Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

The Coconino Pistolero, SASS # 72432

Shooting a clean match means you are shooting slow - a myth?

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

If a shooter runs his/her rifle for 10 shots in 2.+ seconds and hits all their targets, have they shot to slow?

 

If a shooter runs their pistols for 10 shots in 3 seconds or less and hit all the targets, did they shoot them to slow?

 

If a shooter picks up their shotgun and hits 4 KD's in a blink of an eye, did they shoot it to slow?

 

These are time factors on some of our more notable fast shooters and champions.   And it seems more often 

than not, the spotters are calling them CLEAN.

 

Sorri, but I can never accept the premise that shooting clean means you are shooting too slow.

 

..........Widder

 

The people who are running those times, didn’t get there without missing.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is so true.

 

But the premise of the topic is that some shooters aren't shooting fast enough if they shoot clean.

When some of our shooters can run 5 stages (10-10-4) in 75 seconds or less and shoot clean, that's a 

pretty hefty pace to most of us Padawans..... ;)

 

..........Widder

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

That is so true.

 

But the premise of the topic is that some shooters aren't shooting fast enough if they shoot clean.

When some of our shooters can run 5 stages (10-10-4) in 75 seconds or less and shoot clean, that's a 

pretty hefty pace to most of us Padawans..... ;)

 

..........Widder

 

 

Okay, if you are shooting those kind of stages, you're past the point of caring about what is said in this thread.

 

If you are still on the upward slope of your learning curve, then I would humbly suggest that if you want to improve your speed, don't worry about misses at monthly matches...so long as your misses don't add up to more than your raw time.

 

Phantom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Okay, if you are shooting those kind of stages, you're past the point of caring about what is said in this thread.

 

If you are still on the upward slope of your learning curve, then I would humbly suggest that if you want to improve your speed, don't worry about misses at monthly matches...so long as your misses don't add up to more than your raw time.

 

Phantom

No way am I shooting those kind of times.

 

The point I'm trying to make is ONLY in reference to the OP and whether its a myth or not in reference to shooting 

clean.

And although I can't speak for most folks, I've seen top shooters run those low teen's ending with a 'Clean' and I've seen it

done for a whole match.   That is fast.   And they were Clean.   So how is it not a myth that if you're shooting

clean, you must not be shooting fast enough?

 

I've never witnessed any of our champions walk off a 13 second stage and say....."Well, if had known I was gonna

shoot it clean, I would have done it in 12 seconds"...... :o

 

If some are saying you can't shoot Clean if you run wild at 110%, then that is another topic..... of which I would agree.

 

But it is possible to run Clean and still run fast enough.    Actually, we could adopt a slogan to say:  "You can shoot Clean if you shoot slow enough"..... :D

But that would also be disproved because even some of the slowest shooters have misses..... probably more misses

than some of the fastest shooters.

 

Good lunch table discussion.   Who's picking up the tab?

 

..........Widder

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

 

But it is possible to run Clean and still run fast enough.    Actually, we could adopt a slogan to say:  "You can shoot Clean if you shoot slow enough"..... :D

But that would also be disproved because even some of the slowest shooters have misses..... probably more misses

than some of the fastest shooter.

 

Even some of us mid pack shooter's have some misses too, it's just to bad sometime's my darn gun's have more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fast enough had nothing do do with the shooter in question and everything to do with their competition. Just food for thought. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

No way am I shooting those kind of times.

 

The point I'm trying to make is ONLY in reference to the OP and whether its a myth or not in reference to shooting 

clean.

And although I can't speak for most folks, I've seen top shooters run those low teen's ending with a 'Clean' and I've seen it

done for a whole match.   That is fast.   And they were Clean.   So how is it not a myth that if you're shooting

clean, you must not be shooting fast enough?

 

I've never witnessed any of our champions walk off a 13 second stage and say....."Well, if had known I was gonna

shoot it clean, I would have done it in 12 seconds"...... :o

 

If some are saying you can't shoot Clean if you run wild at 110%, then that is another topic..... of which I would agree.

 

But it is possible to run Clean and still run fast enough.    Actually, we could adopt a slogan to say:  "You can shoot Clean if you shoot slow enough"..... :D

But that would also be disproved because even some of the slowest shooters have misses..... probably more misses

than some of the fastest shooters.

 

Good lunch table discussion.   Who's picking up the tab?

 

..........Widder

 

It's a myth in the context of training...practice...monthly matches.

 

Again, it's a process of trying to get to the point that you've reached your full potential. Ultimately you'll start slowing down...that's an age thing and little you can do about it.

 

And you're picking up the tab!

 

:lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

 

And you're picking up the tab!

 

:lol:

 

A good ole Colorado steak sounds good..... :o

If I'm buying, lets make it worth the trip..... :D

 

..........Widder

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

So how is it not a myth that if you're shooting

clean, you must not be shooting fast enough?

 

What about just throwing in an 'always'?

 

If you're always shooting clean, you must not be shooting fast enough?

 

Just an insignificant thought of a newbie, Phil

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Texas jack Black SASS#9362
On 2/27/2019 at 8:16 PM, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

The math is simple.

We shoot 60 rounds of pistol, 60 rounds of rifle and 24 rounds of shotgun in an average monthly.

144 rounds.

 

If you were able to shoot every one of those rounds 1 tenth of a second faster than you do currently; your match time would improve 14.4 seconds.

 

If you can up your speed per shot by that tenth of a second with TWO or less misses; you are still better off than shooting clean at your current pace.

 

Three misses or more and you are losing time.

 

Everyone has to find that balance between time gained on each shot and time lost on each miss.

 

 

 A side note if you transition 2 sec faster a stage you shave 20 sec on a ten stage match and you did not need to shoot any faster chancing a miss . Loose a few pounds and do a bit of exercise and times will be faster Practice and being healthy helps ..:FlagAm:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Equanimous Phil said:

 

What about just throwing in an 'always'?

 

If you're always shooting clean, you must not be shooting fast enough?

 

Just an insignificant thought of a newbie, Phil

 

Newbie 'Phil',

Now that is a very good acceptable thought.  

But we could just say that if a person is never getting a Miss,  they must not

be shooting.....period.     Slow, medium or fast wouldn't even have to be part of the equation..... :D

 

WOW, having a pard on the Wire from Switzerland is pretty nice.   WELCOME!

 

..........Widder

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

WOW, having a pard on the Wire from Switzerland is pretty nice.   WELCOME!

Many Thanks!! :D

 

I really enjoy reading the Wire for over a year now.

 

We are quite used to cows and firearms here, so for sure you'll find some swiss cowboys :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/3/2019 at 11:45 PM, Kirk James said:

Use monthly matches for practice.    Your sights will never catch up with your speed if your speed is not there for your sights to catch up with.  Track your times over the years to show your progress.  If your time is not getting faster you are not working at it properly.  Get advise from the shooters you are trying to catch up with.  The targets are pretty close to only work at clean match awards unless that is what you enjoy. 

Practice should be just that... Practice should constitute all parts of shooting a stage.  Movement, shot placement, string times, transitions and combinations thereof.   It should consist of each component individually and in conjunction with other components.  Both under the clock and with no clock to learn or try out new techniques.   This is best done outside the parameters of a match.  But, either a coach or video record for review & critiquing performance is immensely helpful.    A monthly match is a good venue to prove the things learned & perfected during practice improves your overall performance.  

15 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

No way am I shooting those kind of times.

 

The point I'm trying to make is ONLY in reference to the OP and whether its a myth or not in reference to shooting 

clean.

And although I can't speak for most folks, I've seen top shooters run those low teen's ending with a 'Clean' and I've seen it

done for a whole match.   That is fast.   And they were Clean.   So how is it not a myth that if you're shooting

clean, you must not be shooting fast enough?

 

I've never witnessed any of our champions walk off a 13 second stage and say....."Well, if had known I was gonna

shoot it clean, I would have done it in 12 seconds"...... :o

 

If some are saying you can't shoot Clean if you run wild at 110%, then that is another topic..... of which I would agree.

 

But it is possible to run Clean and still run fast enough.    Actually, we could adopt a slogan to say:  "You can shoot Clean if you shoot slow enough"..... :D

But that would also be disproved because even some of the slowest shooters have misses..... probably more misses

than some of the fastest shooters.

 

Good lunch table discussion.   Who's picking up the tab?

 

..........Widder

 

It isn't so much a myth, as it's a truism for those that believe it.  For those that claim to not believe, then, yes, it's a myth.  But, a question for those that routinely shoot low teens, cleanly... if you were to speed up, would you begin missing?   Actually that question could be asked of anyone.  And more importantly, is your closest competition, only still close because they're still missing?  And, are you feeling pressured to speed up, and if so, can you speed up enough to have a miss or two & still win? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Griff said:

Practice should be just that... Practice should constitute all parts of shooting a stage.  Movement, shot placement, string times, transitions and combinations thereof.   It should consist of each component individually and in conjunction with other components.  Both under the clock and with no clock to learn or try out new techniques.   This is best done outside the parameters of a match.  But, either a coach or video record for review & critiquing performance is immensely helpful.    A monthly match is a good venue to prove the things learned & perfected during practice improves your overall performance.  

It isn't so much a myth, as it's a truism for those that believe it.  For those that claim to not believe, then, yes, it's a myth.  But, a question for those that routinely shoot low teens, cleanly... if you were to speed up, would you begin missing?   Actually that question could be asked of anyone.  And more importantly, is your closest competition, only still close because they're still missing?  And, are you feeling pressured to speed up, and if so, can you speed up enough to have a miss or two & still win? 

Yes, if I speed up past my current Match Speed, I'll start missing as a direct result of that increase in shooting speed.

 

I'm just starting FCD so I'm not aware of where my competition is relative to me...we'll see in about 4 months :o

 

Some categories are more sensitive to speed. Age categories for the most part are very sensitive where as others such as FC, Gunfighter, etc are more sensitive to non-speed related screw-ups. Yet with all, you can't know your limits without pushing at monthlies...and when you push, not only do you find your comfort zone, but you also train your subconscious to deal with faster manipulation and sight picture acquisition.

 

Phantom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Yes, if I speed up past my current Match Speed, I'll start missing as a direct result of that increase in shooting speed.

 

I'm just starting FCD so I'm not aware of where my competition is relative to me...we'll see in about 4 months :o

 

Some categories are more sensitive to speed. Age categories for the most part are very sensitive where as others such as FC, Gunfighter, etc are more sensitive to non-speed related screw-ups. Yet with all, you can't know your limits without pushing at monthlies...and when you push, not only do you find your comfort zone, but you also train your subconscious to deal with faster manipulation and sight picture acquisition.

 

Phantom

Those were rhetorical, I didn't expect answers.  And I certainly agree with your observations, even if I don't participate in the sinful indulgence of "Practice"..  or other attempts at improvement!  :ph34r:

 

But, as always, I encourage others to pursue those goals, and wish them luck in achieving them!  ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Griff said:

Those were rhetorical, I didn't expect answers.  And I certainly agree with your observations, even if I don't participate in the sinful indulgence of "Practice"..  or other attempts at improvement!  :ph34r:

 

But, as always, I encourage others to pursue those goals, and wish them luck in achieving them!  ;)

Well dang!!!

 

My response was rhetorical too!!

 

:lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/28/2019 at 12:24 PM, Totes Magoats said:

I think we are on the cusp of seeing sub 10 second 10-10-4 stages.   Not by me, but they are coming.  Or are they already here?  I have not seen one yet.

 

Totes

This is only 10-10-2 but fast.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/28/2019 at 12:24 PM, Totes Magoats said:

I think we are on the cusp of seeing sub 10 second 10-10-4 stages.   Not by me, but they are coming.  Or are they already here?  I have not seen one yet.

 

Totes

This is only 10-10-2 but fast.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/28/2019 at 12:24 PM, Totes Magoats said:

I think we are on the cusp of seeing sub 10 second 10-10-4 stages.   Not by me, but they are coming.  Or are they already here?  I have not seen one yet.

 

Totes

This is only 10-10-2  but it's fast.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think Lefty was shooting fast enough because he was Clean..... ;)

 

..........Widder

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/3/2019 at 10:21 AM, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

Agree.    Ya gotta push those boundaries or else you will never realize your potential.

 

..........Widder

 

Hey Widderborg, shoot me off an email. All I got is your old one

 

Hello@storiedfirearms.com

 

Thanks!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Hey Widderborg, shoot me off an email. All I got is your old one

 

Hello@storiedfirearms.com

 

Thanks!!!!

 

sent... 

 

..........Widder

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Congrats to Missouri Lefty, incredible.  What a treat to watch.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Slick-Thank you for sharing your training technique.  Thanks to everyone else.  I wish we all could age so gracefully.  Your incredible to watch and we can all learn from you.  Appreciate your help.  You are kicking butt. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

.10  (1/10 of a second) away from a sub 8 run.   Not to shabby.

 

..........Widder

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.