Dead Eye, a new cowboy action sport?

[Dirty Dan Dawkins]

10 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Yeah...women rolling around on the ground...

 

Just introduce a Pentecostal category. The Baptist category has been proposed for years, but this would be more entertaining.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

21 minutes ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said:

Still have mine 

[Lone Spur Jake SASS #7728]

Hmmmm......Phantom, you have a problem with good looking women rolling around on the ground?

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

22 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Your videos and explanation of SASS/CAS shoots were not accurate...certainly didn't show what the game of Cowboy Action Shooting is.

 

I don't care what you do on your own time...what "game" you play. You exposed people that may never have heard about SASS/CAS to a false representation of the game.

 

Phantom

Told you it was a cool logo 

I want one!! Now if I could just find my Delorian I could make it back to the future. I sure do miss carry that wet dummy around, had to throw him up over a saddle. And if it slide off you had to put it back on. Trying to get on and off that horse was a lotta fun, the ladies loved it. Bout as much fun as carrying Gus's leg through the train. Oh yea speaking of leg, I remember the stage where you were hooked to a ball & chain and had to drag it around to each shooting position. And having to shoot from prone or on your knees, I always just took the P. Course I could always make it  back up with my expert knife and axe throwing skills.

 

JefroRelax-Enjoy

[Hoss]

I’d think you would have to have a crane and a defibrillator at each stage!!!

 

the guy levering round in the 87, then getting down on his belly while holding cocked shotgun was interesting! 

 

only thing I could agree with is it might be fun to have one stage where shooter only used one gun 24 rounds. So would have to reload. Shooters choice of gun! 
 

as for the rest of it…ain’t happening. 

[Dirty Dan Dawkins]

2 hours ago, InRangeTV said:

Hey y'all!

I run the channel InRangeTV nd the Brutality Matches you're talking about here.   My video was never about replacing SASS, or taking anything away from an already existing sport, but to add more options to the Cowboy Action Shooting sports in general.   As it stands, we already have a vibrant community of Brutality match shooters and I think you'll be surprised to see the uptake we're seeing for "Dead Eye" at the upcoming Brutality matches.

I let my official SASS membership expire quite a few years ago, I don't even remember the number, but it was 58,000 something, so do not be offended by the 9999999999 next to my profile - I just put it there to get through the registration process.

As for this thread, I have always considered the SASS community to be a fun, inclusive group - but this thread is dismaying.   A bunch of you went straight to body shaming, rather than discussing the topic at hand, as well as questioning my shooting "credentials".     I have always competed in FCD and Frontiersman, which was the Category you saw in the video from the traditional CAS match I included in the content as an example.   My "competitive" days in SASS were a decade ago, and those videos were taken after quite a long time away from SASS to use as footage for the video you saw.

At any rate, we'd love to have any of you whom would like to join us, and we're not trying to be SASS, we're being us.   

There's room for a wide variety of shooting sports, and my love for the history and these firearms is while I'm bringing this division to my internationally run matches:

https://brutalitymatches.org

As for some cowboys coming out and running rings around me at my own match, I welcome it.   I'm here to promote the shooting sports, as well as the appreciation for the history and these amazing firearms.  My channel has a lot of "old west" content on it, and this "Dead Eye" division is a natural progression of my interests and for my community.

I've attached a few little mementos from that decade ago, and I have (as I am sure most of you do - tons of this stuff), this was just what wasn't hidden away in some tupperware in the back of my storage container. 

FYI, that year at Bordertown I was 3rd, not 2nd.  I just realized you can't read it in the picture...

Wishing all y'all here the best, even those of you who saw fit to degrade me and my work without even knowing me.

~Karl 

 

No offense taken . Good luck with your endeavors 

[Yul Lose]

22 minutes ago, Hoss said:

I’d think you would have to have a crane and a defibrillator at each stage!!!

 

the guy levering round in the 87, then getting down on his belly while holding cocked shotgun was interesting! 

 

only thing I could agree with is it might be fun to have one stage where shooter only used one gun 24 rounds. So would have to reload. Shooters choice of gun! 
 

as for the rest of it…ain’t happening. 

They’d do that out at Pala. You’d carry a box of shells up to the line and stage the rifle and ammo on a table and reload as many times as you needed. It was usually 24 small knockdowns and you shot until they were all down or you ran out of ammo, I did it with 24 shots once. It was fun but shooting that stage took a lot of time because all of those knockdowns had to be reset by 2-3 people. The brass pickers didn’t like it much.

[Griff]

19 minutes ago, Yul Lose said:

They’d do that out at Pala. You’d carry a box of shells up to the line and stage the rifle and ammo on a table and reload as many times as you needed. It was usually 24 small knockdowns and you shot until they were all down or you ran out of ammo, I did it with 24 shots once. It was fun but shooting that stage took a lot of time because all of those knockdowns had to be reset by 2-3 people. The brass pickers didn’t like it much.

Just outta curiosity, was Greybeard running those matches?

[Yul Lose]

2 minutes ago, Griff said:

Just outta curiosity, was Greybeard running those matches?

Yes he was.

[River Jordan, SASS 18742]

3 hours ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

Obviously you were there at the beginning Griff. You are one of the few originals that still participate in matches and I have no doubt that the activities that you mention were elements incorporated into some of the stages but was every stage like that?

 

I started in 1997. Come 1998, I was doing two matches almost every weekend for about 5 to 7 matches a month. I shot laying down on a horse blanket about 5 or 6 times, one of those shooting under a wagon. There used to be local matches that had shooting while seated on a buckboard, sitting on a "horse" (55 gal drum w/saddle), shooting while standing (or trying to) on a hump bridge that was suspended from ropes, kneeling behind bales of hay, through windows and jail cells, riding in mine carts while shooting and various other challenging positions. Shot one match where you walked a common firing line for 80 yards reloading pistols, etc. on the way, in the July heat/humidity. I felt bad for the TO's and spotters. 80 yards down and 80 yards back...10 to 20 times...WHAT FUN! Not. Second worst match I ever went to.

 

Some of that stuff was fun 25 years ago on a limited basis, sure as hell wouldn't want to do that today.

If that's the future of CAS, CAS doesn't have much future.

I started in 1998 and we did have a bit more "action " in CAS back then. We even had some 9 , 10, 4+ stages 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

5 minutes ago, River Jordan, SASS 18742 said:

I started in 1998 and we did have a bit more "action " in CAS back then. We even had some 9 , 10, 4+ stages 

Ah yes, enter in the old debate of what "Action" actually referred to.

 

Was it...more action than Fast Draw...or was is more action as in doing chores around the house.

 

Phantom

[Dilli GaHoot Galoot]

"Back In The Day" was wild as all get out and you could get away with things that would get a range shut down nowadays, case in point . . . 

 

Keep in mind that this was taken during a match and to the best of my knowledge a remote camera wasn't used

 

[Windy City Kid]

Hey Karl, 

 

Perhaps I can give a new (to this sport) shooter perspective. Probably because I’ve been obsessed with cowboy action videos since I started 4 months ago, your video popped in my feed. At first, and I’m being honest, you even insulted me as new to this sport. Maybe you find CA shooting rigid and boring, but I sure don’t, as well as the 20-40 shooters that show up at the matches I attended, ages almost to 90. Although you have some valid points, such as cost, bringing in new/younger shooters, adding some variance, etc., calling your video “the future” is frankly, to quote the Dude, like, your opinion man. 
 

I actually did watch the video, and even as a new guy, the time and safety issues were glaring. To say hey, I quit that sport years ago, but let me introduce to the future of it . . . See my point? 
 

As someone who shot run and gun and PRS, maybe when I can complete a match clean, under a minute, I’ll want to spice it up. 
 

Good luck with the gravy seal stuff, looks cool, but I’ve already spent my kids college money to afford the CA guns, let alone NODS. Cheers!

[Presidio]

Just watching the videos had my body threatening - "If you do...I'll make your body grieve for a month".

 

Tho I'm one to promote some "action" in our sport....this ain't what I'm referring to.  If I were to lay down like he did, it'll take three shooters to be there.  One to handle my LOADED rifle during transition, and two to pick me up and/or scoot me around.

 

Also, like others have stated, the time to reset the stage ain't going to be easy to come by.  The crew needed just ain't there.  And the cost to set up even a side match would be out of budget for alot of clubs.

 

Nah.  Gonna have to take a pass on this.  My Iron Man competition days are long past.

[Captain Bill Burt]

11 hours ago, InRangeTV said:

Hey y'all!

I run the channel InRangeTV nd the Brutality Matches you're talking about here.   My video was never about replacing SASS, or taking anything away from an already existing sport, but to add more options to the Cowboy Action Shooting sports in general.   As it stands, we already have a vibrant community of Brutality match shooters and I think you'll be surprised to see the uptake we're seeing for "Dead Eye" at the upcoming Brutality matches.

I let my official SASS membership expire quite a few years ago, I don't even remember the number, but it was 58,000 something, so do not be offended by the 9999999999 next to my profile - I just put it there to get through the registration process.

As for this thread, I have always considered the SASS community to be a fun, inclusive group - but this thread is dismaying.   A bunch of you went straight to body shaming, rather than discussing the topic at hand, as well as questioning my shooting "credentials".     I have always competed in FCD and Frontiersman, which was the Category you saw in the video from the traditional CAS match I included in the content as an example.   My "competitive" days in SASS were a decade ago, and those videos were taken after quite a long time away from SASS to use as footage for the video you saw.

At any rate, we'd love to have any of you whom would like to join us, and we're not trying to be SASS, we're being us.   

There's room for a wide variety of shooting sports, and my love for the history and these firearms is while I'm bringing this division to my internationally run matches:

https://brutalitymatches.org

As for some cowboys coming out and running rings around me at my own match, I welcome it.   I'm here to promote the shooting sports, as well as the appreciation for the history and these amazing firearms.  My channel has a lot of "old west" content on it, and this "Dead Eye" division is a natural progression of my interests and for my community.

I've attached a few little mementos from that decade ago, and I have (as I am sure most of you do - tons of this stuff), this was just what wasn't hidden away in some tupperware in the back of my storage container. 

FYI, that year at Bordertown I was 3rd, not 2nd.  I just realized you can't read it in the picture...

Wishing all y'all here the best, even those of you who saw fit to degrade me and my work without even knowing me.

~Karl 

 

Your video reflects poorly on SASS no matter how many 'disclaimers' you make stating that's not your intention.  Your view of SASS is obviously very negative and that comes through loud and clear. 

 

You say you found SASS to be fun and inclusive, but you put out a video that deliberately misrepresents what SASS is.

 

If you're putting stuff like that out there where thousands of people can see it, get the wrong impression of SASS and be turned off on our sport due to your slanted presentation then you're no friend of SASS and no friend of mine.

 

I don't mind calling things the way I see them and if folks (you) don't like it, I can live with that.

 

You owe SASS and SASS shooters everywhere an apology for putting that garbage out there and potentially hurting our game.

[Rye Miles #13621]

I can’t add anymore than what has already been said except NO THANKS!!

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

11 hours ago, Dirty Dan Dawkins said:

Just introduce a Pentecostal category. The Baptist category has been proposed for years, but this would be more entertaining.

 

Well, being Baptists, we could never agree on a standard set of "rules" to define the category.

 

Even my own suggestion never got very far, "Must carry a Scofield."  (Note the lack of an H.)

[ORNERY OAF]

16 hours ago, largo casey #19191 said:

Would need a full crew of EMT's

                                                             Largo

Especially shooting through a chain link fence...no thanks. Can it be done, of course, if I have too. Had a pard in a traiing situation years ago shooting thought  chain link, hit the links, came back as shrapnel and buried in his arm and face. Not serious, but could have been. I pass. I'm way too perty.

[Dirty Dan Dawkins]

16 minutes ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

Well, being Baptists, we could never agree on a standard set of "rules" to define the category.

 

Even my own suggestion never got very far, "Must carry a Scofield."  (Note the lack of an H.)

You could never have a Primitive Baptist category as they broke off all over committees and mission boards run outside the confines of the congregation. More or less self-governance based on scripture.

 

Wonder what a Hari Krishna category would look like? Branch Davidian wouldn’t work. They preferred modern weapons.

[Silver Creek Jack]

No way in hell this would catch on, say you had 20 people (good luck) show up to shoot 6 stages ,start at 9 am break for lunch finish at oh, I don't know around 6 pm??? Just sounds like somebodys unhappy about getting his rear end handed to him on a regular basis and the way he operates his match weapons I think he is damn lucky to finish 2nd anywhere .

[Cotton Eye Joe]

I'd be extremely happy to see CAS have a much heavier emphasis on physical fitness. I like what the guy proposed in the video. The stages could use some refinement, but I like what he's working on. He repeated several times that a lot of his ideas stem from his love of history, which I absolutely empathize with. 

 

I've shot matches in Arizona, Louisiana, and New Jersey. The 10-10-4 examples he showed are 100% indicative of what CAS stages look like today in those 3 states. Currently, CAS stages caters to the infirm and the obese. It needs to change to survive, but I think a vocal part of CAS shooters would actually prefer to see it die than change. I've been a life member for a few years, and I'm hoping that I'll get to watch CAS change a lot in the next 5-6 decades. But based on the CAS shooters I've met, it may take another 10 years or so. 

[Texas Maverick]

13 hours ago, River Jordan, SASS 18742 said:

I started in 1998 and we did have a bit more "action " in CAS back then. We even had some 9 , 10, 4+ stages 

We even have some 11 - 10 - 4+ sometimes. The 11 being rifle requiring 1 reload.

 

TM

[Dantankerous]

3 hours ago, Dirty Dan Dawkins said:

 Branch Davidian wouldn’t work. They preferred modern weapons.

We'd know where all the ATF agents would be...

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

1 hour ago, Cotton Eye Joe said:

I'd be extremely happy to see CAS have a much heavier emphasis on physical fitness. I like what the guy proposed in the video. The stages could use some refinement, but I like what he's working on. He repeated several times that a lot of his ideas stem from his love of history, which I absolutely empathize with. 

 

I've shot matches in Arizona, Louisiana, and New Jersey. The 10-10-4 examples he showed are 100% indicative of what CAS stages look like today in those 3 states. Currently, CAS stages caters to the infirm and the obese. It needs to change to survive, but I think a vocal part of CAS shooters would actually prefer to see it die than change. I've been a life member for a few years, and I'm hoping that I'll get to watch CAS change a lot in the next 5-6 decades. But based on the CAS shooters I've met, it may take another 10 years or so. 

You've been a SASS member for a couple years...being a "Life" member doesn't add to that.

 

I've traveled a LOT. Those stages are NOT indicative of what SASS is. They do exist, but they are just examples of the types of stage designs out there. The issue with the video is that the author made it seem like those stages are all we shoot. That's a total misrepresentation.

 

You see these fast stages as designed for the infirmed and obese. Without me defending Stand and Deliver stages (where all firearms are shot from one location...which most folks that I know hate!), bigger and closer targets emphasize functioning your firearms to their limit and transition efficiency...and you better not miss!

 

You might think that some of this stuff in the video is new. It's not. Having some of these aspects in a SASS match made the matches go on for way too long. Some matches couldn't do it...try and run these things in a match where you have a few hundred shooters. I guess you could go from a 6 stage match down to a 3 stage match...or a 12 stage match down to a 6 stage match...oh wouldn't that add to our fun!

 

oy...

Phantom

[Captain Bill Burt]

1 hour ago, Cotton Eye Joe said:

I'd be extremely happy to see CAS have a much heavier emphasis on physical fitness. I like what the guy proposed in the video. The stages could use some refinement, but I like what he's working on. He repeated several times that a lot of his ideas stem from his love of history, which I absolutely empathize with. 

 

I've shot matches in Arizona, Louisiana, and New Jersey. The 10-10-4 examples he showed are 100% indicative of what CAS stages look like today in those 3 states. Currently, CAS stages caters to the infirm and the obese. It needs to change to survive, but I think a vocal part of CAS shooters would actually prefer to see it die than change. I've been a life member for a few years, and I'm hoping that I'll get to watch CAS change a lot in the next 5-6 decades. But based on the CAS shooters I've met, it may take another 10 years or so. 

The drawback is that your vision of CAS and @InRangeTV's has room for this guy.

 

But it doesn't have room for her.

 

Nor does it have room for at least half of current SASS shooters who whether they are interested or not are not capable of all the gymnastics you're looking for.

[The Rainmaker, SASS #11631]

Watched all of the video and read some comments... I say NO! First, CAS has gotten to where it is because folks wanted it that way. If they didn't, it would not have changed and it would have died a long time ago. Second, other types of western shooting have come up over the years for whatever reason and, as far as I know, none have continued with much participation. Third, at 61, eight knee surgeries and a back fusion, I'll NEVER be rolling around on the ground like that. Heck, I'm one of the younger ones of the folks I shoot with and I'd never include stuff like that in stages I write as folks either would not do it or would never come back. Yes, there are things we did a while back in CAS that I miss but things change and they stay changed because most want it that way. Good luck on your return to Cowboy Valhalla, I'll stick with what we're doin'. And has been said, you really need to stop giving SASS a bad rap, whether you "meant to" or not.

[Hoss]

Best comment I’ve ever heard about our targets is “they ain’t hard to hit, but they’re awful easy to miss”

[Windy City Kid]

25 minutes ago, Hoss said:

Best comment I’ve ever heard about our targets is “they ain’t hard to hit, but they’re awful easy to miss”

Shot my first clean match last month, and followed it up with 7 misses and a procedural in one stage next match, D'oh!

[Rye Miles #13621]

We even had a 9-10.4 stage once last summer! 

1873,sweep!!
The shotgun was extra 

[Anvil Al #59168]

It's a shame that folks will watch that video and think that is what CAS and SASS is.

 

Wish I could let all those folks know that the person doing the video is NOT what SASS is.

 

Just my opinion. 

[Cypress Sun]

4 hours ago, Cotton Eye Joe said:

I'd be extremely happy to see CAS have a much heavier emphasis on physical fitness. I like what the guy proposed in the video. The stages could use some refinement, but I like what he's working on. He repeated several times that a lot of his ideas stem from his love of history, which I absolutely empathize with. 

 

I've shot matches in Arizona, Louisiana, and New Jersey. The 10-10-4 examples he showed are 100% indicative of what CAS stages look like today in those 3 states. Currently, CAS stages caters to the infirm and the obese. It needs to change to survive, but I think a vocal part of CAS shooters would actually prefer to see it die than change. I've been a life member for a few years, and I'm hoping that I'll get to watch CAS change a lot in the next 5-6 decades. But based on the CAS shooters I've met, it may take another 10 years or so. 

 

Just in case you haven't figured it out, SASS isn't a physical fitness training exercise. It's not a torture course or a history lesson either...

 

It's called ENTERTAINMENT. 

 

 

Trying to make some point by throwing a "infirm and obese blanket" over the whole of CAS shooters...yeah, you'll make lots of friends over the next 5-6 decades...or not.

[Black Hills Barb]

I've been a SASS member/shooter for 23 years.  I remember the days of shooting in a prone position, getting on and off various "horses" from a stick horse, to a barrel horse, to a full-size wooden horse.  Actually, I tore a muscle in my calf getting off the barrel horse and I encountered a shooter that threw his hip out the same way.  I've climbed in and out of bathtubs and so much more.  I've had to shoot carrying a plate in one hand for entire scenario when I was a very new shooter.  Therefore, I had to shoot duelist on that stage - something I had no experience doing.  I've shot at small targets at long distances and large targets at close distances.  Still today, we have clubs with their own take on size and distance of targets.  I've seen both new/inexperienced shooters as well as some very skilled and experienced shooters do some very unsafe things, too.  All things considered; I much prefer SASS/CAS 2023 over SASS/CAS 2000.  I see it as a game for ALL - young & old, experienced & inexperienced, participants of all ages.  It's a family sport and a darn popular one, too!
What I don't see is Dead-Eye becoming the future of SASS/CAS.  There are a very specific set of rules for SASS competitions.  Things they include are movement limitations for longs guns, loading only 5 in the pistol with the hammer down on the empty chamber, and muzzle position on all firearms, to name some of the most important ones, which seem to not exist in Dead-Eye.  
I think that Dead-Eye and Brutality matches should remain just that.  I do not feel they have a place in SASS as an added discipline.  Have fun and be safe with your idea of fun.  But, please leave SASS/CAS out of your plans.

[Silver Creek Jack]

21 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

Just in case you haven't figured it out, SASS isn't a physical fitness training exercise. It's not a torture course or a history lesson either...

 

It's called ENTERTAINMENT. 

 

 

Trying to make some point by throwing a "infirm and obese blanket" over the whole of CAS shooters...yeah, you'll make lots of friends over the next 5-6 decades...or not.

THIS!!!^^^

[Dantankerous]

I am NOT going to run in cowboy boots, chaps and spurs. Well, maybe to last call at the bar but not a 50 yard dash on a range.

 

 

[InRangeTV]

Just chiming in here - when I say the future of, I don't mean the replacement of.

Dead Eye will absolutely attract a younger crowd, and that is the future of the shooting sports. 
I'm not even in that demographic myself, but I love it and want to see CAS grow, as well as the interest in the history and the firearms.

Even if Dead Eye succeeds beyond all my hopes, that doesn't mean the demise of SASS - these things can coexist, and even have cross over audiences (and competitors).