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LawMan Mark, SASS #57095L

Low ball offers will be refused...

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I was shocked when I was in the LGS a couple of weeks ago and they sold a guy a 50 rnd box of 9mm ball ammo for $50 + tax. 

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Go to Sportsman's or Cabelas and the ammo shelves are empty.  Check out Gunbroker.  One pound cans of Retumbo powder are going for $120.00 and up.  Locally there are no primers.  If Biden gets in things will get even worse.

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Makes me wonder if the military installations are starting to get worried about soldiers trying to sneak cases of 9mm and 5.56 off-base.

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BTW I've heard from shooters in Europe and they say there's no ammo shortage or price increases over there. This whole mess is of our own doing right here in the US of A.

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27 minutes ago, Sixgun Sheridan said:

BTW I've heard from shooters in Europe and they say there's no ammo shortage or price increases over there. This whole mess is of our own doing right here in the US of A.

Interesting considering that I just read that the US is the only country in the world right now manufacturing primers. I also heard that from the guy that owns a reloading store near me.

 

Now I just have to figure out here I read that so I can post it.

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2 hours ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

Go to Sportsman's or Cabelas and the ammo shelves are empty.  Check out Gunbroker.  One pound cans of Retumbo powder are going for $120.00 and up.  Locally there are no primers.  If Biden gets in things will get even worse.

Reloading by amatures should be interesting....

 

Texas Lizard

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44 minutes ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Interesting considering that I just read that the US is the only country in the world right now manufacturing primers. I also heard that from the guy that owns a reloading store near me.

 

Now I just have to figure out here I read that so I can post it.

 

Not doubting that you read it somewhere, but I have a hard time believing that. If it's true then we can completely shut down China's and Russia's armed forces just by making sure we don't export any.

 

It's probably more likely that the only primers we can get HERE are US-made ones.

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36 minutes ago, Sixgun Sheridan said:

 

Not doubting that you read it somewhere, but I have a hard time believing that. If it's true then we can completely shut down China's and Russia's armed forces just by making sure we don't export any.

 

It's probably more likely that the only primers we can get HERE are US-made ones.

Well, I can’t find the article I was reading about overseas primer manufacturers so perhaps it was misinformation that was pulled or I misread the article. 

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I just read an article today that foreign primers are coming in soon. First the ships need to get here, then they have to clear customs, then get to distribution.

 

My guess is we will not see any in stores, they are going to go to ammo re-manufacturers first.

 

Federal primers are US made. Federal is using all primer production in-house to make ammo; Military contracts first, LE second, and the consumer market to the extent the other contracts are on-target for fulfillment. Only after all of the ammo demand is caught up will Federal start shipping primers. First to re-manufacturers, then the consumer market.

Edited by John Kloehr
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S&B, Fiocchi, Noble and lots of other Europeans make primers.  Euro rifle and pistol primers are Berdan.  U.S. primers are Boxer.  That would mean European primers would be marked Made in USA.  They are not.

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3 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Interesting considering that I just read that the US is the only country in the world right now manufacturing primers. I also heard that from the guy that owns a reloading store near me.

 

Now I just have to figure out here I read that so I can post it.

 

Lots of misinformation about.   One gunshop owner told me that all the primers were made in China and they are not shipping any.

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I just picked up 2 boxes of Federal 9mm FMJ for 22 a box!

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25 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

S&B, Fiocchi, Noble and lots of other Europeans make primers.  Euro rifle and pistol primers are Berdan.  U.S. primers are Boxer.  That would mean European primers would be marked Made in USA.  They are not.

S&B and Fiocchi have switched to using Boxer primers in their imported ammo. 

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If all this ammo shortage is a result of the primary customer (military) buying in huge volume....
Why are they suddenly buying in huge volume?

Edited by bgavin

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46 minutes ago, bgavin said:

If all this ammo shortage is a result of the primary customer (military) buying in huge volume....
Why are they suddenly buying in huge volume?

Good question

 

Regards

 

:FlagAm: :FlagAm: :FlagAm:

 

Gateway Kid

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52 minutes ago, bgavin said:

If all this ammo shortage is a result of the primary customer (military) buying in huge volume....
Why are they suddenly buying in huge volume?

End of the fiscal year, spending what money is left in the budget.  If you don’t use up the allocated money, your budget can be cut next year.

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I'm familiar with the "use it or lose it" budget mentality.

However... if that was the case for the military... we should have had a huge shortage ever year.
We did not.

I'm curious what is afoot that would cause the military to suck up all ammo production.
Or... is the public literally sucking up everything?
Shelves are bare.

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4 hours ago, John Kloehr said:

I just read an article today that foreign primers are coming in soon. First the ships need to get here, then they have to clear customs, then get to distribution.

 

My guess is we will not see any in stores, they are going to go to ammo re-manufacturers first.

 

Federal primers are US made. Federal is using all primer production in-house to make ammo; Military contracts first, LE second, and the consumer market to the extent the other contracts are on-target for fulfillment. Only after all of the ammo demand is caught up will Federal start shipping primers. First to re-manufacturers, then the consumer market.

I bought 4000 Federal large pistol primers today at Cabelas. 

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6 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Interesting considering that I just read that the US is the only country in the world right now manufacturing primers. I also heard that from the guy that owns a reloading store near me.

 

Now I just have to figure out here I read that so I can post it.

This is from Guns and ammo

 

Internationally, primers are manufactured by several firms in different parts of the world. Armscor in the Philippines, for example, Sellier & Bellot in the Czech Republic, Fiocchi in Italy and JSC in Russia are some of the more prominent companies. An industry insider told G&A that several million primers are currently en route from Europe to the U.S. by way of ship, which may help meet at least some of the demand for loaded ammunition. Still, those primers need to arrive, be offloaded, clear customs and then be distributed to the various manufacturers who can use them to produce ammunition. This will take time. 

 

https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/great-primer-shortage-2020/383204

 

Edited by Major Crimes
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i could use a few new things ...boat , motor home , truck , ive got a couple of those available to trade , 

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2 hours ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

S&B, Fiocchi, Noble and lots of other Europeans make primers.  Euro rifle and pistol primers are Berdan.  U.S. primers are Boxer.  That would mean European primers would be marked Made in USA.  They are not.

Not saying that these aren't all foreign owned or whatever but Fiocchi's  main office is in Ozark, MO, USA

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Was in Big R today.They had a few 50 rd boxes of 10mm for 24.95.:)

                                                                                                                                    Largo

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18 hours ago, LawMan Mark, SASS #57095L said:

1 round.jpg

 

12 pack of double ply toilet paper?

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16 hours ago, Sixgun Sheridan said:

BTW I've heard from shooters in Europe and they say there's no ammo shortage or price increases over there. This whole mess is of our own doing right here in the US of A.

I can confirm that. Could buy (almost) as much 9mm as I want for 13$ a box of 50 rounds (124gr FMJ). Also no shortage of primers or powder (yet...)

 

9 hours ago, bgavin said:

Or... is the public literally sucking up everything?

In normal times, the supply of every product is quite equal to the consumption, but that balance is fragile, as you see with toilet paper: "Hmmm, there might be a shortage of it and I definitely don't want to run out, better buy a couple packs to store at home!" Some people start and instantly THERE IS a shortage, ergo everyone buys more than needed if finding some, and on and on it goes....  Regarding ammo, there are suddenly a lot of new additional customers making it worse.

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10 hours ago, bgavin said:

If all this ammo shortage is a result of the primary customer (military) buying in huge volume....
Why are they suddenly buying in huge volume?

No increase in military volume I am aware of. Possible increase in LE orders, but that is still small quantities compared to military or pure civilian consumption.

 

Election year, CoViD, "largely peaceful" protests, 5 million new gun owners, plant shutdowns, the pipeline got sucked dry, the last dribs of old stock occasionally show up, some new stock is showing up (Thunderbolt .22lr at $79.99/500).

 

But military and LE get production "off the top" before other orders.

 

I do not know what percentage that is, but it is some percentage of monthly production. So the capacity available to us is not the total production capacity.

 

I do not know how much production was shut down due to CoViD, but is is some percentage of annual production. Some of what would be capacity for us this month is going to existing contracts to make up for some previous month.

 

And since there are now at least 5,000,000 more of "us" than last year, anything that does go into the pipeline in our direction does not stay in the pipeline very long.

 

And if someone wants to trade me a box of Blazer Brass 9mm, I do offer up a single roll of Charmin in trade. No lowball offers accepted, I know what I've got. :lol:

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If a 9mm is worth a boat, is a 50bmg worth a house?

 

New shooters are adding some demand.  How do they  balance the old shooters stopping?  I think panic buying due to Covid and politics are the issue.  To a lesser extent, there are a lot of enthusiasts who have time and desire to social distance right now.  These existing shooters have greatly increased their consumption.  The same with reloading, people have the time.

Edited by sassnetguy50

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11 hours ago, Major Crimes said:

This is from Guns and ammo

 

Internationally, primers are manufactured by several firms in different parts of the world. Armscor in the Philippines, for example, Sellier & Bellot in the Czech Republic, Fiocchi in Italy and JSC in Russia are some of the more prominent companies. An industry insider told G&A that several million primers are currently en route from Europe to the U.S. by way of ship, which may help meet at least some of the demand for loaded ammunition. Still, those primers need to arrive, be offloaded, clear customs and then be distributed to the various manufacturers who can use them to produce ammunition. This will take time. 

 

https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/great-primer-shortage-2020/383204

 

“Several million” won’t make a dent.  Need at least a Sagan.

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4 hours ago, John Kloehr said:

And since there are now at least 5,000,000 more of "us" than last year, anything that does go into the pipeline in our direction does not stay in the pipeline very long.

 

If those 5 million new owners were pro-2A I wouldn't mind them being partially responsible for the shortage. Unfortunately I think the majority of them are of the "I already got mine, go ahead and ban 'em" mentality.

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6 hours ago, Sixgun Sheridan said:

 

If those 5 million new owners were pro-2A I wouldn't mind them being partially responsible for the shortage. Unfortunately I think the majority of them are of the "I already got mine, go ahead and ban 'em" mentality.

I disagree.

 

Reports form California and the few other "expected" states is that the new buyers were shocked the restrictions applied to them. They were just supposed to apply to criminals and, well, not them.

 

And they believed buying a gun was easier than getting a driver's license; the media told them this was so. Well, that is until they realized the first document they needed was a driver's license so getting a firearm -- whatever that entails -- is on top of getting a driver's license.

 

And this is for in-stock firearms. Wait until they get a second gun, and have to wait ten days again. Or they order a second gun exactly like they want, and find out the ten day timer does not start until the 4473 is approved, having already waited longer than ten days sonic the order was placed; and this is the second gun, damn it! What purpose does waiting now serve?

 

And another background check for each ammo purchase? They already got approval for the gun!

 

Let's help them see the light that these "common sense" controls serve no purpose but to harass them; even though they used to think it was just the bad guys (which may have included us), but now 5,000,000 more citizens know what they voted for and supported and they are finding out they don't like it. Because they are now us.

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On 9/29/2020 at 2:00 PM, LawMan Mark, SASS #57095L said:

1 round.jpg

 

 

That ain't the one that you carry in your shirt pocket, is it, Mark?:P

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