wing It & Pray" but for the Christmas and Easter cantatas, I was there for practices and had notes in the song book, sticky note tags where certain mics would be on or off for solos etc.  Dang book looked like a porcupine! :lol:

 

Back in the day, my wife was the choir leader and my son used to run the equipment with another younger person.  When that person moved, I got volunteered to help my son and when he went off to College about 15 years ago, I was left with the job.  To this day, I am still amazed that they even let a deaf/blind guy like me touch the audio/visual equipment much less be responsible to run it!  :P

 

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1 minute ago, Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L said:

 

... even let a deaf/blind guy like me touch the audio/visual equipment much less be responsible to run it!  :P

 

 

I unvolunteered my sound board days when several folks asked me (after the service) what the high pitched whine was throughout the service?  "What high pitched whine?" Was my answer.  Time for younger ears!

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6 minutes ago, Matthew Duncan said:

 

I unvolunteered my sound board days when several folks asked me (after the service) what the high pitched whine was throughout the service?  "What high pitched whine?" Was my answer.  Time for younger ears!

 

We have an elevated sound room above at the end opposite the choir loft.  I used to just watch for the cringe of the folks in the choir then dial back the monitor volume until they stopped.  Feedback?  I don't hear no stinkin' feedback!

 

3uw9ag.jpg

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We nearly always email upcoming scenarios to our shooters a few days to a week ahead of time.  As already stated, no downside I’ve ever heard of.  Another upside is; I think we garner more interest in the match and get a shooter or two who might have forgot about the upcoming match or just think the scenarios look fun.

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9 hours ago, Major BS Walker Regulator said:

We post our stages every Monday before our Sunday shoot. New shooters appreciate it. Veteran shooters don't give a cra......Hoot. Some other clubs in the area also post and some don't. 

When I first started shooting matches with the Cavalier Cowboys I appreciated receiving the stages in advance, it allowed me to become familiar with the match in advance, get a good idea what to expect on match day, and ask any questions first thing on match day for anything I didn't understand.  I think in that case it was a positive and enhanced my experience.  For the clubs that didn't, I learned a lot very quickly which looking back was also a positive.  Every club I have shot at was very helpful in getting me up to speed quickly and even today I tend to ask a lot of questions so I understand the rules and protocols better.  Now, I tend not to look at the matches if sent out in advance.  I also try and help set up matches as often as I can, typically there is a walk through and any kinks in the match get worked out then.  

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12 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

Its more fun to beat your competition if you keep the stage scenarios a secret... ;)

 

..........Widder

 

There seems to be a local curse that stage writers get procedurals on their own stages.  Secrecy does not work here. 

 

I only look at stages in advance to see stages that might require special ammunition.  For example plate racks where my wife might need full power loads for her .32 handguns or a popup where I might need a stout blackpowder load to loft a target above a blackpowder cloud.  I find pictures in stage descriptions are not to scale and I need to shoot a stage differently once I see the actual setup.

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34 minutes ago, Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 said:

There seems to be a local curse that stage writers get procedurals on their own stages.  Secrecy does not work here. 

 

I only look at stages in advance to see stages that might require special ammunition.  For example plate racks where my wife might need full power loads for her .32 handguns or a popup where I might need a stout blackpowder load to loft a target above a blackpowder cloud.  I find pictures in stage descriptions are not to scale and I need to shoot a stage differently once I see the actual setup.

You're right about the curse.  In March, I wrote our monthly stages.  On the 5th stage, I got my third Procedural.  I was so distracted that I forgot to go to the unloading table and got an SDQ on top of it.  When I do the match set up, the scenarios tend to run together in my brain, and the 2,3,3,2s come out like 3,2,2,3s. I predictably pick up Ps whenever I write stages.

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5 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Three of the four local clubs post stages in advance.   This Saturday's stages are already up.  Sometimes I look at them, sometimes I don't, depends on how busy I am.

I think most experienced shooters get little benefit from seeing them in advance.  But it definitely seems to help new and less experienced ones, IMO. 

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Only thing I like to see is if there is 5 feet of water covering the area or not as my cap guns don't like water waist deep or higher.   :D

 

I don't look as it is to time consuming knowing they could and some will change.

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Posted (edited)

For all the reasons listed by Count Sandor we post the stages on our FB page and our club website about a week before the match.  The stages are prepared with Power Point so it does not take that much additional time to convert them to a pdf format and post.  New shooters, as well as several experienced shooters, appreciate this. 

Edited by Black Hills Drifter
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The OTHER reason(s) for posting early is for "new to your club" shooters to

Maybe familiarize themselves with any "named" sweeps that might be new to them (or they know as a different name).

 

Maybe to prepare if knockdown rounds are needed.

Maybe to prepare if flyers are present.

Maybe to build interest or excitement for your match.

 

And by far the most important - to avoid any perceived home field advantages for the hosting club/ match director.

 

Posting ahead of time is just good public relations.

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13 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

The OTHER reason(s) for posting early is for "new to your club" shooters to

Maybe familiarize themselves with any "named" sweeps that might be new to them (or they know as a different name).

 

Maybe to prepare if knockdown rounds are needed.

Maybe to prepare if flyers are present.

Maybe to build interest or excitement for your match.

 

And by far the most important - to avoid any perceived home field advantages for the hosting club/ match director.

 

Posting ahead of time is just good public relations.

Thank you for a very thoughtful reply.  Lots of very good points there.  It's interesting reading the diverse opinions here.  

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Once again, if SASS gets their marketing campaign going, we may have enough shooters to step up and complete extra stuff. Until then, everything's a secret at our club.  If everyone wants new stuff we need new shooters. 

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I've shared this story before but sometimes it warrants a repeat.

 

About 15+ years ago when I started SASS/CAS, one of the more common stages was

the Nevada Sweep, either single tap or double tap.

 

So, guess what I did..... I practice nothing but a Nevada Sweep for a whole blame month, just to

blaze thru a Nevada Sweep stage with my pistols and possibly be the fastest time on that stage.

Well, Ole Widder gets the 'beep', draws both pistols (GF Style) and earns a 'P' on my 2nd shot because

I hit target #2 with a single tap.   Scenario called for a Double Tap.

 

The stage instructions were as simple as they could be but my brain was working overtime to

blast away, which I did, on the wrong target.  :lol:

 

I seldom look at stage scenarios, even at state matches.   I have a tendency to overthink them.

 

..........Widder

 

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1 hour ago, Assassin said:

Once again, if SASS gets their marketing campaign going, we may have enough shooters to step up and complete extra stuff. Until then, everything's a secret at our club.  If everyone wants new stuff we need new shooters. 

With all due respect - IF is the largest word in the English language.

So IF you or your club don't WANT to post stages ahead of time; because its stupid or time wasting or unnecessary or unwanted - then say so.

It is your club and your decision - You don't even have to defend your choice.

 

But to imply the actual act of posting stages online (about 5 minutes 1 time a month) is too challenging without an influx of members and new shooters.

And the only way that influx is going to happen is IF SASS gets those new members and shooters for you?

  

I'm sorry - it doesn't fly.

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I could tell you but then I would have to kill you.:ph34r:

 

I mainly shoot at two clubs.  One posts the stages one does not.  For the one that does I print them off because I always help with set-up on the Friday before the Saturday match and we use the diagrams for set-up.  The next day people ask me about the scenario and I tell them to wait for the posse marshall to read the stage.  Many say "well you helped set-up."  And I reply yes I helped set up.  I put the targets where they are shown on the stage diagram.  I don't read the stage description.  I am just cheap labor.

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So, @Creeker, SASS #43022 posts a good point about availability. I know of several clubs that do not post them online, but email them out to their list.

 

While that may be effective in getting the stages out to your regulars on your list, it does nothing for folks who may be visiting.

 

Even worse yet, I have heard tales of clubs purposely putting things in their matches that benefit only those who receive the stages ahead of time. That's not right either. 

 

 

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