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Mustang Gregg

RO 1 classes for ALL?

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1 hour ago, Wyatt said:

What is the minimum number of RO 1, 2’s you should have on each posse at a state or above SASS match?

A one, a two, a three.... crunch!

 

The answer is three.

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I can't even get people to sign up as posse leaders for our annual matches. The guys that have volunteered for years are burnt out and no one wants to assume the responsibility anymore. Back to the "we need some young blood" thing.

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Please educate me. Is the RO test written answers or multiple choice?

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19 minutes ago, Wyatt said:

What is the minimum number of RO 1, 2’s you should have on each posse at a state or above SASS match?

Based on what Jack said I think you need at least 6.  The TO, the three spotters, one of whom could be the scorekeeper, and the ULT and LT officers.

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Just now, Marshal Chance Morgun said:

Please educate me. Is the RO test written answers or multiple choice?

Multiple guess.

 

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1 minute ago, Marshal Chance Morgun said:

Please educate me. Is the RO test written answers or multiple choice?

Multiple choice.

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1 hour ago, Assassin said:

I can't even get people to sign up as posse leaders for our annual matches. The guys that have volunteered for years are burnt out and no one wants to assume the responsibility anymore. Back to the "we need some young blood" thing.

I'll be a posse leader;)

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21 minutes ago, Wyatt said:

What is the minimum number of RO 1, 2’s you should have on each posse at a state or above SASS match?

By contract with SASS. All match officials are required to be RO-1 certified.

Match officials include

Posse Marshall

Berm Marshall

Expediter

Timing Operator

Spotter

Score Keeper

Range Master

March Director

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Based on what Jack said I think you need at least 6.  The TO, the three spotters, one of whom could be the scorekeeper, and the ULT and LT officers.

 

What do you do when they go to shoot?

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4 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Multiple choice.

 

Ok. The RO manual is on line. What would be wrong with putting the test on line? Not as a way to certify someone, but as a way to show you what you know and, more importantly, what you need you know?

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3 minutes ago, Wyatt said:

 

What do you do when they go to shoot?

Good point, probably help to have a couple of spares at least.

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13 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

> snip <

So you know ALL the rules without referencing the rule book (s)???

> snip <

No ... of course not ... I just accept/pretend that somebody at the match does .... and shoot ... and try not to get concerned if a crowd forms and arguments ensue.

IMHO that happens much less these days. 

 

Even w/ all the rule books it is hard ... as you know ... and as demonstrated here so often (WTC).

 

I used to go through the rule books and try to think "where did that come from??" ... thinking ... what could have possibly happened to one of the "rule makers" that caused them to state/define some rules the way they did. You could tell there was an "event" somewhere or some practice/equipment/personal beef in play just by the wording or odd specifics.

 

I don't do that anymore  ... Assassin hit the nail on the head ... "we need some young blood thing"!!

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So.......8-10 or about half the posse :blink:

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13 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Based on what Jack said I think you need at least 6.  The TO, the three spotters, one of whom could be the scorekeeper, and the ULT and LT officers.

That would be the base, now take your number times 2 or 3.  That's what you need to rotate everyone through shooting and covering the required positions. That's why it is usually called a working posse.

 

BS

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13 minutes ago, Marshal Chance Morgun said:

 

Ok. The RO manual is on line. What would be wrong with putting the test on line? Not as a way to certify someone, but as a way to show you what you know and, more importantly, what you need you know?

As a former teacher I'm not sure about that.  Very easy to memorize a pattern of letters then just write those in on the test.  Not many would do that, but some might.  Also not hard to create a canned lecture and have the students watch that before the class.

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3 minutes ago, Wyatt said:

So.......8-10 or about half the posse :blink:

Hey I'm just calculating based on the contract SASS uses and MDs sign.  I didn't write it, sign it, or propose it.

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The last time that I sat in on a ROI class you couldn't find all the answers in the ROI material.  You had to reference the Shooters Handbook. Poor design of the test, IMO.

 

BS

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17 minutes ago, Ace_of_Hearts said:

By contract with SASS. All match officials are required to be RO-1 certified.

Match officials include

Posse Marshall

Berm Marshall

Expediter

Timing Operator

Spotter

Score Keeper

Range Master

March Director

 

 

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

This don't happen!

 

Expediter??? Never asked if they have an ROI...bad me!!!!

Spotters??? Hell, just give me folks that know how to spot and are willing to do it!  I'll take a competent Turtle if he's good.

Score keeper???? God, just give me someone that has decent hearing and legible writing.

Berm marshall??? We have no stinkin' berms!!!!

 

Lord...give me patience...

 

Phantom

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2 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

 

Lord...give me patience...

 

Phantom

He did :huh:

You've been forced to use up your allotment, early in life is all.........:lol:

OLG

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I think it would be a mistake to make RO certification mandatory to play this game. 

The RO 1 coarse, test and cirtification should be conducted on line without fee and available to any SASS member. Recertification should be handled the exact same way.

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23 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

That's like making a class on Elvis Presley history mandatory for a Bachelor's degree...

 

Some of the worst informed shooters are the ones that have taken the RO course. They think they know it all cuz they're "educated".

 

All one needs to do is read the manual, spend time shooting matches in a role that doesn't require decision making... Keep your mouth shut for a while and learn.

 

But hey, that's just me...

Bravo......

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Good Day all,

 

Interesting topic, been thoroughly going through the RO1 course recently and have transferred/redone on PPT. I agree that recommended time is way to long for a RO1 course and the contents of it could be streamlined; Even omitting things have 93 slides (but do believe still can get way under the recommended 4-5 hrs).

 

For example items such as difference of Rim fire and center fire? I would bet on black 99% of folks exploring this sport are relativity versed in shooting sports all ready, Breaking out what makes a round go pew, how it exits the weapon. My point is this is not a NRA Basic Pistol class and the RO1 book has even reminded us Page 7 RO1 handbook "This course is not intended to be an introductory course to Cowboy Action Shooting" so couldn't we cut out some of the very new shooter info? The goal of the RO1 book as stated " Purpose of SASS RO Training-Consistency A standardized set of rules for all to follow eliminates grey areas......" So should we be just that focusing on the rules and not basic introductory shooter info?

 

NRA has changed to online, but understand this is challenging for SASS due to funds, but would solve a lot. I agree with a lot of the prior statements RO1 could use a revamp, and updating just in format alone, now with that so I am not the guy saying how about this, how about that, and general good idea fairy, or should do this. So as stated earlier have transferred the course to a more up to date slide show. I have taken directly from RO1 book I have attached and anyone feel free to morph, use, it is highly animated and has a lot of transition so when you open it up and present slide show if nothing is happening give a click and will move on.

 

I am sure there will be plenty of critique on it but my intent is to just share and help folks out from the tedious task of making a Slide show. Oh yah and another valid point form numerous folks, my area we just do not have the classes available readily and taught.

 

Again hope this can help someone/club.

 

Also I have a channel I do short videos on rules; called Tasty Tidbits to help shooters stay versed in a fun way.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4h9YBEUZe_7dKZY45Nx7hw 

 

R/Bootstrap

RO_1_Course.pptx

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33 minutes ago, BootStrap Phil said:

Good Day all,

 

Interesting topic, been thoroughly going through the RO1 course recently and have transferred/redone on PPT. I agree that recommended time is way to long for a RO1 course and the contents of it could be streamlined; Even omitting things have 93 slides (but do believe still can get way under the recommended 4-5 hrs).

 

For example items such as difference of Rim fire and center fire? I would bet on black 99% of folks exploring this sport are relativity versed in shooting sports all ready, Breaking out what makes a round go pew, how it exits the weapon. My point is this is not a NRA Basic Pistol class and the RO1 book has even reminded us Page 7 RO1 handbook "This course is not intended to be an introductory course to Cowboy Action Shooting" so couldn't we cut out some of the very new shooter info? The goal of the RO1 book as stated " Purpose of SASS RO Training-Consistency A standardized set of rules for all to follow eliminates grey areas......" So should we be just that focusing on the rules and not basic introductory shooter info?

 

NRA has changed to online, but understand this is challenging for SASS due to funds, but would solve a lot. I agree with a lot of the prior statements RO1 could use a revamp, and updating just in format alone, now with that so I am not the guy saying how about this, how about that, and general good idea fairy, or should do this. So as stated earlier have transferred the course to a more up to date slide show. I have taken directly from RO1 book I have attached and anyone feel free to morph, use, it is highly animated and has a lot of transition so when you open it up and present slide show if nothing is happening give a click and will move on.

 

I am sure there will be plenty of critique on it but my intent is to just share and help folks out from the tedious task of making a Slide show. Oh yah and another valid point form numerous folks, my area we just do not have the classes available readily and taught.

 

Again hope this can help someone/club.

 

Also I have a channel I do short videos on rules; called Tasty Tidbits to help shooters stay versed in a fun way.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4h9YBEUZe_7dKZY45Nx7hw 

 

R/Bootstrap

RO_1_Course.pptx 15.23 MB · 2 downloads

 

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Patiently waiting to attend the RO1 class, I personally never had the opportunity to attend a session.

I have looked over and read the RO1 and RO2 student hand books.  But I sure would like to attend a session with Capt Burt soon, to learn more about our game!!!

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7 minutes ago, Marshal Ruger said:

Patiently waiting to attend the RO1 class, I personally never had the opportunity to attend a session.

I have looked over and read the RO1 and RO2 student hand books.  But I sure would like to attend a session with Capt Burt soon, to learn more about our game!!!

I will be teaching an RO1 class 10 am Friday 3/29 at Doc Hollidays.  Can you make it?

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42 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

I will be teaching an RO1 class 10 am Friday 3/29 at Doc Hollidays.  Can you make it?

Will you be going straight through until 4 pm or do you plan to take a lunch beak?

 

sb

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11 minutes ago, Snakebite said:

Will you be going straight through until 4 pm or do you plan to take a lunch beak?

 

sb

I don't know.  Until this thread I wasn't aware that I had to go for six hours.  Deuces post indicated 4 hours was enough.  I guess I'll go on the RO Wire and ask.  I really don't like that requirement, I don't like being told how to teach.  Told what to teach OK, how to do it, not so much.

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5 hours ago, Marshal Chance Morgun said:

Please educate me. Is the RO test written answers or multiple choice?

Open book for RO 1

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38 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

I don't know.  Until this thread I wasn't aware that I had to go for six hours.  Deuces post indicated 4 hours was enough.  I guess I'll go on the RO Wire and ask.  I really don't like that requirement, I don't like being told how to teach.  Told what to teach OK, how to do it, not so much.

Well Pard.. it is apparent that the Right hand doesn't know what the Left hand is doing. The email I received and the Official Range Operations Management  Manual  Say 6 hrs minimum. The post that you referred to said it has been cut from 8hr down to 4 hr. All this time and I never realized it was suppose to be 8 hrs. My bad.  The Power Point presentation says 4-5 hrs.... (I missed that, since I never used the Power Point... I just concentrated on knowing the material) Sounds to me like you ought to be able to do it any way you want.... plenty of documentation to support what ever you  decide. What ever you do, I'm pretty sure that YOU will do a great job, and THAT is all that SHOULD matter.... 

 

Snakebite

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I took RO 1 last year, our club requires it. I learned a bit but a fair bit was also old hat since I have been a generic RSO; Block Officer, Line Officer and Pit Officer for High Power before. At 3 hours the class starts to get tedious, at 4 your brain is turning to mush so the new 6 hour requirement is going to be counter productive. A good black pin with sharp students should need anywhere from 2.5 to a most 4 hours for RO 1. I also loathe Power Point having been subjected
To.
Someone.
Reading.
Every.
Single.
Word.
On.
Every.
Single.
Slide.

That.

He.

Copied.

Verbatim.

From.

A.

Federal.

Regulation.
Or.

Standard.
In.

A.

Dead.

Monotone.
Voice.

For.

Three.

And.

A.

Half.

Hours.

Power Point should be used to highlight via a bullet points to enhance a lecture not comprise every single word in a rulebook.

Funny thing, we were given the RO 2 test by mistake and we all passed it, when the mistake was discovered we took the RO 1 test and we all passed that too. I still need to take RO 2 even though I passed the test once already.

 

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Both the ROI and ROII courses could be done in many video segments for each topic all the way through the rule books.  These can then be easily updated and improved as necessary since it isn't a single long presentation.  Anyone can just click on a relevant section and get current additional video explanation of the portion of the rules they want to know more about.

 

Anything needing visual aid, including costume rules, spotting examples, equipment examples and even advanced TO training can be right there to see... anytime.

 

And the best part?  It only has to be done ONCE with only individual segments of it getting updated infrequently as the rules change over time.  And it can have proper oversight for accuracy... since it would probably be the RO committee and the office approving the content.

 

Anyone who has ever watched an online course for any subject at all knows how this works.  The links for the video courses could be right there next to the links for the rule books on the SASS home page.  And we could even link people to the video segments here on the Wire when questions come up about a rule which needs more explanation or a visual example.

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Oh Lord help us... 

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Required? - no.

 

Recommended & encouraged? - yes.

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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The rise and atrophy of an organization is nearly always the same.  All at some point have hardliners ( read rules--mandate a class!), moderates (hey, learn as you go, we're fine) and others (hey dude, leave me alone).

 

The trick to reinvigorate an organization is with new blood (w/o insulting them as soon as they show up) and support them "'raise 'em right."  The problem with that is it could change (or alter) the face of the organization--b/c they bring their ideas/wants too.  At some point do you want people calling SASS "cosplay with guns?"  Probably not. 

 

Of course you can force people to do stuff, but please don't stand around and wonder why your membership is dwindling at some point.  If folks don't want to be posse leaders, how do you fix that? 

 

1. My advice is for SASS to offer online RO courses in a four to six part series for free.  No designation or title for taking it other than learning the basics.  Offer it for educational purposes for those who are interested.  For instance?  I would be interested despite reading the rule book on the SASS website.  I have sought many sources online with pictures and videos to fill in the very large training/instructional gap CAS has. 

 

2.  Instruct the smallest part one can swallow regarding RO items during the morning safety brief.  Don't know how viable this is, but I am sure there are some salient points that need to be reinforced regularly, and this could be a softer way of delivering the message.

 

Anyway my thoughts on having observed the rise and stall of more than one organization some 30-odd-years.  And if anyone higher up in the food chain for SASS is reading this, I hope they have a 5, 10, 20 year plan for keeping the organization vibrant and attractive to new folks w/o disenfranchising current members. 

 

And generally? More rules don't do that (note to me that doesn't mean open the game up to make it more "gamey" I enjoy the confines from the past of the sport).

                        

Just my thoughts being a newb here.  as always, your horses mileage may vary...

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