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SASS HQ moving to Indiana


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Glad to have you all coming out here. Need anything just holler. We are just down the road.

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On 8/25/2021 at 6:36 AM, Tex Jones, SASS 2263 said:

For those who have Facebook, there's a write up with photos on the SASS page

On 8/25/2021 at 6:36 AM, Tex Jones, SASS 2263 said:

For those who have Facebook, there's a write up with photos on the SASS page.

Which SASS group? There seems to be a bunch with sass in the name?

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According to someone who is on the board of the Arizona folks, they have a 5 year contract from SASS for EOT.   I don't think SASS would break a contract they signed in good faith.  After 5 years, well who knows where EOT will be held.

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On 8/24/2021 at 8:40 PM, Tequila Shooter said:

I’m kind of curious too on why Indiana?

 

I heard it was because it was easier to spell than Pasacagoula, Mississippi.

;)

 

..........Widder

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

I heard it was because it was easier to spell than Pasacagoula, Mississippi.

;)

 

..........Widder

 

 

 

Everyone I know still sing when they have to spell Mississippi 

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Maybe a stupid question, but I was pretty much inactive for quite a while due to medical issues.  Anyway what happened to "Founder's Ranch" in New Mexico?  I know the locals were complaining about it and wanted to shut it down, but I never really heard if they managed to do so.  Really a shame if they did!  Any info. would be appreciated!

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17 minutes ago, Bison Bud said:

Maybe a stupid question, but I was pretty much inactive for quite a while due to medical issues.  Anyway what happened to "Founder's Ranch" in New Mexico?  I know the locals were complaining about it and wanted to shut it down, but I never really heard if they managed to do so.  Really a shame if they did!  Any info. would be appreciated!

The Wild Bunch sold it to a local business man who is keeping it a shooting sports venue and building it and improving it. Check out the April 2021 Cowboy Chronicle for the complete story.

Edited by Yul Lose
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1 hour ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

So, are we ever gonna learn WHY the move to Indiana?   Just curious as to the reasoning.

Don't hold yer breath.  It's a SECRET.  Don't ask why it's a secret.  That's a secret too.  

 

It's a private, for-profit company.  They can and will privately do whatever they want to do.  You and I have the recourse of any customer of any business.  

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1 hour ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

So, are we ever gonna learn WHY the move to Indiana?   Just curious as to the reasoning.

Pretty sure there will be more news coming, not that their reasoning is any of our business. It just happened, give them some time.

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Just guessing here.

It's a gun friendly conservative state.

Centrally located in the country.

Strong economy.

Tax burden less than most. 

I'm here. :D

Surrounded by great clubs in any direction.

I'm still here :D

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26 minutes ago, Michigan Slim said:

Just guessing here.

It's a gun friendly conservative state.

Centrally located in the country.

Strong economy.

Tax burden less than most. 

I'm here. :D

Surrounded by great clubs in any direction.

I'm still here :D

I laugh at it being central! 26 hour drive for us to you...only 17 to the California coast...

About 13 hours to Arkansas....

But none of that matters...

 

Screenshot_20210827-195037_Google.jpg

Screenshot_20210827-195210_Google.jpg

Edited by Singin' Sue 71615
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The geographic center of the continental US is just a couple of miles northwest of Lebanon, Kansas.

 

The median center of population for the entire US is near the southern tip of Indiana.

 

The geographic center of the nation, with Alaska and Hawaii is in Belle Fourche, South Dakota.

 

These are apples and oranges comparisons. 

 

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Lots of sports have more than one participating club.  Look at collegiate football--lots of different conferences. 

 

Is there any reason that a western, national or international level, member owned, 501(c)(4) CAS club/conference couldn't form up? (Dibbs on # 000001).

A little competition can be good sometimes. 

(This'll get me censored for sure)

Edited by Dusty Devil Dale
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7 hours ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

Lots of sports have more than one participating club.  Look at collegiate football--lots of different conferences. 

 

Is there any reason that a western, national or international level, member owned, 501(c)(4) CAS club/conference couldn't form up? (Dibbs on # 000001).

A little competition can be good sometimes. 

(This'll get me censored for sure)

This sport does the same with state, regional, etc.. and they’re all governed by SASS kind of the NCAA of college football.

Edited by Yul Lose
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7 hours ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

Lots of sports have more than one participating club.  Look at collegiate football--lots of different conferences. 

 

Is there any reason that a western, national or international level, member owned, 501(c)(4) CAS club/conference couldn't form up? (Dibbs on # 000001).

A little competition can be good sometimes. 

(This'll get me censored for sure)


Think NCOWS.

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1 minute ago, Blackwater 53393 said:


Think NCOWS.

I don't believe that many SASS members would be willing to take on the considerable expense of changing and/or re-outfitting themselves with NCOWS legal equipment. Just a quick cruise through the NCOWS rules would reject just about every SASS shooter's equipment. NCOWS has never really taken off because of it's conflicts with SASS. If they were to change their basic mandates and add a "SASS" category they might actually have a chance of expanding, but as they are they won't pick up many new shooters from our ranks. SASS has problems, anyone with any sight can see that. They are trying to work through them. We all wonder what ever happened to the organizational change to make SASS member owned. Seems like that was scheduled a few years ago. As it is, the membership has little or no real input on what happens or how things will play out. Decisions are made at the top and the membership is told about some of them after the fact. No doubt that is fine with the majority of members, they just want to go play the game. I seriously doubt that a membership vote would have supported spending the money to move the Phones and ISP hookups to a building in Indiana, no one can tell the difference... heck, half the businesses in the US have their "Office" located in India.  So there must be some other reason for the move, (although I can't really blame anyone for wanting out of Moriarty). A lot of folks enjoyed the last EOT match, maybe a range expansion is in their future so that they can support other large matches.  

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I was using NCOWS as an example of other CAS organizations.
 

Bentonville, Arkansas is a town of less than 60,000 people.  The home offices of Walmart are in Bentonville.

 

Don’t sell small towns short…

 

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9 hours ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

Lots of sports have more than one participating club.  Look at collegiate football--lots of different conferences. 

 

Is there any reason that a western, national or international level, member owned, 501(c)(4) CAS club/conference couldn't form up? (Dibbs on # 000001).

A little competition can be good sometimes. 

(This'll get me censored for sure)

Fantastic idea.  Let us know when you have it up and running!

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It seems just a matter of serving "members." 

SASS is in fact a for-profit company, but one that sells memberships to folks like us.  We have little say in the business decisions (or any decisions, for that matter), but there still exists some level of obligation to serve we who have turned out to be more like contracted customers.   If and when the customers start to feel the service is deteriorating, that will be the time when they will look to alternatives, vote with their feet, and SASS "membership" and "recruitment" will sharply decline.  But as long as the customers feel the service to members is worth the dues and other ancillary costs, they will continue  their "memberships" and continue to patronize SASS. 

 

In recent years, members are noticing that SASS financial support of dispursed events like State and Regional matches has necessarily lessened, as the SASS financial situation has slid, after their last big real estate transaction at Founders Ranch.  Many members I listen to are feeling like they are getting less service and local club support -- that is, support actually provided by SASS; and not done by local clubs and local match sponsors or volunteers.  Members wonder  where the dues and contest fee money goes,  and what member benefit expenditures are made out of those funds.  But with no financial disclosures, they are unlikely to find out.  So it is pretty natural for folks to raise their antennae or feel isolated when they see distant real estate transactions taking place.  

 

The core question is, " What value added will accrue to member-customers from those real estate expenditures." 

 

Folks here are correct that we have no right to pry or ask.  But as customers, we can always choose a less frustrating alternative.  

 

I hope SASS is listening.   IMO, it was a mistake to turn away from member ownership/control and member voice/participation in major SASS decisions.  That combined with lack of financial disclosure seems a recipe for discord.   I hope the distance from the new HQ does not further dilute the service, interest and support in now-remote CAS events and activities.   Keeping major SASS events in places like Ben Avery will be an important feature of SASS's future, IMO.  

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There have been alternatives in the past, but none of them has had the staying power, market penetration, or attraction of SASS. The fact that is it still here some 40 years and going, is testament to that staying power.

 

Has every move or decision made by SASS been perfect?  No, but I challenge you to find any organization where that is true.

 

Eliminating the expense and headaches of Founder Ranch will help SASS in many, many, ways.  That will allow them to make changes to keep them here for another 40 years (I will be long gone by then) but I would like to see it around for my grandkids.

 

Those of us that have been around for 20 years or more have been through this before.  From experience, at least in my opinion, we should be rallying around the campfire and contributing to making SASS better, not looking for a way out.

 

I am personally excited to see what the future holds for SASS and I look forward to the opportunity to see the new offices.

 

Anyone up for a Bank Robbery?  :P

 

Edited by Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L
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1 hour ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

I was using NCOWS as an example of other CAS organizations.
 

Bentonville, Arkansas is a town of less than 60,000 people.  The home offices of Walmart are in Bentonville.

 

Don’t sell small towns short…

 

I don't call a town of 60,000 people small. Even in California that is a good size town. When my family left Arkansas we ended up in a small town in California. It was about 2500 population when I was growing up and was right on the Kings River. It's now up to 20,000. Small towns are a great place to grow up and to live. Relying on local traffic to support a business can be rather tedious. I was in no way trying to put down a small town. Operating any business over the phone and internet can be done from anywhere in the world that has hookups available as long as it doesn't rely on foot traffic to do business. It may very well be a good move for SASS, and a good use of dues and other funds paid, I don't know, I've never been made aware of the reasons for the move, and certainly wasn't ask for my opinion before it took place.  I just indicated that most members will never know any difference where it is and most would not choose to spend the money to relocate without a good reason. I'm sure there must be a good reason. 

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31 minutes ago, Matthew Duncan said:

Fantastic idea.  Let us know when you have it up and running!

I think it already is up and running in a large number of existing clubs, worldwide who can operate with or without SASS connections.

 

All that is really needed is a network structure for a unifying Council of Club Reps, some agreed Bylaws, a 501(c) status filing ( if done within the US) and interest in memberships.   The basic rules for the sport already exist. 

If folks begin to feel abandoned by existing SASS, it would be easy/cheap enough to assemble an alternative.   It's how all major clubs originate--like minds convergence.  

Obviously, nobody is going to do this as long as SASS customer satisfaction remains acceptable.  But folks here are voicing concerns about the new move and potential isolation.  

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On 8/25/2021 at 4:39 PM, Misty Moonshine said:

Moving EOT from AZ before it’s even been held? Extremely speculative conspiracy theory negative nonsense. 

Most "conspiracy theories" have recently been proven to be true, just saying....sorry not sorry..

There is a healthy curiosity about the "Why". 

The "Why" doesn't really effect the membership on an every day basis, but most businesses locate based on their ability to serve the customer.  Unless you are Walmart - then they come to you.  Look on the bright side - they will have nine months of snow to stay inside and grow the sport. (joke)

Edited by T-Square
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Being a SASS member, match director, life member, regulator for about 15-20 years,  never once have I thought, "WHAT IS SASS DOING FOR ME".   SASS is an organizing body that provides the groundwork for what we all enjoy.  We attend SASS clubs we find here on the wire,   we find information and share our thought here on the wire, ALL provided by SASS.   It is the framework that we all have fun.   I personally am NOT asking SASS to do something for me,  I ask, what can I do to grow SASS.

 

Moving from a state that is very BLUE, to a state that is strong pro-gun and also to a small town that is potentially lower cost expense, seems to me VERY smart financial sense and focused on the long term survival of SASS.  Would you rater have them spend the small membership dollars they receive on high commercial property in the the most expensive state of CA???? with outrageous taxes???   I think the location makes the best financial sense..  Just my opinion.

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Hello Toranado, I doubt that many places are cheaper than Moriarity. I've been around a while too. the GAME has been the mainstay of my life for about 30 years and I am very grateful to the founders for coming up with the GAME that I and so many others have embraced and enjoyed.  I have given my all to this GAME in the form of both money and time for many years.  It is the GAME that concerns me and has always been my concern, and I believe that most others feel the same way. We are not here just to support the salaries of a private business unless that support benefits the GAME.  How does this move benefit the GAME? 

 

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1 minute ago, Snakebite said:

Hello Toranado, I doubt that many places are cheaper than Moriarity. I've been around a while too. the GAME has been the mainstay of my life for about 30 years and I am very grateful to the founders for coming up with the GAME that I and so many others have embraced and enjoyed.  I have given my all to this GAME in the form of both money and time for many years.  It is the GAME that concerns me and has always been my concern, and I believe that most others feel the same way. We are not here just to support the salaries of a private business unless that support benefits the GAME.  How does this move benefit the GAME? 

 

How does it hurt??????

 

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When your are short of money and continue to spend, it is irresponsible and it hurts. If there is a good reason, then just tell us what it is and stop all the clandestine operations.

 

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36 minutes ago, Toranado, SASS # 58447 said:

Being a SASS member, match director, life member, regulator for about 15-20 years,  never once have I thought, "WHAT IS SASS DOING FOR ME".   SASS is an organizing body that provides the groundwork for what we all enjoy.  We attend SASS clubs we find here on the wire,   we find information and share our thought here on the wire, ALL provided by SASS.   It is the framework that we all have fun.   I personally am NOT asking SASS to do something for me,  I ask, what can I do to grow SASS.

 

Moving from a state that is very BLUE, to a state that is strong pro-gun and also to a small town that is potentially lower cost expense, seems to me VERY smart financial sense and focused on the long term survival of SASS.  Would you rater have them spend the small membership dollars they receive on high commercial property in the the most expensive state of CA???? with outrageous taxes???   I think the location makes the best financial sense..  Just my opinion.

No particular disagreements with anything you wrote.  That is absolutely the ideal world for us to aim at.

 

But I do hear members from many venues starting to ask questions, particularly about waning event support/sponsorship from SASS, as the parent organization enters into other large financial transactions without explanations. The autonomous for-profit aspect together with no disclosures has frankly bred some distrust. 

 

Responses like yours are helpful, but member-customer service does need to be a part of any organization or company's sustenance.    Few will be willing to ask what extra can they do to help build/support a company whom they are already paying but who makes business decisions that are poorly understood.   

 

Like everybody else here, I get value and perspective from reading the Wire and the Chronicle.  But if they disappear tomorrow, I'm positive they would be replaced quickly, via other venues.  Patriotism to an organization is a good thing, but it does eventually comes down to value added for members v. member costs. 

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Just a small reminder for those newer members that don't know a lot of history about SASS.  First of all about Founders Ranch, it was NOT owned by SASS. They had a lease to use the property and operate it. They did not own the headquarters building that they occupied in Edgewood either. After it was sold by the owners SASS HQ moved to rented office space in Moriarity, NM.  Why the move to IN?? Probably a number of reasons but I doubt the mortgage on the new building is more than they were paying for the use of FR and renting space in NM. If so at least the organization has an asset for a change. I could be WRONG on the finances and ownership of the IN property as I am not a member of the executive committee.

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