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Waimea

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Yeah shotguns that is.

 

After 6 years of shooting 97's I'm thinking about a change.

 

So I've been looking at SxS doubles.

 

There's Stoeger's and Baikal's and SKB's and Browning's.

 

Help edu-macate me on the pluses and minuses of each and if there are others feel free to chime in about them too.

 

I purposely left out the hammered doubles (sorry Dutch).

 

Thanks in advance for your kind responses. :)

 

 

Waimea

 

:FlagAm:

 

 

 

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Get a Johnny Meadows SKB and never look back!

--Dawg

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Same advise as the first shoot.

Go to your local match.....

Try them all.....

Get what feels good to you......

Edited by Ace_of_Hearts

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Same advise as the first shoot.

Go to your local match.....

Try them all.....

Get what feels good to you......

Absolutely right. The good shotguns are all GOOD! Get the one that "speaks" to you.

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Pretty much what Dawg said. Or one from Dirt.

 

If you are REALLY on the fence, start with a Stoeger that has been tuned up nicely.

Stoeger12005.jpg

The camera was on a tripod and I was using a time delay. No one was threatened taking this picture

 

I ran one of them for years before I upgraded to a SKB with a Mechanical trigger. I truly love that shotgun. SKB 200 with 26" barrels. I can't bear to cut them because they are choked "Skeet and Skeet" and I've been told that is rare.

 

ithaca3.jpg

 

ithaca4JPG.jpg

 

ithaca1.jpg

 

 

Of course, you could just go "Full Crazy" and get yourself an 1887...

DSCN4435.jpg

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you're rich,,, get an SKB or a Browning,,, oh heck,,,, with your money a Winny mdl 21!!

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OK, so let's be a little bit more specific.

 

Stoegers and Biakals will need action work out of the box or you'll have to beat them against a tree to get them open, especially if you shoot Black powder.

 

Stoegers come in both 1 and 2 trigger versions. Confederate Colt shoots a single trigger faster that I've seen most people run SKB's. I have HEARD (meaning no first hand experience) that the Stoeger single trigger models can be finicky. Stoegers can be had in 20", 26" and 28" lengths, with the 20" being called "Coach guns" and the 26" and 28" being the "Uplanders". IIRC, the "Supreme" are the models with single triggers. Some Coach guns have been offered in a nickle finish over the years. One model with dark (almost black furniture and shiny chrome" and two versions with matt chrome (one with a pistol grip stock and one with an English stock). My wife, Bea Itchin' has actually worn out a Stoeger. When Joe West said it couldn't be tightened up any more, I offered to get her an SKB; however, she said that she'd just take another Stoeger Uplander. Go Figure.

 

I don't know that much about Biakals other than after you get an action job they run fine and are on par or even a little better than Stoegers.

 

SKBs. Most folks using SKBs are using either the model 100 or model 200. SKB also made guns for Ithica so you'll see them as well. 99.999% are single trigger. I have heard rumors of ithica SKBs with two triggers but have never seen one.

 

I'm NOT sure what (if any) differences are between the two other than the 100 has a splinter forearm and the 200 has a fat beavertail. I have the 200 with nickle (coin finish) and engraving. Now one thing I am certain of is that the SKBs have an inertial trigger system. This means that the recoil from firing the first round, resets the trigger so you can fire the second barrel. Very light rounds may not reset the trigger. That is what Dirt Merchant and others can fix for you. Many people do what is called a "Mechanical trigger" modification that will reset the trigger without any shock impulse. I believe that this is what Johnny Meadows does but don't know for sure.

 

The Browning is on par with the SKB. I've never held or shot one, so I can't say much about them. What I have HEARD from others is that they don't open as far as an SKB; however, that may be hearsay.

 

Stevens 311 - Back when I started Cowboy Shooting, a lot of folks used Steven's 311 SxS. At the time you could pick up good, field grade guns for about $200. The biggest draw back to them was that they had this HUGE, SHARP locking lug right between the barrels. If you slammed shells in, you could easily cut your hand (I know Bea Itchin' did a few times before she went to a Stoeger).

 

Spanish Doubles - Over the years thousands of Spanish SxS were imported to the US. Many of these are fine field guns, but use the Greener Cross Bolt lockup. This is very strong, but can't really be made to open fast enough or far enough to suit most people who play our game. Best to avoid them.

 

OK, that is about all I know or think I know.

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I think you should contact Johnny Meadows personally..

Ask him questions and let him ask you questions..

 

If I was in your position...

I'd probably go with SKB200.. If my memory serves me it has a beaver tail forearm..

I think the SKB100 has the thin (splinter??) forearm..

Ain't real sure..

Me.. I'd have him set it up with double mechanical triggers ..

I started with and I'm still shooting A (meaning 1) Stoeger SxS double trigger.. Maybe 13-14 years...

But I'm still told they're junk.. Who knew..

 

Rance ;)

Thinkin he won't steer ya wrong..

Edited by Rance - SASS # 54090

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I bought a Stoeger new in the box back in about 1995-1996 (double trigger). Still using it, and I did some minor work on it. Polished the chambers and disconnected the safety. Had to tight the plates that hold the firing pins every now and then but have not had any problems with it. I have had several more Stoegers since then for backups but have never really ever needed them. I have one extra right now that I might part with.

 

If you have lots to spend, get a Browning or SKB. If you just want to try one, get a Stoeger and save the cash. I have not had any luck with any of the Chinese or Russian doubles, and the old Stevens may cost as much as a new or used Stoeger. Usually, you can get 90% of your cash back on a Stoeger if you upgrade or keep it for a backup. Also, use shells with the smooth sides, Winchester AA's or Remington STS's, as these work best in double barrel shotguns.

Edited by Maddog McCoy SASS #5672
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Looking at your signature block it looks like your shooting pretty well with your 97s why change now?

 

FWIW i got my SKB from JM too

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SKB is King!

 

I had heard good things about the Cimarron 1889 in the beginning,

but now that they have been out for awhile.... I'm hearing from "reliable sources" that although it's a good design,

there are "problems" in the execution.....

 

Like I said before..... SKB is King !!

Edited by Silver Sam, SASS #34718L

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Baikal can be frustrating out of the box. After you open the action all the way it will have a tendency to close enough that the shells don't want to come out. If one pushes the barrel release lever back fully to the left with your thumb when the barrels are fully open they will stay open as long as you hold the lever to the left. This has something to do with the shape of the cams and a good shot gun guy can fix it. I am too cheap to pay for that so I push the barrel release to the left with my thumb (when I remember to, other times I cuss). Using a scotch brite pad and my drill press I was able to polish the chambers enough the shells will fly out. During the final polishing I added some plastic head light polishing liquid on the scotch brite pads.

 

Like most russian stuff they are a bit crude and rough but being built like a tank are very reliable

 

Being a total idiot I bought a $300 CIA 87 lever gun. Folks say they totally suck. In this case I spent the money and had Lassiter work his magic. Magic it was, it is slick and sweet. I suck at loading it but the gun works fine. I was able to hit the flyer with it at winter range.

Edited by Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655

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Waimea

 

I owned 3 of the 4 and shot all of them. Bottom line-I greatly prefer the SKB. Well made, reliable, easy to handle. See if you can get Fast Eddie to fix one up for you.

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This is good stuff, Pards.

I appreciate the advice.

Rolan, special thanks for spelling them all out. Sounds like you've tried them all.

 

3 votes for contacting Johnny Meadows.

 

2 votes for try before-you-buy.

Always good advice that I give out freely myself.

 

2 votes for FULL CRAZY 1887 lever gun. :o

This was actually the direction I was thinking of taking. Just not sure but it's still on the table. ;)

 

1 vote for Winchester Model 21.

Culpepper, you been hearing and believing terrible rumors.

$35000 on gunbroker for a .410. Then I'd hafta shoot Buckeroo category. :wacko:

 

1 vote for "why change".

So much winning and no challenges gets boring. HAHA (that's sarcasm, son)

 

1 vote for Cimarron 89.

Guess I'd kinda want to go on a date with it first.

 

 

Feel free to keep the advice coming. :)

 

 

 

Waimea

 

:FlagAm:

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Waimea

 

I owned 3 of the 4 and shot all of them. Bottom line-I greatly prefer the SKB. Well made, reliable, easy to handle. See if you can get Fast Eddie to fix one up for you.

 

Thanks for your input. I believe our messages crossed in cyber space.

 

W

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So Waimea, the true outlaw in you is finally showing up and you wanna be able to shoot your shotgun like Judgem All Duncan's wife Yazzo City Gal. She can sure burn the targets down with her double shooting it Outlaw style.

 

I've started out with a Stoeger and still have one in my safe. I now shoot an SKB 100 with mechanical triggers all set up by Fast Eddie and I like it, a lot....so much so that I bought another one for a backup. One thing about the 100 is that it is normally supplied with a splinter forearm and if you are gonna shoot a lot of black powder that barrel will get hot....for BP SKB shooters the beavertail forearm is preferred since it is a bit bigger, more to hold on to and not burn your hands. Dirt Merchant can also put a beavertail forearm on a 100 if that is your preference.

 

There are several good gunsmiths that can fix you up with a nice SKB, in our area... Fast Eddie, Dirt Merchant and Roughneck Rod come to mind. I bought a 97 from Johnny Meadows and his work on it was top notch and there are several shooters that have mentioned his name on this thread as a good supplier for SKBs too.

 

You have choices mes ami....just ask some of your pards where you shoot the monthly matches if you could run a few rounds through their double and see how it feels.....try before you buy if you can.

 

I'll see you at the Ponderosa Pines and will be interested in what you choose.

 

Kajun

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OK, so let's be a little bit more specific.

 

Stoegers and Biakals will need action work out of the box or you'll have to beat them against a tree to get them open, especially if you shoot Black powder.

 

Stoegers come in both 1 and 2 trigger versions. Confederate Colt shoots a single trigger faster that I've seen most people run SKB's. I have HEARD (meaning no first hand experience) that the Stoeger single trigger models can be finicky. Stoegers can be had in 20", 26" and 28" lengths, with the 20" being called "Coach guns" and the 26" and 28" being the "Uplanders". IIRC, the "Supreme" are the models with single triggers. Some Coach guns have been offered in a nickle finish over the years. One model with dark (almost black furniture and shiny chrome" and two versions with matt chrome (one with a pistol grip stock and one with an English stock). My wife, Bea Itchin' has actually worn out a Stoeger. When Joe West said it couldn't be tightened up any more, I offered to get her an SKB; however, she said that she'd just take another Stoeger Uplander. Go Figure.

 

I don't know that much about Biakals other than after you get an action job they run fine and are on par or even a little better than Stoegers.

 

SKBs. Most folks using SKBs are using either the model 100 or model 200. SKB also made guns for Ithica so you'll see them as well. 99.999% are single trigger. I have heard rumors of ithica SKBs with two triggers but have never seen one.

 

I'm NOT sure what (if any) differences are between the two other than the 100 has a splinter forearm and the 200 has a fat beavertail. I have the 200 with nickle (coin finish) and engraving. Now one thing I am certain of is that the SKBs have an inertial trigger system. This means that the recoil from firing the first round, resets the trigger so you can fire the second barrel. Very light rounds may not reset the trigger. That is what Dirt Merchant and others can fix for you. Many people do what is called a "Mechanical trigger" modification that will reset the trigger without any shock impulse. I believe that this is what Johnny Meadows does but don't know for sure.

 

The Browning is on par with the SKB. I've never held or shot one, so I can't say much about them. What I have HEARD from others is that they don't open as far as an SKB; however, that may be hearsay.

 

Stevens 311 - Back when I started Cowboy Shooting, a lot of folks used Steven's 311 SxS. At the time you could pick up good, field grade guns for about $200. The biggest draw back to them was that they had this HUGE, SHARP locking lug right between the barrels. If you slammed shells in, you could easily cut your hand (I know Bea Itchin' did a few times before she went to a Stoeger).

 

Spanish Doubles - Over the years thousands of Spanish SxS were imported to the US. Many of these are fine field guns, but use the Greener Cross Bolt lockup. This is very strong, but can't really be made to open fast enough or far enough to suit most people who play our game. Best to avoid them.

 

OK, that is about all I know or think I know.

Lot of good information theee. Just wanted to clear up one minor mistake you made regarding the Stoegers. The Stoeger "Supreme" has nothing to do with number of triggers. The "Supreme" Model means it has a higher grade wood stock (actually quite a bit nicer than non supreme but still nowhere near the quality of say an SKB) and better finish options such as the nickel finish you mentioned above. You can get a "Supreme" in all blue, all "nickel" (actually stainless steel), or nickel receiver/blue barrels.

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"One thing about the 100 is that it is normally supplied with a splinter forearm and if you are gonna shoot a lot of black powder that barrel will get hot....for BP SKB shooters the beavertail forearm is preferred since it is a bit bigger, more to hold on to and not burn your hands."

 

Krazy

It's just like you are some Kajun psychic or something.

 

Waimea

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I love my Pedersoli Wyatt Earp. :) very smooth.

 

IMG_0079_zps0d157a35.jpg

 

IMG_0080_zps8ca03a9c.jpg

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Rolan

You mentioned in your first post about your SKB 200 and being able/willing to cut the barrels.

I've been running the 97 that was nicknamed Goosey by the Pards. It's got a 30" barrel with a full choke and the knock downs really feel it when Goosey is around.

I thought about trimming her down but it just don't seem right.

 

Waimea

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Been shooting BSS since 72. Started CAS 11 yrs ago with Rossi. Went through two Stoegers. Went to a BSS and will probably never change

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Rolan

You mentioned in your first post about your SKB 200 and being able/willing to cut the barrels.

I've been running the 97 that was nicknamed Goosey by the Pards. It's got a 30" barrel with a full choke and the knock downs really feel it when Goosey is around.

I thought about trimming her down but it just don't seem right.

 

Waimea

 

I hear you. If you are coming to the GA State match in a couple of weeks, I'll let you try it out.

 

But I thought you shot outlaw? What could be more "Outlaw" than a "Terminator" cut-down 1887?

672d0137255645a4a9c42e1ed37d4831.jpg

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I'll add another vote for the Cimarron 89. Johnny Meadows slicked it up and cut the barrels to 20". Points and shoots great. Cheaper than an SKB.

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Waimea,

 

PM sent.

 

Amarillo Rattler

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Be careful of the newer Stoegers. I understand that the metal is somewhat softer than the older ones.

We have Bakails and TTNs. Heard lots of good about SKBs, just haven't spent the money.

 

BS

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I hear you. If you are coming to the GA State match in a couple of weeks, I'll let you try it out.

 

But I thought you shot outlaw? What could be more "Outlaw" than a "Terminator" cut-down 1887?

672d0137255645a4a9c42e1ed37d4831.jpg

 

I'm sure there are Outlaws that would be brave enough to try this but I USE the stock to control the muzzle.

You might as well just give me an MDQ when I sign up.

Something bad would happen with me and this gun. :(

 

"A man's got to know his limitations" Dirty Harry

 

 

Waimea

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Maruko 500 Best Damn Double ever Built!!!

 

I got two

Scratch

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Waimea, I'm hurt that you purposefully left out the hammered doubles. ;)

 

Dutch

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Get a Johnny Meadows SKB and never look back!

--Dawg

+ whatever is above plus one love my scatter guns from Johnny.

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Waimea, I'm hurt that you purposefully left out the hammered doubles. ;)

 

Dutch

 

Dutch

 

You would think that being all thumbs would work in my favor for a hammered double but alas it REALLY does not.

I gotta keep it simple.

 

You may recall I had a stock TTN double.

I shouda spent some money and had it worked on but I'm stubborn and cheap.

 

Still thinking hard about the bandoleer thing though. :)

 

 

Waimea

 

:FlagAm:

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Maruko 500 Best Damn Double ever Built!!!

 

I got two

Scratch

 

Did you have them slicked?

We need to talk SOON.

 

 

W

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Dutch

 

You would think that being all thumbs would work in my favor for a hammered double but alas it REALLY does not.

I gotta keep it simple.

 

You may recall I had a stock TTN double.

I shouda spent some money and had it worked on but I'm stubborn and cheap.

 

Still thinking hard about the bandoleer thing though. :)

 

 

Waimea

 

:FlagAm:

 

I admit I'm biased. :P A bandoleer is the only way to go with a double. :wub:

 

Dutch

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Winchester M-24, Stevens 311 made in the USA ...

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

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