Badlands Bud #15821

I believe that was done a couple of times. The issues of variable resolution are magnified by small numbers. You get fair-decent resolution with rank points if you have a couple hundred or more shooters. If you only have a handful of people in a category, it gets wonky PDQ.

Good times!

Hey there, Widder! Of all the days for me to get a wild hair and decide to check out the Wire... There's basically one thing that really bugs me about total time [edit] Rank Points, but there are two direct consequences of the first thing that are also worth thinking about. 1. Variable Resolution- The value of 1 rank point is not consistent. The difference between 1 and 2 could be fractions of a second, the difference between 51 and 52 could be 10s of seconds. When compared with total time, the resolution is consistent with each 1/100th of a second being measured and counted for score. 2. Due to the variable resolution, penalties are no longer fixed. A miss could cost anywhere from no rank points to however many shooters there were at the match. Penalties aren't just a different value on different stages due to stage design, two different shooters could have a miss on the same stage and the penalty measured in rank points could be different for each shooter. Oddly, this may have a larger impact on shooters at the middle of the bell curve, rather than the tails as wherever there are scores "clustered", a penalty issued in seconds will tend to translate to more rank points. With total time, the penalties are assessed in the same unit as the score, resulting in uniform penalty for the same error/infraction. 3. It is possible for penalties to have no impact on score, even safety infractions. If you have a MSV, but the next closest score is 10.01s behind your time (or you were going to be last even without the penalty), your penalty in rank points is 0. Someone who would have been last on the stage just based on their time could even receive no penalty for a SDQ. This, I think, is the strongest argument against RP as a scoring system. In a shooting game, if you have the potential to violate a safety rule and receive no penalty for doing so, it's time to sit down and think about your scoring system. With total time, penalties are always going to add to your score. Rank points never kept me from shooting a match, but the above is my reasoning for preferring total time.

Jasper Agate! It has been a long time. Things are going well as I hope they are for you. -Bud

Same to you and Anita. Congrats on escaping CA!

Same to you, Widder!

The argument goes both ways. I'd agree that for internal consistency, you might have your match-design guidelines indicate that KD targets should fall with the prescribed minimum power factor. The question would then become, do you bump the minimum power factor up to factory .38 or do you change the KD recommendation down to the current power factor? However, the two rules were made for different reasons. The minimum power factor was an attempt to address "mouse-fart" loads and the KD recommendation was (ironically considering the start of this thread) simply an attempt to create some kind of standard for KD targets so people would have some idea what to expect as they traveled around the country shooting SASS matches. KD targets set light enough will be knocked down by the wind or fall out of calibration to the point that they won't stand at all fairly quickly. I suspect that the KD calibration recommendation of ".38 factory load" was more a practical matter than an attempt at a regulation on ammunition power and I'm almost certain it pre-dates the power factor. From a purely practical standpoint, come match day, it's best to have in your cart whatever it takes to put any targets down.

I used to run around with 180gr bullets over the same powder load as my 125-130s. I looked up the actual load data and I was really pushing the upper end of .38 Special, getting into low .357 Magnum. I think I still have that box somewhere. Smokin Gator!

I'd also think $800 is pretty close, but I don't think you need a box to get that amount. Condition is everything.

That should be feasible. I don't know if anyone makes a .38 Special Henry, but you should be able to block up the lifter and replace the barrel. I don't think the rim is involved in controlling feeding? 1851s would just need proper Kirst cylinders. I don't know about the cost, but this fine gentleman was able to craft .44-40 cylinders for Ruger Vaqueros so I could use .429 instead of .427 bullets and quit sizing every darned one of them. I bet he could cut 9mm Kirst cylinders for 1851s.

I hope life it treating you easy, too! I can't complain, I've found a nice little niche and play with guns all day, every day. Roop and OWSS (Chabot) were very much on my mind when I was approached by a couple of SASS shooters who were also re-enactors. They wanted to shoot their Civil War guns with live ammo and we worked out proper stage modifications (and proper, target-friendly loads!) to make it happen. I even shot a couple of matches in that category. It was a ton of fun. Regarding the rule irregularities being related to safety, and hopefully without going too far out of bounds, there are SASS safety rules which should always be followed. Rules related to muzzle direction, loading procedures, guns leaving control of the shooter, etc., which are most necessary and should be followed absolutely. There are SASS safety rules which a half dozen or so shooting disciplines make a compelling argument are unnecessary. Now, I understand the raised hackles and the discomfort. Going to a trap or skeet range scares me silly with guns slung over shoulders and muzzles resting on feet. There are some games which have safety rules which are simply anathema to the SASS shooter. That said, it sounds to me like everyone was able to shoot the stages safely. Those who felt they could not safely shoot while moving wisely chose not to shoot while moving. I would think that disagreement with the structure of the match would be more constructively discussed with the match director than with the SASS Wire. Maybe the Wire has mellowed since I was last passing through, but I seem to recall the Wire could take a week to come to no conclusion about an issue that the SI MD could address in maybe three emails, tops.

I just want a single action, swing-out cylinder, 8-shot, .38 revolver. The double action was a terrible step backward in revolver design

Technically, yes. I do still live in California

Emphasis mine. Regarding the first bold portion, that's a Sloughhouse Irregulars tradition. Irregulars was a play on the irregularity of the schedule (5th weekend days), but there was more to it. I remember coming up with rules to allow muzzle-loading rifles and shotguns to allow people to participate with rifles and shotguns more suited to a cap and ball revolver than a '94 and a Rossi Overland. We also had a strong contingent that shot in overalls (barely within the 1800s guidelines and according to Tex it is not acceptable to repair them with duct tape). Sure, we mostly played by SASS rules, but I've been to several clubs that had local, regional, special, or just wacky one-off rules. If everyone has fun safely, I don't know what there is to make a stink about. Sloughhouse Irregulars doesn't have an annual match, and I doubt they're in danger of having a State, Regional, or higher level match bestowed upon them. Regarding the second, I'd certainly hope that people can do so, but I'm sad to hear that you're going to walk. I don't know that SI ever had a speedo competition, but it wouldn't be the same without you

Well heck, take a look at the bottom of the pack. In a RP match, a shooter who would otherwise have come in last on a stage gets a SDQ...and no penalty. Do you really want a scoring system which allows the second most serious safety penalty in the game to have a possible value of zero (or any kind of variable value for that matter)? I don't think a miss being the same penalty on every stage (and for every shooter) is a drawback so much as intuitively correct. I haven't been shooting as much as I'd like, but I try to keep my hand in. Hopefully we'll posse up the next time I make it to a match you're at!