WTC-Squib or not?

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

Yesterday, we had a fairly new shooter who while shooting pistol had his first round go "pop".  Since it was obvious it was only the primer I yelled, "SQUIB!" and he set his gun done.   Upon further investigation, after he was done with the stage, we found that the round in question had had the primer inserted sideways.  When the firing pin struck it it went BANG, but didn't set off any powder and the bullet didn't move in the case.  So my question is: should the shooter in this case be offered a reshoot as it would have been perfectly safe for him to continue the stage?

 

Possum

[Cassalong Hopidy]

Yes. And you did the right thing since you couldn’t be sure the gun was safe to fire after that point. Not really a squib since no barrel obstruction, so a reshoot is in order.

[High Spade Mikey Wilson]

I find it interesting that first he didn't see the sideways primer when he was loading the pistol, and secondly that the cylinder even rotated with a cartridge primer seated like that. Heck if one of my correctly seated primer is slightly high I'll know about it when rotating the cylinder.

[Cholla]

And some training on inspecting ammo is in order. In my thinking that should have been caught twice, once when putting it in whatever he stores his rounds in and again as he was loading the revolver.

[El diablo gringo]

If the pistol was the very first firearm used on the stage then yes, he deserved a reshoot. If rounds were sent down range with the other pistol or firearm then no reshoot.  Shooter owns the stage.  Better to learn this at a monthly than at a state match. 
 

Gringo

[Old Man Graybeard]

As I understand the rules...He was stopped because it was thought he had a squib. No projectile in barrel...reshoot awarded

[Jackalope]

Shooter "owns the stage" until the TO stopped his progress by hollering "Squib".  Since no bullet was lodged in the barrel, the TO should offer a reshoot due to unnecessary stoppage.  No matter if it happened on the first shot or some time later.

 

 

Tip of the hat to the TO for trying to prevent something that could have been dangerous!  

[Sedalia Dave]

54 minutes ago, El diablo gringo said:

If the pistol was the very first firearm used on the stage then yes, he deserved a reshoot. If rounds were sent down range with the other pistol or firearm then no reshoot.  Shooter owns the stage.  Better to learn this at a monthly than at a state match. 
 

Gringo

 

SHB Pg 13

 

- In the case of a suspected squib, the TO will instruct the shooter to make the firearm safe and continue with the next firearm. If the barrel is later determined to be clear, the shooter will receive a reshoot.

[Texas Jack Black]

2 hours ago, Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 said:

Yesterday, we had a fairly new shooter who while shooting pistol had his first round go "pop".  Since it was obvious it was only the primer I yelled, "SQUIB!" and he set his gun done.   Upon further investigation, after he was done with the stage, we found that the round in question had had the primer inserted sideways.  When the firing pin struck it it went BANG, but didn't set off any powder and the bullet didn't move in the case.  So my question is: should the shooter in this case be offered a reshoot as it would have been perfectly safe for him to continue the stage?

 

Possum

 I would also offer him a reloading book to read.

[Marauder SASS #13056]

Also, make certain the shooter was watching his loading and NOT distracted by others at the loading table.  We often forget and get to talking, etc.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Reshoot, always error on the side of safety. 

 

[Deadwood Miner, SASS # 45575]

+1000

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

I would rather yell "STOP" than SQUIB.  Brand new shooter might not know what squib means. 

 

Really interesting that a sideways primer went off!  First I've heard of that.

[Tell Sackett SASS 18436]

41 minutes ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

I would rather yell "STOP" than SQUIB.  Brand new shooter might not know what squib means. 

 

Really interesting that a sideways primer went off!  First I've heard of that.

Might have thought he hollered SQUID!!

Wouldn’t YOU stop if there was a squid on you??

[Cypress Sun]

6 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

I would rather yell "STOP" than SQUIB.  Brand new shooter might not know what squib means. 

 

Really interesting that a sideways primer went off!  First I've heard of that.

 

Heck, he can probably use CCI primers with a hammer strike like that.

[Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L]

in addition to above suggestion I would quietly ask another shooter to watch him load for the next few (all) stages.  

 

 

[El diablo gringo]

Lol, next time I’ll pay attention to the op.  Definitely a reshoot.  That’s what I get for multitasking too early in the morning 

 

Gringo 

[I. M. Crossdraw, SASS# 8321]

8 hours ago, Tell Sackett SASS 18436 said:

Might have thought he hollered SQUID!!

Wouldn’t YOU stop if there was a squid on you??

Nope, unless that's what we're having for dinner.

[Equanimous Phil]

15 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

I would rather yell "STOP" than SQUIB.  Brand new shooter might not know what squib means.

While I get your thinking, I would rather stay with SQUIB.

I highly doubt that a new shooter will continue firing if the TO yells something at him he doesn't understand. Wouldn't he rather look at the TO expecting instructions? So, I'd suggest to yell SQUIB immediately followed by further instructions how to proceed with the pistol.

When TO says STOP the stage is finished and shooter must not continue with next guns (or else he gets a MDQ). A reshoot would be indicated regardless if there's in fact a squib or not. At least, that's how I read the SHB.

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

Thank you all.  That was also my interpretation.

[Texas Maverick]

On 1/8/2023 at 10:38 AM, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

I would rather yell "STOP" than SQUIB.  Brand new shooter might not know what squib means. 

 

Really interesting that a sideways primer went off!  First I've heard of that.

Or even allowed the cylinder to rotate. Would love to have seen how that worked.

 

TM

[Scarlett]

On 1/8/2023 at 9:21 AM, Jackalope said:

Tip of the hat to the TO for trying to prevent something that could have been dangerous!  

Amen, Jackalope!

 

Hugs!

Scarlett

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

I wasn't the TO, but after I yelled SQUIB and the TO said whatever he said, the shooter did stop and lay the gun down.

[Tex Wilson]

WTC: Reshoot.

[Charlie T Waite]

TO stopped shooter for a perceived squib - no squib found (TO interference) Even though shooter was stopped for all the right reasons.

 

SHB pp 20:

 

No Alibi/Reshoots/Restarts

 

SASS matches above the club level are “no alibi” matches. Once the first round goes down range, the competitor is committed to the stage and must finish the stage to the best of his or her ability. - Reshoots are not awarded for ammunition or firearm malfunctions. However, if there is a range failure (failure of props, timer failure/unrecorded time, or Range Officer interference) beyond the competitor’s control, a reshoot may be granted. - On a reshoot, the competitor starts over clean, carrying only accrued safety penalties forward.

[watab kid]

it seems to me that with the serious potential consequences of a squib if someone thinks they hear one they should call it out , its been that way at most events ive been to , no-one needs a damaged gun and NO-ONE wants to hurt themselves or a bystander , it would take the fun out of our game , kinda like spotting , if you know its a hit - its a hit but if you think its a squib its a squib , why risk anyone ever , 

 

that said ill leave the reshoots to the RSOs , 

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

REF also:

Quote

If a safety command is given by the TO, that is later determined to be errant, (e.g., if a squib call is determined to actually be clear), the shooter will automatically receive a reshoot.

RO2 p.8

[Blackwater 53393]

The above says it all!!  No need to pursue this further!!

 

THANKS PWB!!