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These folks are NOT using semi auto pistols and 10/22 rifles.   How EXACTLY is someone using a 22 caliber firearm that, for all intents and purposes, looks the same as the guns you're using

Like what?  Exactly?   I do so tire of "this will cause the sky to fall" doom and gloom anytime a change is proposed.   Especially when there is no reason expressed of "WHY" a chan

FYI: WR 2017 TG Meeting minutes

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1 hour ago, Three Foot Johnson said:

I can see people getting into this game with .22's, then, IF things return to some semblance of normalcy 2-4 years down the road, being told they can't use them anymore and getting bent out of shape because they suddenly need to spend $2000 for two centerfire sixguns and a rifle to keep going when "Everybody's been fine with us using these for the past 4 years". Unavoidable. Oh well.

Well.........Bye!:P

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2 hours ago, Marshall Dillon said:

What is the actual objection to 22 rimfire? Why don’t YOU like it?

I like it just fine, and normally shoot .22's during the off-season "shoot what you brung" matches, but there will undoubtedly be people 4 years from not who still don't have centerfire guns, and even some that do, who will argue, "It's been OK for the past four years, why not now?"

1 hour ago, July Smith said:

Has a single new shooter been drawn to SASS now that adults can use 22s?  The only people I know who are going to use 22s were already SASS shooters and most have thousands of dollars in tuned center fire guns.  I'd expect most shooters will gladly switch back to center fire when able.  I personally will continue to shoot center fire black powder until no longer able.

Well, it's a bit early to tell. Like a lot of folks, due to the snow & cold, I've only been to one match this year, so...

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19 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

22's can be a real problem to score. 

Plan on painting the targets more often.

OLG 

We have a monthly Rimfire match that uses a speed steel format at the range. No real problems with timer picking up shots, not much moving. Folks are using revolvers and semi autos in this match. 

We also have a PCC match with a Rimfire division. The only time the timer doesn't pick up a shot is if the shooter out runs the TO to the next shooting position, which happens. Our TO's make sure the first shot and the last is picked up. 

5 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

How in the world would the clubs know when this shortage will last?

True, here is North Alabama we could get ammo when a lot of places could not. Even before the shortage some of the more out of the places where having problems with the supply. 

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Why in the world does anybody here give a flyin' rat's patoot what someone else is shooting?  Get over yourself for goodness' sake.  Your purity is not diminished by someone else's ammunition choice.  Sheeeese!

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15 minutes ago, Joke 'um said:

Why in the world does anybody here give a flyin' rat's patoot what someone else is shooting?  Get over yourself for goodness' sake.  Your purity is not diminished by someone else's ammunition choice.  Sheeeese!

We care because there are rules to this game. When we go to SASS clubs we expect the rules to be followed. This is the reason you can travel all over the US and even other countries and be able to shoot the match.

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Our club will add a Men's .22 and a Ladies' .22 class for our monthly matches this year, but NOT for our three-day match.  And it's only for this year.  We will revisit this topic next year and see if we need to extend it.

 

Honestly, I don't see many people shooting this class.  I don't know if there are that many people out there that are out of primers, but have a stash of .22LR's ammo (which is as unavailable as primers in this neck of the woods), AND have a pair of .22 single-action revolvers and a .22 lever action rifle.  But, at any rate, we are following suit with other local clubs and offering it. 

 

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19 minutes ago, Joke 'um said:

Why in the world does anybody here give a flyin' rat's patoot what someone else is shooting?  Get over yourself for goodness' sake.  Your purity is not diminished by someone else's ammunition choice.  Sheeeese!

Same reason you can't use a 10" bowling ball, or a football with less than 12.5 psi. Standardized rules.

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17 minutes ago, Joke 'um said:

Why in the world does anybody here give a flyin' rat's patoot what someone else is shooting?  Get over yourself for goodness' sake.  Your purity is not diminished by someone else's ammunition choice.  Sheeeese!

 

With all due respect, if this shortage lasts long enough that people start slicking up and short-stroking .22's to the point where they can be competitive with .38's, and you start seeing .22 shooters in the winner's circle, I imagine we will start to hear complaints.

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26 minutes ago, Woody Shootem, SASS # 24816 said:

 

With all due respect, if this shortage lasts long enough that people start slicking up and short-stroking .22's to the point where they can be competitive with .38's, and you start seeing .22 shooters in the winner's circle, I imagine we will start to hear complaints.

Is it purely a recoil complaint then?

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You guys are worrying about nothing. SASS would have to approve new categories.   I'd call that non chance.

We're shooting monthlies not state, national, or international matches.  Again, SASS would have to sanction.

Does anyone think there will ever be an adult 22 shooter as an overall winner at a major match?

Let monthlies do what they want.

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FYI:

Quote

5) It was suggested that local clubs encourage new membership as much as possible. One way could be for local clubs to allow .22 cal. firearms for shooters who are thinking about shooting CAS who just want to try it out until they can commit to purchase legal SASS firearms. This is not for State and above matches or annual SASS sanctioned matches. SASS is perfectly OK with this, as a way to encourage new shooters who want to “put their toes in the water” and see if CAS is for them. This is NOT another official or sanctioned category.

WR 2017 TG Meeting minutes

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25 minutes ago, Marshall Dillon said:

Is it purely a recoil complaint then?

It’s pure speculation for me to guess what people might complain about.  We haven’t had any matches with a .22 class yet.  I would say folks could either complain about the lack of recoil, or about people winning with guns that are clearly not allowed in SASS sanctioned events.   Our club decided we will allow .22’s for 2021 monthly matches only.  If it becomes a problem, we will deal with it at that time.  

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My home club. Texas Riviera Pistoleros  is allowing  22s this year. Nobody has used them yet. 
 

I did, last fall at a 5th Saturday match, shoot Buckaroo just for the fun of it!  22s are fun to shoot every once in a while! I may do it again this summer. Even drag out the 410 double.  
 

I see no huge harm in allowing 22s, as long as it’s just at club level. 

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7 hours ago, Three Foot Johnson said:

Sure, if they stick with it and don't go back to playing Bingo at the Legion Hall on Saturdays because they can't use their .22's anymore.

So let them!  
About 15 years ago, my son wanted to shoot with me. I belonged to the Goldcoast Gunslingers out of Ft Lauderdale at the time. He already had 2 Colt Nebraska Commemoratives I had bought for $200 a piece and I went over to Bass in Dania Beach and got a 9422 XTR, for $299 on sale. Then I got single shot 12ga & 20ga shotguns for $75 apiece. Thought I was all set for the Buckeroo category until part of the club decided that .22’s were too dangerous to shoot, to big a chance of the bullets ricochet back at the shooter because the targets were to close and too high velocity. Long story short I was able to convince them that a certain CCI  bullet would shoot within the 600-800 Fps required and now my son could shoot. 2 matches later one of the club members let him shoot a .357 Vaquero loaded with .38 special, he loved and he started shooting my .44 special handguns and rifle. Point of this long story is to always work around the rules to get people to shoot. It always amazes me that the game we play is considered so competitive that we can’t have fun like the people who first started it. We can modify the hell out of a weapon with short stroke kits and lighter springs and reloading bullets till there is hardly any powder to push the bullet out of the barrel!  And yet when some suggests shooting .22s which I do believe was a cartridge that was very popular during the Wild West, I have read all the complaints and wonder what is wrong with this picture?  Who cares!  I stand by the fact that most of the shooters that participate don’t give a Tinker’s damn where they end up in the standings at the monthly shoots, they short for fun and be able to dress up!  And the ones who do shoot competitively will figure out a way to use .22s 

Let people shoot .22s now and for the future!  Keep working on people to join this game anyway you can, as entry level. Every single gun I bought to shoot back when I started is easily 300-600 more than what I paid for them and they aren’t decreasing anytime soon. And ammo, I remember.44 special 50 round boxes were going for $16-18 a box.  Now at a buck around, shooting 150 rounds a match, well you all do the math!  Reload!  Ok I bought a used Square Deal B for $125, anyone price one of those recently?  And getting all the components, how much more? And then let’s think about being scared to load your own bullets, even after numerous UTube videos if they are still there. And after all that you naysayers begrudge people interested in starting using .22 caliber Ammo and guns?  You all will be shooting by yourselves pretty soon, with only 1 or 2 posses and then you can really get crazy competitive because you have prohibited all the “fun” out of the game!

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I think a full-time rim fire "clause" would be great.   I'd pay TWO match fees so I could shoot my regular match guns AND a set of 22's

...if I had a set of 22's

 

 

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At our range .22s for adult shooters have always been allowed. We even have a category for young shooters under 10 called “Tadpole” where they shoot cap guns.  There is one tadpole shooter that is  a little more mature who, under supervision is allowed to shoot .22 pistols. The adult .22 shooters are in their own category with the stipulation that an adult .22 shooter can’t be the overall match winner. 

The current club discussion about the adult .22 category is should they be required to shoot shotgun. With the club split about 50/50. So it looks like this year we will have two adult .22 categories, one with shotgun and one without, easy peasy. Everybody shoots !

I think SASS needs a permanent .22 adult category. It’s just more icing for the cake.


EJ

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Our club has agreed to allow the use of .22 caliber firearms during the current ammo shortage.  We had also allowed it, along with a few other things, on our 5th Sunday matches, which we called bonus matches - bonus categories for bonus matches.  However, we did not see anyone using .22 in the last 2 years that we offered it on those occasions.  However, there seems to be a demand for it now and we opened those doors to include all monthly matches during the season.  Now we wait until the snow melts and the 2021 season gets underway to see how things go.  Like most others, we wanted to do all we could to encourage new shooters and not lose our current ones.   

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I think the problem with the 22 matches will be getting the word out to draw new members, or to see if it will.  The club members knowing they can shoot 22’s will add no new people.

 

same old grow the sport problem.

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1 hour ago, Marshall Matt Dillon said:

I think the problem with the 22 matches will be getting the word out to draw new members, or to see if it will.  The club members knowing they can shoot 22’s will add no new people.

 

same old grow the sport problem.

We had great success when Bass would do their August Hunting Classic, having a table showing the various guns and walking around , heeled but of course not loaded. Obviously August is far away, if they are even doing it this month, but you also might want to think about sponsoring a table at the local gunshows and direct the people that come see your table to the vendors who have Wranglers and Henry .22 rifles for sale. There are always a few at our shows down here in So FL. 

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23 hours ago, Three Foot Johnson said:

Sure, if they stick with it and don't go back to playing Bingo at the Legion Hall on Saturdays because they can't use their .22's anymore.

Even if they do - so what?  What others shoot does nothing to affect me and how I play, but if new shooters show up and we can become friends over playing this game, then I've made new friends, and they may just come back for more.  At least we will have tried and maybe made a few new friends out of the effort.

 

The apparent alternative is to stop trying, sort of a self fulfilling prophecy there.

 

SC

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2 hours ago, Marshall Matt Dillon said:

I think the problem with the 22 matches will be getting the word out to draw new members, or to see if it will.  The club members knowing they can shoot 22’s will add no new people.

It may not add new people, but it sure will get existing shooters out who can't shoot because of ammo issues.

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45 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

It may not add new people, but it sure will get existing shooters out who can't shoot because of ammo issues.

+1

The first thing to do is stop the bleeding.

After that - we can work on getting better.

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2 hours ago, Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 said:

How are ya'll handling knockdowns in .22 category at your matches?

This is the main reason (in my estimation) that 22 would need to be scored separately.

Buckaroo scoring - Hits count but targets don't need to fall - 22 category does not change the shotgun requirements; so the KD's for shotgun would be unaffected.

 

There will have to be a little adaption and problem solving to bring the 22 category into being and make it "fit" with the match as written - and I don't think the game should have to change to do so - just some "reasonable accommodation"; the same as we would if a Buckaroo was shooting or a person with health issues.

 

But clubs manage to figure out differing (non standard) categories that do not always match up with existing norms - Josey Wales, Cody_Dixon, etc.

I don't see Plinker, Deuces Wild, Rimfire (or whatever moniker we hang on the 22 category {If anyone cares, I'm really fond of Deuces Wild}) as any more challenging to oversee and officiate.

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I don't know whether a .22 rifle can be slicked up to perform at the level of a centerfire rifle, but I'm looking at this Ruger Wrangler I bought for my youngest (yes only one, FedEx is still looking for the other) and this is a nice gun.  The grip feels almost identical to my NMVs.  Obviously it's a lighter gun, but it has a solid feel to it. The action feels very comparable to an untouched NMV.  I could see a Cowboy really running these fast with lighter springs and some light action work.  I'm looking forward to getting the other one and the spring kits I ordered.

561C0B31-6264-4AB4-8058-C66DCBAD9818.jpeg

34585CD9-E84B-4B46-890E-C3183EC42D2D.jpeg

Edited by Captain Bill Burt
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2 hours ago, Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 said:

How are ya'll handling knockdowns in .22 category at your matches?

Honestly, over the years we've had buckaroos that knocked them down with their .22s when adults shooting .32s and even .38s couldn't.   

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image.png.ca001ec59db59e10773c61e26c73adf0.png

 

This is one of my wife's Ruger Single Six .22s she uses for practice and side matches - action job by Longhunters.  Her main match revolvers are .32 H&R mag Single Sixes so these feel about the same.  Should we run out of small pistol primers these revolvers will be used for local, main matches if allowed.  I will switch to firearms using large pistol primers and cap and ball revolvers if needed.

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I went and picked up a Heritage 22 today. Nice little gun, who knows, it may see some duty around here alongside my Henry 22

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Like the idea of a 22 class,  Should be scored separately.  Just has to hit the knockdowns.  Just no wrangler plinkers, 49r plinkers, senior plinkers, double duelist plinkers, etc..... Just let them shoot and have a blast!!!!  And no Rattlesnake Wrangler rule!!!!  Love the idea SASS already has covered the topic.  We will see what happens 5 years from now and discuss it again.   

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Kirk James,

So if a .22 shooter doesn't have to knockdown knockdown targets, you are ok with them still winning overall?

 

For the record, I'm not for letting adults shoot 22's without the RW rule for annuals.  Otherwise, I'm fine with it, especially until the reloading component shortage is past.

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No, I think it should be a separate competition.  That is what I meant by scored separately.   The Rattlesnake Wrangler rule was a joke, maybe not that funny, but still a joke. The Rattlesnake Wrangler rule was never enforced in any big competition my kids competed in.  In all the World and National Competitions my kids competed in they were never asked to declare it.  A big deal was made on the wire, but never came out in too many matches. None that I know off.   What I was trying to get at was that we should be doing everything to recruit for CAS.  If it means allowing a shooter to shoot in a separate competition, who is it hurting.  No different than allowing a shooter to use one revolver for 5 rounds, 5 for the rifle and 4 shotgun.  No different than allowing the top shooters in the top 16 to advertise their sponsors and dress differently.  It is a separate competition and maybe will keep more in the game or recruit others.    

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