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July Smith

Points Rank Time?

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One of the clubs I frequent breaks down the monthly match scores by points, rank and total time.  Would somebody mind explaining point and rank scoring method?  I understand total time, just a little confused by rank and points.

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If you are first place on a stage you earn one rank point. If you are 5th place on a stage you earn five rank points. In rank scoring the person with the lowest number of points wins. He shot the most stages better than other shooters.

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Posted (edited)

Stage points explained (shortened a bit): from https://www.sassnet.com/wildbunch/forum/index.php?topic=913.0

 

see also: http://www.oowss.com/_RO_ Corner/Stage Point Scoring.pdf

 

Quote

Explanation of the "Stage Points Scoring System”


    The Stage Points Scoring System (SPSS) is an adaptation of the method used for many years by IPSC. It is simplified from their version which uses "hit factor" as the divider. Since we don't have different power factor divisions and we don't have targets with different scoring rings the system we use is the total stage time (raw time + misses + penalties - bonuses) as the divider.  (denominator)

     For years shooters have questioned SASS scoring systems that scored all shooters in a match against each other even though categories differed so markedly in equipment and shooting style.  The SPSS results are a straight line based purely on the shooter's time against the best time for the given course of fire (stage) within their category. There is no "bell curve" as seen in rank points, and the more difficult Course of Fire (COF) has more value (stage points) which is not reflected in a Total Time match. The system is a compromise between Rank Point and Total Time scoring. The match results using SPSS are more closely aligned with TT than RP.

     When using SPSS some advanced input from the COF (stage) designers to the scoring system is necessary. Every HIT required is worth 10 points. A COF of 20-10-6 requires 36 hits so it is worth 360 points. A COF of 20-6-5 requires 31 hits so it is worth 310 points. A COF of 10-10-4 requires 24 hits so it is worth 240 points. A pistol only stage of 25 hits is worth 250 points. Bonus targets are NOT required hits so they are not included in the COF count. If hit they are just deductions from the total stage time. The value of each COF must be input into the scoring system. This is what allows more difficult COF's to be of greater value.

     For every COF (stage) there will be 4 shooters who get ALL the stage points (MT,MM,LT,LM). Each shooter gets a % of the stage points based on the winning time of the best shooter within their category.

EXAMPLES:    Stage 1 COF (20-10-6) requires 36 hits so it is worth 360 stage points.
                           

MM winner shoots it in 20.05 seconds.  Gets 360 stage points.
Another shooter in MM shoots it in 21.03 seconds:  20.05/21.03=.9534% X 360=343.22 stage points.
Another shooter in MM gets a SDQ.  A SDQ gets 0 stage points.

MT winner shoots it in 22.06 seconds. Gets 360 stage points
Another shooter in MT shoots it in 24.05 seconds:  22.06/24.05=.9173% X 360= 330.23 stage points.
Another shooter in MT shoots it in 30.05 seconds:  22.06/30.05=.7341% X 360= 264.28 stage points.

LM winner shoots it in 21.46 seconds. Gets 360 stage points.
Another shooter in LM shoots it in 23.86 seconds: 21.46/23.86=.8982% X 360=323.35 stage points.
Another shooter in LM shoots it in 44.64 seconds: 21.46/44.64=.4807% X 360=173.05 stage points
 
LT winner shoots it in 23.04 seconds gets 360 stage points.
Another shooter in LT shoots it in 25.65 seconds: 23.04/25.65=.8982% X 360=323.35 stage points.
Another shooter in LT gets a DNF.  A DNF gets 0 stage points.


    As can be seen the stage points awarded are a straight line (not a curve) based on each shooter's total stage time. It doesn't matter whether there are 2 or 2000 shooters in the category. To get the "Top 10" or "Sweet 16" or just the top overall Male and Female a  SEPARATE calculation run is made with only the top shooter regardless of category receiving all the stage points for each COF.  (This is the system currently used by both the TT and RP systems by SASS from which they pick the individual category winners and placements).
 

 

 

Edited by Branchwater Jack SASS #88854
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OH NO!!!  NECROMANCY!!  "Rank Points" died and were buried some Lustrum ago.  Trying to explain "Rank Points" at this point is ludicrous.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, July Smith said:

One of the clubs I frequent breaks down the monthly match scores by points, rank and total time.  Would somebody mind explaining point and rank scoring method?  I understand total time, just a little confused by rank and points.

 

I have to ask...WHY??

Quote

SASS matches are scored based upon elapsed shooting time (Total Time Scoring), plus penalty points for missed targets, procedural errors and various other rules infractions.

...

REF: SHB pp. 25-26 "Scoring"
 

Edited by PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L
add reference source
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Even though the scoring is by total time, I still like to see the rank points, but only a few of the local clubs scoring systems still show them.

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18 minutes ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

Even though the scoring is by total time, I still like to see the rank points, but only a few of the local clubs scoring systems still show them.

Not trying to be snarky or to hijack this thread, but why would you even care?

 

Enquiring minds want to know...

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You will never fully understand Rank Points until you master the art of dividing by zero. B)

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6 minutes ago, Charlie MacNeil, SASS #48580 said:

Not trying to be snarky or to hijack this thread, but why would you even care?

 

Enquiring minds want to know...

I like the score sheets that show rank only because I like to see where I finished overall on each stage. I could care less about total rank points for a match. 

 

Randy

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21 minutes ago, Charlie MacNeil, SASS #48580 said:

Not trying to be snarky or to hijack this thread, but why would you even care?

 

Enquiring minds want to know...

 

Easier to compare scores on individual stages.

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1 hour ago, High Spade Mikey Wilson said:

Looks like a lot of needless calculation work to me.

Built in to the program.  No extra work.

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4 hours ago, Shooting Bull said:

You will never fully understand Rank Points until you master the art of dividing by zero. B)

 

CV5UzgHW4AAx6xC.jpg

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6 hours ago, Charlie MacNeil, SASS #48580 said:

Not trying to be snarky or to hijack this thread, but why would you even care?

 

Enquiring minds want to know...

About rank? If it is only the top four shooters? I really don't care 'cuz I ain't in the top four unless the match has only four members.

 

And until I get at least consistent, I don't care about any system.

 

But at the risk of a hijack...

 

All shooters are in the same pool? Asking 'cuz I don't really know. I really am here for fun. It seems to me those shooting BP versus smokeless, hammered doubles vs hammerless, maybe a few other slices and dices, would allow me to get a gauge as to where I am for what I shoot versus how others choose to shoot.

 

Really does not matter at this time, I am just trying to stay above DNF and MDQ. And it will take a year for me to go through my factory smokeless ammo and reload with BP. And if I actually develop some skill, then it would be nice to be able to figure out where I am with my "peers." Assuming I care when I get to that point, maybe I still won't 'cuz fun.

 

Anyway, back to the actual discussion.

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Go easy, Pards. July wasn't around for the fight and was just wanting to know what it was. That's all

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19 minutes ago, Marshal Chance Morgun said:

Go easy, Pards. July wasn't around for the fight and was just wanting to know what it was. That's all

I wasn't around either, but have seen clues for "and that is how the gunfight started."

 

Say "Rank points."

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Has it started snowing over there:rolleyes:

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3 minutes ago, John Kloehr said:

I wasn't around either, but have seen clues for "and that is how the gunfight started."

 

Say "Rank points."

Or Colt is way better than Ruger!!:P

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I’m glad we went to total time. But I do like to see where I stack up on a given stage. For those programs that do it automatically it’s nice. But not worth any extra work. 
 

one program dies some sort of % scoring. I’m no where near smart enough to figure that one out! 

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3 minutes ago, Hoss said:

I’m glad we went to total time. But I do like to see where I stack up on a given stage. For those programs that do it automatically it’s nice. But not worth any extra work. 
 

one program dies some sort of % scoring. I’m no where near smart enough to figure that one out! 

  1. Subtract the fastest time from the slowest time.
  2. Divide that number by two.
  3. Add the result to the slowest time.
  4. Compare to your time.

 

If your time is greater, then you suck; otherwise you rock.

If your time is the slowest time, you are still smart enough to skip the math.

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I know many shooters like to see where they ranked on individual stages. 

 

So when I do the scores, I include the rand for each stage but do not show the total rank points as it is no longer used.  But knowing how you did on individual stages is nice.

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I was taking some advanced mathematics class in college night school and was in over my head even though math was one of my strong subjects.  I asked one of our senior engineers for help.  He started by saying,  "If you understand imaginary numbers....".  That's where he lost me..

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1 hour ago, John Kloehr said:
  1. Subtract the fastest time from the slowest time.
  2. Divide that number by two.
  3. Add the result to the slowest time.
  4. Compare to your time.

 

If your time is greater, then you suck; otherwise you rock.

If your time is the slowest time, you are still smart enough to skip the math.

 

EFDC76E4-0D5D-4DDB-8A28-F6EC462D6C45.jpeg

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13 hours ago, Marshal Chance Morgun said:

Go easy, Pards. July wasn't around for the fight and was just wanting to know what it was. That's all

Yep, new at this and didn't realize this might be like rubbing salt into a wound. 

 

I guess rank has a certain appeal, it seems a little more forgiving to a good shooter that has good times each stage save for one slight hiccup? 

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1 minute ago, July Smith said:

Yep, new at this and didn't realize this might be like rubbing salt into a wound. 

 

I guess rank has a certain appeal, it seems a little more forgiving to a good shooter that has good times each stage save for one slight hiccup? 

Please... Don't take us down this rabbit hole ...

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2 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Please... Don't take us down this rabbit hole ...

 

What if we just moved to mail in score sheets? :lol:

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Please... Don't take us down this rabbit hole ...

Alright, had no idea of the whole rank vs time debate until now.  Total time makes the most sense and its far easier for even me to understand.

Edited by July Smith
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All the clubs I shoot at used rank points for 20 years.  I really liked rank points as it

helped my shooting style....i.e.  marksmanship over pure speed.  When they went

to total time it has lost some of appeal to me.   I am shooting less and have

less interest due to total time.  

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22 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

dead horse.jpg

Quick PWB - lock this thread before it's too late!!!

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Love the picture, PWB.

 

I bet that jawbone would slay 1000 'Rankers'.  ;)

 

..........Widder

 

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35 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Quick PWB - lock this thread before it's too late!!!

 

DONE!

 

locked out.jpg

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