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Mustang Gregg

RO 1 classes for ALL?

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:FlagAm::FlagAm::FlagAm::FlagAm::FlagAm:

 

We were getting off the subject on the thread about eliminating the spotters.

So I reckoned we better get a new one started for this subject.  And it might be a dead horse issue.

 

Would it be a bad thing to make a SASS membership requirement that you must attend an RO 1 class every so many years?

It would keep more folks up on what SASS is about, SASS rules, safety, spotting, etc.

 

In our area, we have classes offered yearly or just by asking.

But we get less than 1% participation, even when advertised to all members.

 

Just askin'

Mustang Gregg

 

 

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Theoretically I think it would be great if all our shooters had at least RO1 certification.  Practically I think it wouldn't work, SASS would lose members who were unwilling to take the class and don't shoot at enough big matches to care about losing their membership.

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I believe it should be required within 1 year of the first match a person shoots in. 

 

I also wish we could figure out how to shorten the RO1 class so that it doesn't take half a day to do it.

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1 minute ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Would there be any way it could be an on-line deal?

OLG

 

This was discussed on Facebook recently. I think it's doable, others don't. A video conference on a Sunday afternoon wouldn't be that hard to pull off. The test portion would be a little more tricky but I'm sure we could put our heads together and make an online form to handle it. 

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13 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said:

I believe it should be required within 1 year of the first match a person shoots in. 

 

I also wish we could figure out how to shorten the RO1 class so that it doesn't take half a day to do it.

I taught HS for 14 years and still work in education.  I think that class could be shortened to 2.5 hours and still get the necessary information across. 

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I am new to the sport, and am always looking to learn more.  I am in a job where we do a significant portion of training,  some of which is mandated by the state, online.  So I believe that a lot of training can be successfully accomplished via on line.  Also, in this day and age where almost everyone has way too many things over scheduled in their lives, an on line training would allow more people to get the material.   just my thoughts

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4 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said:

 

This was discussed on Facebook recently. I think it's doable, others don't. A video conference on a Sunday afternoon wouldn't be that hard to pull off. The test portion would be a little more tricky but I'm sure we could put our heads together and make an online form to handle it. 

Also, thinking it could be used to re-certify the RO instructors.

OLG

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Where is the topic discussed on Facebook?  Also does anyone know where I can view the video of the shoot off in California between the Cowboy Shooter and the Modern Three Gun or USFSA shooters?  I believe it featured Badlands Bud, Lead Dispenser and Holy Terror.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Kirk James said:

Where is the topic discussed on Facebook?  Also does anyone know where I can view the video of the shoot off in California between the Cowboy Shooter and the Modern Three Gun or USFSA shooters?  I believe it featured Badlands Bud, Lead Dispenser and Holy Terror.

 

 

 

You have to be a member of the SASS Guns & Ammo Group. I think I can add you if you aren't. 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1069005913211728/permalink/1206094002836251/

 

 

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I would just be pleased if TOs at local matches would take the time to take RO classes.  I'm tired of being penalized by ignorant TO's who lack training.  At least at major matches I work with range officials who actually know the rules.   Just because one knows how to press the start button on a PACT timer does not make one fully prepared to be a SASS range official.

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The NRA presents their Range Safety Officer course and others on line.  The test is also administered on line with instant grading.  It works very well.  The question for SASS would be the cost and the level of interest.

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That's like making a class on Elvis Presley history mandatory for a Bachelor's degree...

 

Some of the worst informed shooters are the ones that have taken the RO course. They think they know it all cuz they're "educated".

 

All one needs to do is read the manual, spend time shooting matches in a role that doesn't require decision making... Keep your mouth shut for a while and learn.

 

But hey, that's just me...

 

Phantom

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I ain't so sure ROI would be the answer when Black Pin's don't even agree on some rules, etc.....like the

one who wanted to give me a 'P' a couple years back because I changed leads during my pistol run as a

GF.    He told me that GFer's were required to alternate every shot from each pistol.

 

Phantom makes a good point, of which I can be guilty of also.....I need to re-read our books.

 

I like to think I learn from the wire, but when some of our 'learned' Pards have different interpretations

of some rules, its hard to convince yeowndangself that 'I' have it right.

 

..........Widder

 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Red Jack said:

The NRA presents their Range Safety Officer course and others on line.  The test is also administered on line with instant grading.  It works very well.  The question for SASS would be the cost and the level of interest.

 

Unfortunately:

 

You must be a currently certified NRA instructor in a firearms discipline to participate in this online course. 

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Overall a great idea.  The downside is that there are so few Black pins and the number is dropping.  How do you enforce a requirement when the class is not available??

 

BS

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I've been RO'ing now for about 5 years. I've only ever saw one RO1 class offered in the area where I live. It was about 4 years ago and it got cancelled due to a snow storm. I'd love to take the course but the question is where can I get it within a 50 mile radius of me? An online course would be better than nothing. I remember when all of the Boy Scout adult leader training were done by attending a course. Now all the required training is done online. It's hard to get young people today to have to attend a course. You have to adapt....

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2 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Would there be any way it could be an on-line deal?

OLG

 

I don't see why not.  There is only one class, one time a year in my state.

 

Today you can get a college degree on-line.

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22 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

I ain't so sure ROI would be the answer when Black Pin's don't even agree on some rules, etc.....like the

one who wanted to give me a 'P' a couple years back because I changed leads during my pistol run as a

GF.    He told me that GFer's were required to alternate every shot from each pistol.

 

Phantom makes a good point, of which I can be guilty of also.....I need to re-read our books.

 

I like to think I learn from the wire, but when some of our 'learned' Pards have different interpretations

of some rules, its hard to convince yeowndangself that 'I' have it right.

 

..........Widder

 

 

 

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you Widder.  Yes us black pins don't always agree, but usually when there is disagreement it's about some one of a kind WTC thread that is very unique.  It's rarely about something as straightforward as whether GFer's have to alternate shots.  Pretty disappointing that a black pin wouldn't know that!  The RO1 and RO2 classes are not designed to deal with those WTC type questions, they're intended to present the more common rules about which most of us are on the same page.   Yes there are cowboys out there who can read the book and that's all they need.  More power to them.  But, there are plenty of them who benefit from taking a class as well.

 

BTW,  Kid Flash had a pretty decent match last Saturday with his Widder Soft Stroke.  He's still fighting cross eye domininance but he's getting there.  he went 8 for 8 on a pendulum target.  I included a video of him on the New SASS shooter thread I started if you're interested.

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13 minutes ago, High Spade Mikey Wilson said:

I've been RO'ing now for about 5 years. I've only ever saw one RO1 class offered in the area where I live. It was about 4 years ago and it got cancelled due to a snow storm. I'd love to take the course but the question is where can I get it within a 50 mile radius of me? An online course would be better than nothing. I remember when all of the Boy Scout adult leader training were done by attending a course. Now all the required training is done online. It's hard to get young people today to have to attend a course. You have to adapt....

Pinned to the top of the SASS wire page is a list of RO instructors by state with contact info for each one. Reach out to those that are in your state and tell them you need a refresher.  

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14 minutes ago, Nichols Creek, SASS #77627 said:

Pinned to the top of the SASS wire page is a list of RO instructors by state with contact info for each one. Reach out to those that are in your state and tell them you need a refresher.  

Be aware that document is out of date.  Some of us did not receive our renewal notices and so were not listed initially.  If you click on the link you will get the up to date version.

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22 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you Widder.  Yes us black pins don't always agree, but usually when there is disagreement it's about some one of a kind WTC thread that is very unique.  It's rarely about something as straightforward as whether GFer's have to alternate shots.  Pretty disappointing that a black pin wouldn't know that!  The RO1 and RO2 classes are not designed to deal with those WTC type questions, they're intended to present the more common rules about which most of us are on the same page.   Yes there are cowboys out there who can read the book and that's all they need.  More power to them.  But, there are plenty of them who benefit from taking a class as well.

 

BTW,  Kid Flash had a pretty decent match last Saturday with his Widder Soft Stroke.  He's still fighting cross eye domininance but he's getting there.  he went 8 for 8 on a pendulum target.  I included a video of him on the New SASS shooter thread I started if you're interested.

 

Capt.

I'm always happy to hear about the young folks doing well.

It seems I'm learning new upgrades all the time with the Soft Stroke mods.   If I gather up a couple more

mods, I'll let you know and we'll get those upgrades in that rifle... same deal as before.

 

Where do I find that SASS shooter thread?

 

.........Widder

 

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1 minute ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Be aware that document is out of date.  Some of us did not receive our renewal notices and so were not listed initially.  If you click on the link you will get the up to date version.

Thanks, I should have mentioned that.  

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1 minute ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

Capt.

I'm always happy to hear about the young folks doing well.

It seems I'm learning new upgrades all the time with the Soft Stroke mods.   If I gather up a couple more

mods, I'll let you know and we'll get those upgrades in that rifle... same deal as before.

 

Where do I find that SASS shooter thread?

 

.........Widder

 

https://forums.sassnet.com/index.php?/topic/284455-new-sass-shooter/

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We have it as a requirement for club membership. New member has to take RO 1 class at earliest opportunity. This usually falls at the State Match or Members Appreciation.  

I also believe it is a great idea for anybody who has taken RO 1 to audit a class every so often. 

The rules change, memories fade. 

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57 minutes ago, High Spade Mikey Wilson said:

I've been RO'ing now for about 5 years. I've only ever saw one RO1 class offered in the area where I live. It was about 4 years ago and it got cancelled due to a snow storm. I'd love to take the course but the question is where can I get it within a 50 mile radius of me? An online course would be better than nothing. I remember when all of the Boy Scout adult leader training were done by attending a course. Now all the required training is done online. It's hard to get young people today to have to attend a course. You have to adapt....

I know it's a drive for you, but the courses (I & II) are being offered at the state match.  
It's unfortunate that instructors in our parts are few and far between.

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Forgive my ignorance (I'm a new shooter), but what do RO1&2 classes consist of or go over?  

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Guest Texas jack Black SASS#9362

:FlagAm:

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5 minutes ago, Texas jack Black SASS#9362 said:

Why not just read the rules .Treating all SASS members as if they are children is not going to work. You are suggesting that all comply . So we pay to join SASS ,pay to shoot ,work the matches and then are forced into class. Not going to happen.  Just another cut. :FlagAm: 

What percentage of shooters even know where the rulebook is, much less read it? 

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7 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said:

What percentage of shooters even know where the rulebook is, much less read it? 

About the same percentage that have read the rules of Golf.

 

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I may be mistaken but if I recall correctly ... back in 2005 or so when I started ... there were specific recommendations to bar new shooters for several months or even a year of membership before taking the RO1 class.

 

This was of course (I assume) to allow a new shooter time to acquire some basic idea of exactly what was going on.

It is a lot to digest ... most new shooters will take a while to figure out their initial gear; category; outfit etc etc ... enough to be able to even start attending matches. 

 

Power Points used to be available for the RO1 course (perhaps they still are) ... Having them content current and available online would allow any shooter (new or otherwise) to spend some time making sure they understood what was really being discussed. This would allow potential attendees an opportunity to prepare themselves for the "real" course ... be a little more enthusiastic about doing so and get a lot more out of the time they spent there. 

 

If fact ... I would think it would be a waste of a lot of the attendees time to bring a group of people together for a classe w/o offering them something to prepare themselves (besides the entire rulebook alone).

 

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We have 4 new shooters in my club, maybe 6, but all are struggling with the cost of the sport and integrating it into their work, school, family and other interests.   If they can manage to get out once a month, it's great.  I think it's (pick your negative expletive) to add another requirement when we are trying to recruit new shooters.

 

An online course for those would like it would be great to get those who would like to know the rules better.  I don't think is should replace the present RO1 course.

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Required RO1 for everyone... no thanks.  We are having enough trouble keeping shooters interested.  Shooters that are enthusiastic and show up at matches with the right attitude is all I need.  A good Match Director and good Range Officer can get everyone up to speed on safety and the important rules so they can enjoy the shooting.  

 

An online version of courses is a great idea if we can actually get movement in that direction.  There are great online teaching and evaluation platforms out there  (I am an IT Director in a school) that allow for tracking of how much of the videos were watched and online testing.  This isn't rocket science so straight forward quizzes and video instruction would work for many.  Those who don't like online resources should continue to get face to face instructions from the Black Badges, who in our area (Ohio) are really good.

 

Ohio does their concealed carry courses and testing entirely online.  If that can work then RO1 level training should work.

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1 hour ago, July Smith said:

Forgive my ignorance (I'm a new shooter), but what do RO1&2 classes consist of or go over?  

 

July, you can look over the course material here.  https://www.sassnet.com/Shooters-Handbook-001A.php
In a capsule, RO I is recommended for everyone to take at one time or another.  RO II is recommended if you want to get into things a little deeper...writing stages and such.

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