Buckshot Bear Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 U.S. to announce fusion energy ‘breakthrough’ This is pretty big news, still a ways off from this power coming out of a wall socket in your home. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/12/11/fusion-nuclear-energy-breakthrough/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallaby Jack, SASS #44062 Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 Is this another way to heat water to make steam to drive a turbine coupled to an alternator ? ...... or, a way to make electricity without the steam ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 Still will need the steam. Still a very, very long way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Bob #61228 Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 I'm still waiting for the solar powered hydrogen fuel producing machine I can set out in my yard. Then I can fill up my truck with free hydrogen anytime I need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Sun Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 I don't think that I'd buy a whole lot of stock in this "discovery". Reminds me of Theranos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474 Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 22 minutes ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said: I'm still waiting for the solar powered hydrogen fuel producing machine I can set out in my yard. Then I can fill up my truck with free hydrogen anytime I need to. You won't see it until "They" are able to figure out a way to tax the Hydrogen you extract from the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 I'll reserve judgement or jubilation until I see it happen. Seems like we've seen this sort of "announcement" about every ten or fifteen years or so since the 1950's. https://cen.acs.org/articles/94/i44/Cold-fusion-died-25-years.html Quote IN BRIEF In 1989, the scientific world was turned upside down when two researchers announced they had tamed the power of nuclear fusion in a simple electrolysis cell. The excitement quickly died when the scientific community came to a consensus that the findings weren’t real—“cold fusion” became a synonym for junk science. In the quarter-century since, a surprising number of researchers continue to report unexplainable excess heat effects in similar experiments, and several companies have announced plans to commercialize technologies, hoping to revolutionize the energy industry. Yet, no one has delivered on their promises. In the pages that follow, C&EN explores several possible conclusions: The claims are correct, but need more time to develop; those making the claims are committing an elaborate ruse; or it really is junk science that won’t go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 37 minutes ago, Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 said: Still will need the steam. Still a very, very long way to go. Just heard some expert say 10 years to get it to the grid. Hope I live to see it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 there was a key phrase in that story -" being able to smash two atoms together at high veocity without expending more energy than you produce " . my advice to the admin , "dont take credit fpr something until it is viable" , they already took credit for tax payer funded wind and solar , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 I will believe we are on the way to free energy when matter conversion technology makes it possible to convert politician’s verbal bull **** into solid form to be used as fertilizer and power station fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 The National Ignition Facility where this took place is an enormous proof of principal facility. There are conceptual designs to convert the kinetic energy of the neutrons produced to useful energy. I doubt a small scale production facility would be complete and operating in ten years. Conceptual designs need to be produced, funds appropriated by congress, environmental impact evaluations made, facilities constructed under government regulations, and finally operational readiness reviews performed all before the facility is operated and perhaps made to work. Ten years just isn't enough time the way the federal government operates in peacetime. Kudos to the scientists and engineers who achieved breakeven. This has been a decades-long endeavor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663 Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 I do hope this is a serious breakthrough. I remember hearing or reading somewhere that a single tablespoon of tap water would have enough energy from fusion to power a city the size of Chicago for a full 24-hour day. That would indeed be amazing. The fact that science has now done it, even on a small scale, is in my thinking, significant. Baby steps to giant leaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 I remember similar breathless reports of fusion breakthroughs back in the late 70’s - early ‘80s. As I recall, it was going to replace fission reactors in the 90’s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 7 hours ago, Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474 said: You won't see it until "They" are able to figure out a way to tax the Hydrogen you extract from the air. From water. There is vitually no hydrogen in the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozark Huckleberry Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 6 hours ago, Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663 said: I do hope this is a serious breakthrough. I remember hearing or reading somewhere that a single tablespoon of tap water would have enough energy from fusion to power a city the size of Chicago for a full 24-hour day. That would indeed be amazing. The fact that science has now done it, even on a small scale, is in my thinking, significant. Baby steps to giant leaps. A-a-a-a-n-d I recall back in the early days of nukular power that electricity was going to be so plentiful and cheap that power would be sold by subscription instead of being metered. Besides -- didn't Doc Brown already have a Mr. Fusion in his DeLorean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 12 hours ago, Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663 said: I do hope this is a serious breakthrough. I remember hearing or reading somewhere that a single tablespoon of tap water would have enough energy from fusion to power a city the size of Chicago for a full 24-hour day. That would indeed be amazing. The fact that science has now done it, even on a small scale, is in my thinking, significant. Baby steps to giant leaps. Most of the hydrogen in water is the most common isotope of hydrogen - protium. Protium is fused in the interior of stars making much of the energy that makes them shine. In laboratories the uncommon hydrogen isotopes of deuterium and tritium are fused. This nuclear reaction takes much less energy. Tap water by itself is not a feedstock for proposed fusion reactors. I once took an evening automotive maintenance class where the instructor told the class there would soon be automobiles with a fusion reactor under the hood fueled by water from a garden hose. I cringed but decided there was not time to correct the man's ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack, SASS #20451 Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 The NIF is located at the LL Natl. lab in CA. It is a VERY legitimate facility. I do occasional work for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.D. Daily Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 On 12/12/2022 at 2:16 PM, Wallaby Jack, SASS #44062 said: Is this another way to heat water to make steam to drive a turbine coupled to an alternator ? ...... or, a way to make electricity without the steam ?? A thermopile which is many thermocouples connected in series to get desired voltage and many paralleled series strings to get desired current output. This is how deep space satellites are powered with radioactive core as heat source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.D. Daily Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 6 hours ago, Happy Jack, SASS #20451 said: The NIF is located at the LL Natl. lab in CA. It is a VERY legitimate facility. I do occasional work for them. The LLNL is located on the east side of Livermore which is the north east part of Alameda County which is across the bay from SF. 21 hours ago, watab kid said: there was a key phrase in that story -" being able to smash two atoms together at high velocity without expending more energy than you produce " . my advice to the admin , "dont take credit fpr something until it is viable" , they already took credit for tax payer funded wind and solar , The NIF uses multiple high energy laser beams to compress & super heat a pellet containing deuterium & tritium. A 2 megajoules of laser energy produced 3 mJ. It took 300 mJ of laser power to hit the fuel pellet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474 Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 20 hours ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said: From water. There is vitually no hydrogen in the air. YEP. I knew that! (I'm not REALLY getting senile) Trust me, I'm a liberal. I'd never lie to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 2 hours ago, J.D. Daily said: The NIF uses multiple high energy laser beams to compress & super heat a pellet containing deuterium & tritium. A 2 megajoules of laser energy produced 3 mJ. It took 300 mJ of laser power to hit the fuel pellet. If I understand this correctly, it still requires a lot of energy to produce a little. This is an interesting thread. Thanks pards. I learn something new every day! edit: if you put mJ or MJ into Google, most all of the results are Michael Jackson, followed by Michael Jordan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 well , michael jackson has nothing to do with it and yes we have not come close to a perpetual motion machine yet , it takes too much energy to produce too little so far , hydrogen would be a near perfect combustible fuel , based solely on what we have for regulations and our understanding of pollution these days - but hey , water may well become a pollutant down the road - who knew carbon dioxide would be ? its a natural product of our breathing and required by plants .........but hey kill off the people , the plants will die off , the world will be better off .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 Puts us in Chicago, under the stadium, on 2 Dec. 1942. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smuteye John SASS#24774 Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 On 12/12/2022 at 6:00 PM, Badlands Bob #61228 said: I'm still waiting for the solar powered hydrogen fuel producing machine I can set out in my yard. Then I can fill up my truck with free hydrogen anytime I need to. And I'm still waiting for that Merwin and Hulbert repro. I gotta feeling I'll end my wait before you end yours, Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 There is an active fusion development program in progress - a spin-off from MIT. Huge new facility in Devens, MA, and apparently the funding and wherewithal to get it done. We'll see. https://www.cfsatdevens.info/ https://courbanize.com/projects/cfs-devens/information https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_Fusion_Systems LL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Duncan Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 On 12/12/2022 at 9:44 PM, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said: I will believe we are on the way to free energy when matter conversion technology makes it possible to convert politician’s verbal bull **** into solid form to be used as fertilizer and power station fuel. Never will happen. Since before this country was founded no useful use has been found for politicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 1 hour ago, Cholla said: "Kinda fast!" I think he takes the wreath for droll understatement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 It actually took more to make the output. The power to activate the laser was not counted because they said that problem can be solved separately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.D. Daily Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 On 12/14/2022 at 6:47 AM, Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 said: There is an active fusion development program in progress - a spin-off from MIT. Huge new facility in Devens, MA, and apparently the funding and wherewithal to get it done. We'll see. https://www.cfsatdevens.info/ https://courbanize.com/projects/cfs-devens/information https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_Fusion_Systems LL The NIF was built to heat the hydrogen isotopes to extreme temps that fusion occurs. The Devens MA facility will work on creating a sustained reaction within containment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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