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Shadow Shooting .....?


Widder, SASS #59054

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So, here I am standing with the rest of the posse today during the reading of the stage scenerio.

 

As the Posse Leader reads the pistol sequence, I stand there and bend my elbows to a 90 degree angle and point my index fingers at the targets simulating my shooting sequence.

 

A good Pard behind me sez: 'You'de get a stage DQ in a big match for doing that".

I sez: What????? doing What?

 

He sez: 'Shadow Shooting'.

 

He told me he didn't like the rule but he saw an ROII give a stage DQ to a shooter once for doing the very same thing.

 

Will somebody please explain this to me.

 

Thank you kindly

 

 

..........Widder

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Ah the infamous "shadow shooting rule".......

 

I've had the same experience as you.............I've even had people say that it is "dangerous"......

 

Next time I hear someone say that, I'm going to say this........"Make an L with your pointer finger and thumb"......"Now hold it to your head and yell BANG!!!!".........."Your still alive????".........."ok now slap the L against your forehead!" :D:DB)

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I watched a many time world champ do it at bayou blast.

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Junky - can you quote the rule for me, I can't find anything in the manuals about "shadow shooting" or "air gunning" or whatever you want to call it.

 

I could see that an RO might want to encourage someone not to do it at the line when that person is up to shoot as it would slow the posse down, but I sure don't find a rule agin it.

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Had A Yank that came up here to shoot ,,,,,,,,, He walked through the whole stage (on the line of fire) using all the props, and pointing and transisioning the guns through the stage ..... That is what we call Shadow-shooting and it is not allowed ..... What you did ,,,, many others do and is not a problem ...

 

He also needed multipule re-starts to make him happy ...

 

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

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Here is what it states in the 2011 version of the SASS Range Operations Basic Safety Course (ie, ROI Manual), Appendix A -Range Safety Rules

 

30. Dry firing at the loading table is not allowed and will result in a Stage Disqualification. Dry

firing is allowed only at designated safe areas. Dry firing is defined as the act of bringing the

gun into a shooting position, cocking the hammer, and pulling the trigger as if to cause the

gun to fire normally.

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Had A Yank that came up here to shoot ,,,,,,,,, He walked through the whole stage (on the line of fire) using all the props, and pointing and transisioning the guns through the stage ..... That is what we call Shadow-shooting and it is not allowed ..... What you did ,,,, many others do and is not a problem ...

 

He also needed multipule re-starts to make him happy...

 

 

Hmmmm That kind of takes the fun out of it, don't it? Seen some do the same thing...including my own brother :lol: had to give him a hard time about it too!

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Here is what it states in the 2011 version of the SASS Range Operations Basic Safety Course (ie, ROI Manual), Appendix A -Range Safety Rules

 

30. Dry firing at the loading table is not allowed and will result in a Stage Disqualification. Dry

firing is allowed only at designated safe areas. Dry firing is defined as the act of bringing the

gun into a shooting position, cocking the hammer, and pulling the trigger as if to cause the

gun to fire normally.

 

 

Absolutely NOT the same thing...

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So, here I am standing with the rest of the posse today during the reading of the stage scenerio.

 

As the Posse Leader reads the pistol sequence, I stand there and bend my elbows to a 90 degree angle and point my index fingers at the targets simulating my shooting sequence.

 

A good Pard behind me sez: 'You'de get a stage DQ in a big match for doing that".

I sez: What????? doing What?

 

He sez: 'Shadow Shooting'.

 

He told me he didn't like the rule but he saw an ROII give a stage DQ to a shooter once for doing the very same thing.

 

Will somebody please explain this to me.

 

Thank you kindly

 

 

..........Widder

 

While I'm personally against SHADOW shooting - I can see where some just feel the need to do it, my ex for example . . . .

I can't find that rule in the book - can someone cite a page or paragraph, or should we make it a practice to tell

those who say such things "Pound sand!".

 

SHADOW Catcher

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This video is posted on the SASS YouTube channel... I don't think they would put out videos showing off SDQ infractions. And I don't see anyone running around giving these people SDQs.

 

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Some of you are saying shadow shooting on the firing line is illegal. It may not be polite to other shooters, but where is this called out as illigal in the rule book so we can tell folks "no you can not do that under the rules". We have too many folks with a timer in hand making up rules that don't exist so we need to be specific. We all know about dry firing at the loading table, but even the definition of that leaves a bit of confusion.

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on firing line is against the rules......I think but anywhere else is common place 'round here.

 

the idea is that if a shooter goes up to the line and runs the stage by shadow shooting and then runs it live a major match would take 6 days instead of 3 to shoot. doing it off line has never been frowned upon. honestly i cant find it in the rule book anywhere.

CC

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Many shooters, myself included, shoot several different games. It is specifically outlawed in IDPA shooting. It sounds like someone is getting their rules confused. I shoot Gunfighter and I shadow shoot most stages prior to going to the line. Especially if they come up with something different. I think shadow shooting when it's your turn to shoot is holding up the posse but I've never heard it specifically outlawed in SASS.

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Had A Yank that came up here to shoot ,,,,,,,,, He walked through the whole stage (on the line of fire) using all the props, and pointing and transisioning the guns through the stage ..... That is what we call Shadow-shooting and it is not allowed ..... What you did ,,,, many others do and is not a problem ...

 

While not against the rules it is frowned upon once the shooter comes to the line. I have seen it in the shooters package of a large match, but even then there was no penalty. Can't really remember the wording but is was sorta like....."no shadow shooting once the shooter comes to the firing line, if you feel the need to shadow-shoot on the firing line we will assume that you need more time to prepare, and will be instructed to proceed to the unloading table."

 

Jefro :ph34r:

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So, here I am standing with the rest of the posse today during the reading of the stage scenerio.

As the Posse Leader reads the pistol sequence, I stand there and bend my elbows to a 90 degree angle and point my index fingers at the targets simulating my shooting sequence.

A good Pard behind me sez: 'You'de get a stage DQ in a big match for doing that".

I sez: What????? doing What?

He sez: 'Shadow Shooting'.

He told me he didn't like the rule but he saw an ROII give a stage DQ to a shooter once for doing the very same thing.

Will somebody please explain this to me.

Thank you kindly

..........Widder

There's two folks outta three in that little vignette that're wrong. And one of 'em ain't you. I've seen that, and personally, I wouldn't discourage a shooter from rehearsing their moves prior to getting set to fire a stage after they've staged their long guns. Might just save them from a tumble and a fall... Once is ok, twice is pushin' it; more'n that might be delaying the rest of the posse. I don't care for those that want to do that with their firearms in hand... to me, it's a matter of etiquette; or respect for the other competitors at a match. While we each want to do "well" (whatever our definition of "well" is), doing so at the expense of others is selfish. I've watched folks do their little "shadow rehearsal" behind the firing line as another shooter goes thru the stage, and as long as their guns ain't in their hand, are out of sight of the competitor on the line or the TO and don't distract the spotters... some do their shadow rehearsal as the RO reads the stage description... again, as long as you're not disturbing others, so what?

 

Only way to reach a penalty level in my opinion is to become a nuisance as you do it. Warned by the RO that you're distracting the rest of the posse, shame on you, after the second warning, which should include, "... once more, and it'll be a SOG penalty..." you can take it to the MD.

 

Now... when I do that "shadow rehearsal" thing... it gets REAL comical, REAL fast. And if my mimicking others reaches a level that the RO feels I'm impeding the posse or being a nuisance, the same penalty should be imposed. A little comic relief might be fun, but there's a limit. A little "shadow rehearsing" might be good/a little mimicry might be funny, but...

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the idea is that if a shooter goes up to the line and runs the stage by shadow shooting and then runs it live a major match would take 6 days instead of 3 to shoot. doing it off line has never been frowned upon. honestly i cant find it in the rule book anywhere.

 

While not against the rules it is frowned upon once the shooter comes to the line. I have seen it in the shooters package of a large match, but even then there was no penalty. Can't really remember the wording but is was sorta like....."no shadow shooting once the shooter comes to the firing line, if you feel the need to shadow-shoot on the firing line we will assume that you need more time to prepare, and will be instructed to proceed to the unloading table."

 

...

Only way to reach a penalty level in my opinion is to become a nuisance as you do it. Warned by the RO that you're distracting the rest of the posse, shame on you, after the second warning, which should include, "... once more, and it'll be a SOG penalty..." you can take it to the MD.

...

 

Last word I heard about it was a proposed 5 yard penalty for "delay of the game".

Offending shooter must start 15 feet back from where everyone else does (once he's done shadow shooting and arranging his long guns perfectly).

 

:rolleyes:

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I shadow shoot, too, but they know I don't load my finger. :unsure:

 

Aunt Jen

 

So, here I am standing with the rest of the posse today during the reading of the stage scenerio.

 

As the Posse Leader reads the pistol sequence, I stand there and bend my elbows to a 90 degree angle and point my index fingers at the targets simulating my shooting sequence.

 

A good Pard behind me sez: 'You'de get a stage DQ in a big match for doing that".

I sez: What????? doing What?

 

He sez: 'Shadow Shooting'.

 

He told me he didn't like the rule but he saw an ROII give a stage DQ to a shooter once for doing the very same thing.

 

Will somebody please explain this to me.

 

Thank you kindly

 

 

..........Widder

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Hi Widder :wub:

 

I think the "individual" might have confused "shadow shooting" with "dry firing." :unsure:

 

Please tell the "good Pard" that just because someone has a certain pin that doesn't mean they know the rules...

 

Also, will someone please tell me why the misguided souls are always on the side of penalizing someone... :rolleyes::angry:

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

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I see absolutely NO problem with the first or second shooter on a stage shadow shooting the stage... Don't like it? then you go first!

 

or ask me how I actually feel about it!

 

Cheyenne, who will shoot first, at my leisure, Culpepper

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It's not illegal to shadow shoot unless you have belt loops on your britches in which case it's a match DQ forward that stays in effect until you have a birthday that ends in zero...or until it rains while the sun is shining, whichever comes first...I mean last. :ph34r:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't you just love all the non-existant rules that are stated as fact? I can understand how it might become a bit confusing if a person is trying to find the specific rule because it might be hiding in plain sight in one of the three books. But there's an EASY button. If you want to know what the "fine" is for an action, take a look at the cheat-sheet on page 29 of the ROI Course. It's called the "Pocket RO Card." Dang if dry firing at the loading table is not listed!...but what you will not find listed is shadow shooting...because it's not there.

 

Click here to see the RI Course for your own danged self. :D And while we're at it, take a look at the Miss Flow Chart, another EASY button.

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It's not illegal to shadow shoot unless you have belt loops on your britches in which case it's a match DQ forward that stays in effect until you have a birthday that ends in zero...or until it rains while the sun is shining, whichever comes first...I mean last. :ph34r:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't you just love all the non-existant rules that are stated as fact? I can understand how it might become a bit confusing if a person is trying to find the specific rule because it might be hiding in plain sight in one of the three books. But there's an EASY button. If you want to know what the "fine" is for an action, take a look at the cheat-sheet on page 29 of the ROI Course. It's called the "Pocket RO Card." Dang if dry firing at the loading table is not listed!...but what you will not find listed is shadow shooting...because it's not there.

 

Click here to see the RI Course for your own danged self. :D And while we're at it, take a look at the Miss Flow Chart, another EASY button.

A lot of this crap comes up when some issue has been voted on in Vegas that fails or even was discussed at a TG meeting at a Regional or other and someone just thinks it is now a rule without seeing it in writing.

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Hmm, must be one of them "I heard there was a rule" rules. Or maybe there WAS a rule once but there ain't no more! No reference at'all in SHB, ROI or ROII about "Shadow Shooting."

 

Standing around during the readin-of-the-stage, standing at the loading table, around the water bucket or similar place off the firing line and pointin' yer fingers at imaginary targets and going bang-bang-ding-ding or making coolio ke-pow noises with yer mouth AIN'T shadow shooting.

Taking the firing line and going through the stage with your finger guns IS Shadow shooting........................ which is PERFECTLY fine.

 

 

Cuz there ain't no rule ag'in it.

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Who cares what I like...

 

Who cares what you like.

 

It ain't against the rules.

 

Some things that are said just amaze me...

 

Oy!!!!

 

:FlagAm:

 

and that, my friend, is why we have pages and pages of rule books. because just knowing something is inconsiderate and/or undesireable is no longer enough to keep people from doing something.

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and that, my friend, is why we have pages and pages of rule books. because just knowing something is inconsiderate and/or undesireable is no longer enough to keep people from doing something.

 

Better watch it Charlie, you're in violation of the failure to capitalize the beginning of sentences rule.

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Howdy my good Pard Widder,

 

I was told by our good friend Oracle (black pin RO) acting as a spotter one day because I held up a finger on the line to ensure I had the starting target right that I was shadow shooting and that was against the rules. I asked him to show me the rule and he could not. I have only been in CAS for 4 years now so it may have been a rule (either written or unwritten) in the past but it ain't there now. So for my 1 cent...you go right ahead fellow gunfighter and point to your hearts content.

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Whether I point my finger or just move my hands. I too am a gunfighter and if it's a new or diffent kind of sweep I want to figure out my best lead and to figure out transitions. The next time you shadow shoot, do it at full speed and they'll never see your buttefly wing thumbs move....lol.

 

Take care my friend.

 

KK

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Yer ALL wrong. Not only is it against the rules, it's down right illegal. Widder said this happened on April 1st. aka: April Fools Day. Everybody know shadows ain't in season on April Fools Day. Only zombies are in season on that day.

 

Widder, you better not let me catch you shootin' shadows out of season ever again. :angry:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:lol:

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