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The Coconino Pistolero, SASS # 72432

Shooting a clean match means you are shooting slow - a myth?

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32 minutes ago, Noz said:

I started this game approximately 40 years too late to ever have a hope of matching the young eyes and young reflexes of the 10 second shooters. My fastest efforts bring victory in my eyes only if I shoot as clean as possible.

A way to bring accuracy back into the game is to give a 1 second bonus for each clean stage.  Slow down a little and hit each target. 10 seconds at the end of a match is a whole lot.

 

Howdy NOZ.

Basically, we already have that incorporated into our game.......... just don't get a miss on each stage and you'll

have 50 seconds less total time for the match..... ;)

 

We all could sit around the lunch table and discuss the Pros and Cons of target placement, enhanced firearms, etc.....

till the sun goes down and it still wouldn't change the fact that there are those among us who are just

good.....REAL good.   They have abilities perfected thru tedious practice.   There's no secret to some of this.

 

The disparities between all levels of proficiency in our shooters will always exist

regardless of any stage writing changes or 'reasonable' target placements.

 

I ain't a Phycologist or such, but its my belief that If someone wants to accept a Myth

as a reality, they will be hindering theyowndangself within the boundaries of that Myth.

That, of course, is just my .02

 

P.S. - Marlin's are OAL sensitive..... :lol:

 

..........Widder

 

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If I am not competitive in my category (ES), the least I can do is try to shoot clean. My number one goal is always to hit the target and worry about the next one later. My times have been improving, but I got ahead of myself last match and slam fired a couple Lightning rifle rounds and jacked one out for the first time in two years of CAS. I think I got outside of my limitations.

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Shooting a clean match means only one thing...you didn't miss lol

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This is my method I use. A couple months or so before heading to WR and EOT I run wide open usually keeping everything between 11-16 sec. It kinda helps my mind and muscle memory get into that speed rhythm of doing things . Then the week or so before leaving I’ll throttle back and shoot smooth and solid. I’m now considering myself as one of the older guys in the game and probably can’t keep up with the teenage - 25yr olds. But in my mind I’m still 20, so I’m gonna scare the heck out of them as long as I can. I did finish 6th overall winning Wrangler at WR and yes in shot the match “CLEAN”. :)

 

Semi old fat man,

Slick

  

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Slick,

You got 20 yrs and 50 lbs before you get to Semi old fat man.

 

Old fat man

Ringer

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On 2/28/2019 at 12:13 PM, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

I agree.

 

I just wanted to post that info to show examples of some 'Myths' that I had been told early in

my Cowboy shooting days

..........Widder 

 

One myth I was told was you only needed 4 guns and then you were set for life

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2 minutes ago, Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L said:

 

One myth I was told was you only needed 4 guns and then you were set for life

I know, right?

 

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Shooting a clean match does not mean you are shooting too slow but it does mean that during that match at least, you were not building speed. There is a right and a wrong time to work on building speed. 

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53 minutes ago, Smokestack SASS#87384 said:

Shooting a clean match does not mean you are shooting too slow but it does mean that during that match at least, you were not building speed. There is a right and a wrong time to work on building speed. 

Coming from somebody that knows just a little bit about speed  there are some sage words here.

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When I started back to Gunfighter after switching from Duelist I forgot what a "Clean Match" was. I believe it's only a myth now..... Like a Chupacabra..... :lol:

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8 hours ago, Carolina Drifter said:

When I started back to Gunfighter after switching from Duelist I forgot what a "Clean Match" was. I believe it's only a myth now..... Like a Chupacabra..... :lol:

They come into my life with about the same regularity.

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Perseverance and desire will supplement some  innate ability. The words perseverance and desire are spelled p-r-a-c-t-I-c-e. 

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On 2/27/2019 at 4:39 PM, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

If you're shooting clean at monthlies, you're shooting too slow.

 

The concept is that it's easier to notch it down a bit at big matches vs. speeding up.

 

But if your goal is to shoot "Clean"...then go for it!

 

Phantom

hmmm maybe for most of us but I had the pleasure of watching the FCD national champ shoot clean today. btw he also took 1st in his category and 1st over all today. 

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7 hours ago, Turkey Flats Jack said:

hmmm maybe for most of us but I had the pleasure of watching the FCD national champ shoot clean today. btw he also took 1st in his category and 1st over all today. 

I think you’re misunderstanding the point. Nobody is saying that you can’t win if you shoot clean. 

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All good points. I use my local matches to work on speed outside of some practice sessions. One recurring issue I had (all between the ears) was that in State or Regional shoots if I was clean toward the last stages of the match my times increased by quite a bit. I suppose my desire to shoot clean at that point over rode the need to shoot as fast as I could. In fact at Helluva Ruckus, the NY State I was so intent on shooting clean, I missed two pistol shots,on the last stage when I slowed down so far I got way out of any normal rhythm. On the next to last stage I could hear my shooting partner say " Mike must be clean, he's slowing down". 

 

My new mantra is " no more Mr Clean". I just try to shoot as fast as reasonably possible for me. Actually it is a blessing if I miss one early on in a match. 

 

Last year at a state shoot I shot clean and did slow down on the last stage. I came in second in my category but fortunately, the additional ten seconds did not put me out of first as I got whomped by about 30 seconds.  

 

I know now lots of folks who like to shoot clean and take their time and have fun. To each their own. But, it sure is fun watching the guys and gals who shoot fast and clean. 

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Well, yesterday at our local match, our #1 and #2 shooters, both shot clean!!  The difference between #1 and #3 was just over 10 seconds.  I’d say this myth is “BUSTED”!!:D

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Guest Texas jack Black SASS#9362

It is all in what YOU  want to achieve .I enjoy all types of shooting In SASS I collect buckles  some shoot for just  clean matches. Anyone can shoot clean if they shoot slow enough. This GAME is for all of us to enjoy in our own way. FUN,FUN,FUN :FlagAm:

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I don't get to very many monthlies a year so I have to find another way to practice on speed. I use side matches for this. I try to push myself past everything I've done before on the speed side and main matches. Sometimes I connect the dots quite well and realize I can afford to speed up during the main match. This is confidence building. I never expect to win a side match as I shoot double duelist and use a hammered or '87 shotgun so I might as well use the speed side matches to get that extra "practice" while really pushing the edge and show myself what is possible. And who knows, someday I might just do well enough in a side match...;) Just a thought…

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Guest Texas jack Black SASS#9362
1 minute ago, Dantankerous said:

I don't get to very many monthlies a year so I have to find another way to practice on speed. I use side matches for this. I try to push myself past everything I've done before on the speed side maches. Sometimes I connect the dots quite will and realize I can afford to speed up during the main match. This is confidence building. I never expect to win a side match as I shoot double duelist and use a hammered or '87 shotgun so I might as well use the speed side matches to really push the edge and show myself what is possible. Just a thought…

 Speed is just one of the factors into faster times . Many shooters only concentrate on speed and forget the mental part of the equation.  :FlagAm:

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10 hours ago, Turkey Flats Jack said:

hmmm maybe for most of us but I had the pleasure of watching the FCD national champ shoot clean today. btw he also took 1st in his category and 1st over all today. 

I'm sorry, but I'm missing your point?

 

Perhaps you can elaborate for me???

 

Phantom

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On 3/1/2019 at 9:16 PM, Carolina Drifter said:

When I started back to Gunfighter after switching from Duelist I forgot what a "Clean Match" was. I believe it's only a myth now..... Like a Chupacabra..... :lol:

I used to shoot clean matches nearly every match as a duelist but have only done it three times in four years as a gunfighter. The left hand doesn’t like clean.

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57 minutes ago, Texas jack Black SASS#9362 said:

 Speed is just one of the factors into faster times . Many shooters only concentrate on speed and forget the mental part of the equation.  :FlagAm:

 

Yup. 

 

Somewhere between very relaxed and very focused works best for me.

 

 

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I don't believe it's a myth.  Same as you can't miss fast enough to win.  And while there are examples where neither is true, these are the exception, not the rule.  For every penalty a shooter earns during the course of a match, opens a door for the competition to walk in.  Open enough doors and you'll find yourself outside, looking at the winners on the stage... 

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1 hour ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

I'm sorry, but I'm missing your point?

 

Perhaps you can elaborate for me???

 

Phantom

I replied to your comment about if youre shooting clean at a monthly match you're not shooting fast enough. Apparently (maybe just my opinion) that's not always the case. Yesterday's match at Tusco, Stone Creek Drifter shot clean, won his category, and was 1st overall. Seems like he shot fast enough to win and didnt miss. He also shot clean at Winter Range and won his category this year. Now i'm nowhere near that level. Maybe once i've played this game for a decade. 

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1 hour ago, Turkey Flats Jack said:

I replied to your comment about if youre shooting clean at a monthly match you're not shooting fast enough. Apparently (maybe just my opinion) that's not always the case. Yesterday's match at Tusco, Stone Creek Drifter shot clean, won his category, and was 1st overall. Seems like he shot fast enough to win and didnt miss. He also shot clean at Winter Range and won his category this year. Now i'm nowhere near that level. Maybe once i've played this game for a decade. 

I see, you're misinterpreting what I and others are saying.

 

No one says that shooting clean is necessary slow. What they are saying (myself included), is that to develop speed you must push boundaries. Shooting clean at monthlies generally means you're not doing that.

 

Phantom

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57 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

I see, you're misinterpreting what I and others are saying.

 

No one says that shooting clean is necessary slow. What they are saying (myself included), is that to develop speed you must push boundaries. Shooting clean at monthlies generally means you're not doing that.

 

Phantom

 

Agree.    Ya gotta push those boundaries or else you will never realize your potential.

 

..........Widder

 

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I’m going to look at the other side of that coin. Instead of a myth I’ll give you a cliche’ I believe to be the truth. 

 

“If you’re not using the whole target you’re going too slow.” ;)

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At my age, the "Boundaries" are really easy to find.  Sometimes just getting to the range is ........................

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Use monthly matches for practice.    Your sights will never catch up with your speed if your speed is not there for your sights to catch up with.  Track your times over the years to show your progress.  If your time is not getting faster you are not working at it properly.  Get advise from the shooters you are trying to catch up with.  The targets are pretty close to only work at clean match awards unless that is what you enjoy. 

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Personally, I'm slow, but I make up for it with a lack of accuracy.

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If a shooter runs his/her rifle for 10 shots in 2.+ seconds and hits all their targets, have they shot to slow?

 

If a shooter runs their pistols for 10 shots in 3 seconds or less and hit all the targets, did they shoot them to slow?

 

If a shooter picks up their shotgun and hits 4 KD's in a blink of an eye, did they shoot it to slow?

 

These are time factors on some of our more notable fast shooters and champions.   And it seems more often 

than not, the spotters are calling them CLEAN.

 

Sorri, but I can never accept the premise that shooting clean means you are shooting too slow.

 

..........Widder

 

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1 hour ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

If a shooter runs his/her rifle for 10 shots in 2.+ seconds and hits all their targets, have they shot to slow?

 

If a shooter runs their pistols for 10 shots in 3 seconds or less and hit all the targets, did they shoot them to slow?

 

If a shooter picks up their shotgun and hits 4 KD's in a blink of an eye, did they shoot it to slow?

 

These are time factors on some of our more notable fast shooters and champions.   And it seems more often 

than not, the spotters are calling them CLEAN.

 

Sorri, but I can never accept the premise that shooting clean means you are shooting too slow.

 

..........Widder

 

Exactly.  It's all relative.

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2 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

If a shooter runs his/her rifle for 10 shots in 2.+ seconds and hits all their targets, have they shot to slow?

 

If a shooter runs their pistols for 10 shots in 3 seconds or less and hit all the targets, did they shoot them to slow?

 

If a shooter picks up their shotgun and hits 4 KD's in a blink of an eye, did they shoot it to slow?

 

These are time factors on some of our more notable fast shooters and champions.   And it seems more often 

than not, the spotters are calling them CLEAN.

 

Sorri, but I can never accept the premise that shooting clean means you are shooting too slow.

 

..........Widder

 

I think you'll see that most folks advocating this philosophy, reference it applying to monthly matches.

 

Also, the philosophy covers transitions, first shot times, etc.

 

Phantom

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