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Misty Moonshine

SASS Scoring - Important Notice!

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1 hour ago, Ozark Shark said:

All for it.  Thanks!

 

 

You state "Cowboy Action Shooting."  Any impact on "Wild Bunch" matches?

I wish it were so!

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Awesome!!  A long overdue improvement!!

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12 minutes ago, Badlands Bud #15821 said:

How?

Well a talented shooter, such as yourself, can make up 5 seconds in a TT match.

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1 minute ago, Whiskey_Kid said:

Well a talented shooter, such as yourself, can make up 5 seconds in a TT match.

How would I "make up 5 seconds"? Pushing harder invites more mistakes.

 

I've outrun misses in RP matches. The fun part is that in RP, if you're 5 seconds ahead of the next shooter, the penalty doesn't even appear in your score! TT ensures that all penalties are not only equal, but that they always appear in your score.

 

Still not sure how "the way you play the game" is supposed to change.

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Everyone:

 

To be clear, up to this change, the matches that were Forced to use Rank Point scoring instead of TT were:

Regionals

Divisionals

Winter Range, the National Championship

END of TRAIL, the World Championship

 

State matches & below were all already using TT.

 

Misty

 

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8 minutes ago, Badlands Bud #15821 said:

How would I "make up 5 seconds"? Pushing harder invites more mistakes.

 

I've outrun misses in RP matches. The fun part is that in RP, if you're 5 seconds ahead of the next shooter, the penalty doesn't even appear in your score! TT ensures that all penalties are not only equal, but that they always appear in your score.

 

Still not sure how "the way you play the game" is supposed to change.

Hey Bud, I can speak to the way you play the game, but I know I approach TT vs RP matches differently and I know some other that do as well.  For instance, on a fast stage, "I" have no room for error at a RP match because a miss can be so costly so I dial it back a little, on a slow stage I will likely push it closer to the limit as there is more room for error.  On a TT match a miss is the same on any stage, so the level I am able to push on any stage would likely be different. 

 

Hope you are still shooting some, I haven't run into you since Bar 3 several years ago with Phantom and Joe Darter, still hope to get to shoot with you some day.

 

WK

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2 hours ago, Goody, SASS #26190 said:

Really? If that don't beat all. Now what the he** are we going to argue about?

 

2 hours ago, Stump Water said:

 

Colt/Ruger

Ginger/Mary Ann

Real BP/Sub

Bisley Joe

 

Velcro :ph34r:

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Well , I see already that "you can't please everybody" , but 90-95% is a livable number. :lol:

Rex , who has always been too slow to care. :D

(still prefer TT anyway , simpler):P

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18 minutes ago, Whiskey_Kid said:

Hey Bud, I can speak to the way you play the game, but I know I approach TT vs RP matches differently and I know some other that do as well.  For instance, on a fast stage, "I" have no room for error at a RP match because a miss can be so costly so I dial it back a little, on a slow stage I will likely push it closer to the limit as there is more room for error.  On a TT match a miss is the same on any stage, so the level I am able to push on any stage would likely be different. 

 

Hope you are still shooting some, I haven't run into you since Bar 3 several years ago with Phantom and Joe Darter, still hope to get to shoot with you some day.

 

WK

Well heck, take a look at the bottom of the pack. In a RP match, a shooter who would otherwise have come in last on a stage gets a SDQ...and no penalty. Do you really want a scoring system which allows the second most serious safety penalty in the game to have a possible value of zero (or any kind of variable value for that matter)? I don't think a miss being the same penalty on every stage (and for every shooter) is a drawback so much as intuitively correct.

 

I haven't been shooting as much as I'd like, but I try to keep my hand in. Hopefully we'll posse up the next time I make it to a match you're at!

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Good News

Will make a lot of folks happy!

 

Thanks to everyone involved in making the change -

Especially Misty and the Wild Bunch!

 

AD

 

 

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This is tremendous news!

 

The "Dead Horse Herd" has been thinned, hasn't it?

 

So now what will be the argument/discussion of choice?

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45 minutes ago, Whiskey_Kid said:

Hey Bud, I can speak to the way you play the game, but I know I approach TT vs RP matches differently and I know some other that do as well.  For instance, on a fast stage, "I" have no room for error at a RP match because a miss can be so costly so I dial it back a little, on a slow stage I will likely push it closer to the limit as there is more room for error.  On a TT match a miss is the same on any stage, so the level I am able to push on any stage would likely be different. 

 

Hope you are still shooting some, I haven't run into you since Bar 3 several years ago with Phantom and Joe Darter, still hope to get to shoot with you some day.

 

WK

Wow, I never realized some folks put so much effort into shooting a match!  Now that total time is mandated, perhaps you can toss all the strategies aside and just enjoy the matches!

 

As far as the fastest shooters winning, isn't THAT what this GAME is all about?  I have the pleasure of regularly shooting with two of the fastest shooters in Arizona and when they show up, there is usually no doubt who will post the fastest scores of the day but oddly enough no one packs up and leaves because these folks show up, we just enjoy having these kids around and I never tire of watching them shoot!

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11 minutes ago, Don Jorge said:

This is tremendous news!

 

The "Dead Horse Herd" has been thinned, hasn't it?

 

So now what will be the argument/discussion of choice?

We'll always have categories & awards .........

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Can someone, like Misty, please define a SASS sanctioned match?

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26 minutes ago, Goody, SASS #26190 said:

Can someone, like Misty, please define a SASS sanctioned match?

State Match and above would be my bet.....since there are contracts between SASS and the Club organizing the match.

 

By contract the Regionals and above were required to use Rank Points.

 

Anything below the state level is just run under "SASS rules apply".....

 

Quote

SASS Sanctioned matches will no longer be allowed to use any other scoring method. Updated contracts will be issued to all SASS Sanctioned matches in the coming weeks to reflect the change.

 

Stan

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Yep... this is a good thing.

 

I expect down the road,

we will be talking about rank

scoring like we talk about shooting

out of a bath tub or throwing a horseshoe

up into a tree to see if it will stay for a ten second bonus.

 

Thank you Wild Bunch for listening and

making this change.

 

Best regards 

RB

 

 

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But what the heck am I gonna do with all my Points?   I've been collecting them for 15 years and now they're worthless?  Major Bummer Dude!  :rolleyes:

 

In reality, as most of us realize, while it will have an effect on the game, the top shooters will still be the top shooters, and I will still be where I belong, firmly established in the Top of the Bottom Third.  Will it change how the game is played?  Probably a little.  In my humble opinion, Rank Points tended to keep people from pushing the speed envelope as misses could have drastic consequences on their overall placement.  Total Time, I think, will encourage folks to run right at the limits of their control, and possibly beyond, as they try to make up for that one miss.  Either way, it's still Cowboy Action Shooting, and if this is what is needed to kick up the participation level, then so be it.

 

I must admit that I have spent almost my entire Cowboy Career in the Rank Point world and was shocked to find that some folks (My Florida Pards in particular) didn't use them.  Total Time didn't help my placement any, but in the end, it just didn't matter to me one way or the other.  I have had a great time, under both scoring systems, no matter how I did personally did in the match and, I suspect, for the vast majority in SASS, it won't matter to them either.  The matches will still be fun, the people will still great, and I will continue to play the game to the best of my limited abilities.  Who knows, maybe under Total Time, I can finally make it into the Bottom of the Middle Third!  :P

 

Now, let me pull out the software manual and see if I can get this all sorted out before the Mason Dixon Stampede!  :wacko:

 

 

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Just now, J. Mark Flint #31954 LIFE said:

What is the penalty for velcroing Bisley Joe to your nearest competition?

 

Shooting out of Category??

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5 hours ago, Goody, SASS #26190 said:

And all of the local matches have been allowed to use TT for ever, just State and above SASS Sanctioned matches REQUIRED RP's. I can't speak for others but I know that the Texas State WB match has used the official scoring method since it's inception. But this is all beside the point. I was just pointing out to Ozark Shark that this ruling would have no effect on WB because RP were never the mandated scoring system for SASS sanctioned matches.

State matches were not required to use rank points.

Your statement would have been correct if you had said Regionals and above SASS Sanctioned matches REQUIRED RP's.

 

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Grrrrreat and Fantastic news thanks to all who listened, Misty, Wild Bunch and all the guy's & Gal's who spoke up with all their thoughts.

Special thanks to our TG's getting involved and heard voices about Total Time being wanted.

 

 

Yeeeeeh, Haaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

 

Hopefully no more 999 just a 150.

 

Jackrabbit Joe #414

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Who woulda thunk it!!

 

Now the scoring makes sense.

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4 hours ago, Whiskey_Kid said:

But did they?  or did they just listen to those that yelled the loudest?

I like how it always goes to, "Never knock the fast shooters."  This hurts me way less than others!  And there are plenty it hurts way less than me!  But its easier to figure out that the total number of shooters capable of winning a big match was at least cut in half! 

 

Also you can't just look at scores from a RP match, change it to total time and say, "See it didn't change much!"  The way you play the game changes at a TT match is different than RP. 

 

WK

We play an individual game. 

We should be scored as individuals.

Our results and our placements should be solely based on OUR performances.

 

If you have a scoring method that scores and ranks people solely by their personal performance against a consistent and trusted benchmark (the timer), and if that scoring method eliminates HALF the shooters from contention...

 

Perhaps the other scoring method may have been elevating a number of shooters into a position (contention) that their actual shooting performance did not reflect?

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2 hours ago, Goody, SASS #26190 said:

Can someone, like Misty, please define a SASS sanctioned match?

A "SASS Sanctioned Match" is any championship match sanctioned by SASS. This includes the following:

State Championships

Regional Championships

Divisional Championships

The National Championship

The World Championship

 

All state championships were already using TT. The only matches that are affected by this change are the Regionals and above.

What is NOT a SASS "Sanctioned" match, even though as a SASS affiliated club you agree to host all matches according to SASS Rules (that doesn't change!)- include: local club monthly matches and club annual matches.

 

When you think sanctioned, think championships. That might help.

 

Misty

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That was my thinking, but I had been told that the new rule would make all matches TT. May I ask when the State level matches went to TT?

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5 minutes ago, Misty Moonshine said:

A "SASS Sanctioned Match" is any championship match sanctioned by SASS. This includes the following:

State Championships

Regional Championships

Divisional Championships

The National Championship

The World Championship

 

All state championships were already using TT. The only matches that are affected by this change are the Regionals and above.

What is NOT a SASS "Sanctioned" match, even though as a SASS affiliated club you agree to host all matches according to SASS Rules (that doesn't change!)- include: local club monthly matches and club annual matches.

 

When you think sanctioned, think championships. That might help.

 

Misty

 

Misty,

 

While that may be true for the majority, it is not true for the entirety.  The recently held Maryland State Championship was run with Rank Points.  Of course, next year it will be Total Time!

 

OK, back to the regularly scheduled "discussion".  :rolleyes:

 

Dogmeat Dad

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Thanks again Misty.

 

Jackrabbit & Sly Puppy

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Arkansas State Championship has been RP as well. I think Mississippi and Tennessee are as well because I've shot those in the past.

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5 hours ago, Whiskey_Kid said:

 

Also you can't just look at scores from a RP match, change it to total time and say, "See it didn't change much!"  The way you play the game changes at a TT match is different than RP. 

 

WK

I concur wholeheartedly with this statement.  In an RP match it pays to be consistent and miss free.  In a TT match it pays to push harder and accept the occasional miss if you can run a little faster every stage.  Problem is, I'm one of those shooters that plays a really good game of consistent and miss free.  Now I've got to alter my game plan.

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This, for me, ranks right up there with the decision to recognize Gunfighter as a category and approving the Montado/Bisley hammer.  Glad to hear it!

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