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Chert Rock Chuck

SASS Wire purchases for resale. Poor form?

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4 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

So if I buy something at a real good price and want to make some money it's bad taste? Hmmm...seems to me it's called capitalism. It happens everyday!

If someone buys something from someone and pays the asking price the seller was asking, then flips the item for a profit then there is no harm no fowl. Intent and motive was never established. But if some contacts the seller and asks for a discount because of lack of funds or a favor for a new shooter or some other favor and the seller reduces there price to try to help someone out and then that person then flips the item for a profit then that in itself is morally wrong. That is taking advantage of someone and bad Karma. That is something every CAS should have a problem with. The people that I have been lucky enough to meet and deal with in CAS has been so kind and helpful for someone to take advantage of someone's kindness is just plain wrong....... In my opinion that is.

Edited by Dirty Dutch Brody
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4 hours ago, Chertrock Chuck said:

Happens here all the time.

Something I noticed quite some time ago.

Those that do so, normally buy and sell under different names.

I think that might be against the forum rules. If it isn't it should be. I'll be right back...

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Sometimes people buy something and they’re unhappy with it so they put it back on the wire to sell. No problem!

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Went and read the rules, having multiple accounts here is not prohibited.

 

However, this forum is not to be used for financial gain (paraphrased, and with a nod to those individuals who pay for the privilege).

 

IMO, a vendor having a separate "personal" account for the purpose of purchasing and reselling classified forum items would violate that rule because the second account is not covered under the sponsorship for the merchant account.

 

That does not address the "sob story" incident brought up earlier in this thread, but would cover a merchant using a "mask" to buy and then sell under the merchant account.

 

Anyway, I'm surprised there is no rule prohibiting an individual from having multiple accounts on this forum.

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1 minute ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Sometimes people buy something and they’re unhappy with it so they put it back on the wire to sell. No problem!

I agree with that but I think the OP is talking about merchants buying something off the classifieds and putting it up for sale under their business name in the merchants corner. 

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There is a big difference between finding a good deal first and then re-selling it, and lying about something to get a good deal. I have given/discounted things to people here on the wire who said they were short of cash and needed to outfit themselves/wife/child. Maybe they lied and maybe they didn't, I just assume the best and don't worry about it. If someone beats you out on a deal, just live with it and move on. It has been my experience that people who "deal dirty" get their just rewards in the end.

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4 hours ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

 

That way of making a living appears to be commercial, which is not allowed on the Classifieds Forum.

 

I understand that but the op is talking about buying in the classifieds (perfectly legal) and then posting it for sale in the merchants corner forum (also allowed) Hence running their business and earning an income. I'm of the same mind of the OP but it doesnt really bother me. I just choose not to buy from those people if it's something that I saw in the classifieds and then later in the merchants corner. 

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31 minutes ago, evil dogooder said:

  Life is too short to worry about losers like that.   If someone has that low of integrity, anything I say wouldn't make a difference.    I see it as a learning experience and make sure I never do business with him.   Although I haven't seen him in years so it's not a big deal either way  

I understand that. But you rarely have the opportunity to follow up with someone who lied so blatantly within a couple of days of the event. I wouldn't dwell on it either.

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45 minutes ago, evil dogooder said:

  Life is too short to worry about losers like that.   If someone has that low of integrity, anything I say wouldn't make a difference.    I see it as a learning experience and make sure I never do business with him.   Although I haven't seen him in years so it's not a big deal either way  

You're a much better man than me, Evil. If it had been me, I'd probably cause a minor scene and spend my free time telling everyone what he did.  

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14 minutes ago, Marshal Chance Morgun said:

You're a much better man than me, Evil. If it had been me, I'd probably cause a minor scene and spend my free time telling everyone what he did.  

Having just read the rules, that would be a big no-no here. Notifying the forum moderators would, OTOH, be a big yes-yes here. Might not rise to the level of actionable under the guidelines as written, but management should be aware of issues like this.

Edited by John Kloehr

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40 minutes ago, John Kloehr said:

Went and read the rules, having multiple accounts here is not prohibited.

 

However, this forum is not to be used for financial gain (paraphrased, and with a nod to those individuals who pay for the privilege).

 

IMO, a vendor having a separate "personal" account for the purpose of purchasing and reselling classified forum items would violate that rule because the second account is not covered under the sponsorship for the merchant account.

 

That does not address the "sob story" incident brought up earlier in this thread, but would cover a merchant using a "mask" to buy and then sell under the merchant account.

 

Anyway, I'm surprised there is no rule prohibiting an individual from having multiple accounts on this forum.

Screenshot_20200915-181957_Chrome.thumb.jpg.9981d3e646742258f929dd10184c3aca.jpg

Posted a picture for you, so you wouldn't have to go back and look some more. I'd also think about just maybe he might be wrong about someone using multiple accounts to buy and then sell on the merchants corner. Quite possibly he seen an item sell and another one come up on the corner that was not the exact same one. 

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Not the case Tennessee.

Happens all the time, in fact, it happened at least once while this thread was being discussed.

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1 hour ago, John Kloehr said:

Went and read the rules, having multiple accounts here is not prohibited.

 

However, this forum is not to be used for financial gain (paraphrased, and with a nod to those individuals who pay for the privilege).

 

IMO, a vendor having a separate "personal" account for the purpose of purchasing and reselling classified forum items would violate that rule because the second account is not covered under the sponsorship for the merchant account.

 

That does not address the "sob story" incident brought up earlier in this thread, but would cover a merchant using a "mask" to buy and then sell under the merchant account.

 

Anyway, I'm surprised there is no rule prohibiting an individual from having multiple accounts on this forum.

At one time, not long ago, it was prohibited. I guess TPTB decided it was okay, not worth the time to verify who might be using multiple accounts, and not worth listing people that it doesn't apply to

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I once bought a Marlin 39A from another forum for $275 and found out after I got it that it was a "B" prefix worth at least $650 at the time. Contacted the seller about it and he said "That was the price I wanted, got it, no need to pay me more." Could have flipped it at the time for a nice profit, but still have it. Will probably put it up for sale as I'm downsizing stuff.

 

I expect dealers to snap up bargains as they know the market, and have to make a living. Again, as mentioned it's capitalism functioning as intended. You either sell stuff before you are gone or it becomes part of your estate after you go. Everyone checking the classified section has the same shot at the bargains.  

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1 hour ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

At one time, not long ago, it was prohibited. I guess TPTB decided it was okay, not worth the time to verify who might be using multiple accounts, and not worth listing people that it doesn't apply to

 

I guess I missed something.  (not unusual)  I don't know why people are assuming there are multiple identities involved.  The merchant who bought the "deal" did so under his own name.  I was thinking of buying it, but since I really didn't need it, I passed.  It would have been good for a new shooter.

I follow the Classifieds too, but pretty much just for entertainment... (I'm easily amused.) :D

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2 hours ago, Tennessee williams said:

 

    I'd also think about just maybe he might be wrong about someone using multiple accounts to buy and then sell on the merchants corner. Quite possibly he seen an item sell and another one come up on the corner that was not the exact same one. 

 

1 hour ago, Chertrock Chuck said:

Not the case Tennessee.

Happens all the time, in fact, it happened at least once while this thread was being discussed.

    I think it may be more the case than you are aware of. Not saying you're at fault but may just not be experienced on the wire and something slipped by you like it does all of us on occasion. I did some looking when I read your last post to try and see exactly what you mean by people using their alias to buy and changing to another alias to sell. I figured maybe to get to the bottom of it. Out of the items that have sold today because you said since this thread has been going, there was one item that looks to have been purchased by John Barleycorn. It was a Rossi 92. I then checked the merchants site to see if one was listed(it would be bad to buy something and offer it up for sale before you actually have it in hand). There was not one yet. I did however see several items for sale by "barleycorn outfitters". You do realize when a merchant posts stuff for sale on the corner, that they usually use their "store name", not their regular cowboy alias correct? This is probably where you got that people were changing aliases to buy and sell. If so, you're just really mistaken. You didn't mean to be, that tidbit just got past you.

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For me whether it is a gift or sold, once it is gone, I just want to feel okay about what I did.

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I will not name anyone as I haven’t found anything to prohibit such action, whether I feel it is in bad taste or not.

 The point of this thread was to get a general consensus on how folk felt about it.

I truly don’t  think anyone (well, most folks) expects a merchant to buy the items that are almost certainly meant to be offered up to other shooters for actual personal use, as is why most cowboys come to the classifieds.

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There are two reasons I sell stuff. 
1. I need money for some foolish notion like a new gun.

2. To get it out of my way because it’s taking up garage space, shelf space, or a tote.

If it’s number 1, I ain’t giving it away as far as I know so if the buyer can get more money on top of what he paid me, good for him or her. 
If it’s number 2, I am close to sending it to Goodwill so as long as it’s gone, I don’t care how much money you make or how much the dump fee is when you decide to get rid of it. 
 

I see the OP lost out on a 97. While it wasn’t mine, I have had things like this happen to me as a seller. If I’m at work I don’t monitor the forum to see if someone has posted a comment. But I do get emails when someone PMs me. I have in the past made a sale via PMs only to get home and find someone had said they wanted it in the comments. That’s a tough spot to be in. 
I have learned my lesson and now check the post to make sure I’m selling an item to the first person that says I’ll take it. 
The real bummer is when someone wants it but has questions only to have someone else swoop in with an Ill take it before the question is answered.  To me that’s line jumping. 

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You are correct that I missed a deal (actually 2) that day.

That was only one of the latest instances.

However, the same two dealers have done this countless times since I have been a member here on the Wire.

Felt it was time to see how others felt about it. Seems there weren’t many who were aware it happens.

As I said, these folks buy under personal SASS alias and sell under merchants accounts.  THAT to me, says a lot.

 I’m sure the vast majority of sellers just have no idea what is going on. Would they care? Only they could answer that.

 

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I appreciate the interest and input from everyone on this thread.

 Again, I was simply curious how others felt or if they were even aware of the subject.

 It is not my intent to slander anyone and I would never name someone for this as it is apparently not in any way a violation of policy.

 Feel free to continue voicing opinions but I believe I have said enough and am compelled to let this thread rest from my end.

 Be well, and happy trails.

 Chert Rock

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Is it any different than selling a gun to a gun shop and then they resell it and make a profit? C'mon here we're not talking thousands of dollars. If a merchant buys something off the classified and then resells it at a profit on the Merchant corner I say Hurrah for him!!

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14 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Is it any different than selling a gun to a gun shop and then they resell it and make a profit? C'mon here we're not talking thousands of dollars. If a merchant buys something off the classified and then resells it at a profit on the Merchant corner I say Hurrah for him!!

 

DITTO!

Why would it be anyone else business what Seller 'Widder' and Buyer 'TN' make a deal on?

 

I got news for some of you who feel bad because you lost out on a deal............there were probably 100+ other Cowboys who lost out on the deal.

It happens.......we win some, we lose some.

 

And when YOU (the seller) decides to sell one of your items, ONE person will get it and 100 will lose out.   That's just how it is.

And how many of us will refuse to sell our item(s) just because the buyer is a merchant?

 

..........Widder

 

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21 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

And how many of us will refuse to sell our item(s) just because the buyer is a merchant?

 

..........Widder

 

 

Not for that reason. But there are several Cowpokes that frequent the classifieds that I will not deal with, as a seller or buyer. Seems every time they get involved there is a problem or controversy. Just not worth the headaches, I simply ignore their inquiries or offerings.

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Buying and selling is what a classified section is for. IMO if you sell something it then belongs to the buyer and he/she can do what ever they want with it. No doubt that there are Wire Hawks that jump on deals and resell them.  IMO "A deal is a deal". Once an agreement is made, it should be settled and DONE. 

 

If you want to get cheated, then go with one of the Biggest Gun Auction houses in the world. They just flat lied to me about what the selling price should be. I watched the auction on the internet. They brought my item up. It should have sold for around $20K. The auction started, and 20 sec later the hammer dropped and they sold the item for $8K. I was told that it would open at $12K. This was nothing less than a "In House" fix.  

 

Snakebite

 

 

 

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On 9/15/2020 at 8:16 AM, Chertrock Chuck said:

 Is it considered poor form to make purchases here on the wire classifieds and list them for resale on the Wire Classifieds or Merchants Corner?...

 

Chert Rock

 

Seller made the sale for the price the Seller agreed on.  Reseller took the risk on buying with hopes of making a profit.  

 

 

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14 hours ago, Marshal Chance Morgun said:

You're a much better man than me, Evil. If it had been me, I'd probably cause a minor scene and spend my free time telling everyone what he did.  

 

On Judgement Day God will give each their just dues.

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There's a SASS vendor that I always ask first about buying something from me, if he offers too little I don't sell it. If it's a reasonable offer I sell it and I wish him all the luck in the world making a profit, in fact I hope he does!!;)

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15 hours ago, Cholla said:

The real bummer is when someone wants it but has questions only to have someone else swoop in with an Ill take it before the question is answered.  To me that’s line jumping. 

I can see your point in this, but what would you consider the polite way to handle this particular situation? (Yes, I'm sure I have probably violated this one myself)  But if I see an item that I know I want, or that I know is exactly what I'm wanting, without questions, and someone before me has asked a question: how long should I wait before saying I want it?  Or should I just say, "I'll take it, if so-and-so gets his answer and doesn't want it"?  Not trying to start a fight, just asking for an opinion. 

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I've always thought it was rather lowbrow and crass for a merchant, who advertises and sells here, to pounce on good deals, only to jack the price up and try to scalp the items to other members in the Merchant Corner. Not all that different than the crowd of regulars who are waiting when the trucks unload at the store, then buy up all the .22's, primers, powder, etc., and haul it to the weekend "gun show" to double their money.

 

The real bummer is when someone wants it but has questions only to have someone else swoop in with an Ill take it before the question is answered.  To me that’s line jumping.

This is an equally crappy solution, but if you're interested, post "I'll take it!", THEN ask questions. You can always back out.

If someone above me is interested and asking questions about an item I want to buy, I normally post something like, "I'll take it, deferring to [interested cowboy asking questions].

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4 hours ago, Smoky Pistols said:

I can see your point in this, but what would you consider the polite way to handle this particular situation? (Yes, I'm sure I have probably violated this one myself)  But if I see an item that I know I want, or that I know is exactly what I'm wanting, without questions, and someone before me has asked a question: how long should I wait before saying I want it?  Or should I just say, "I'll take it, if so-and-so gets his answer and doesn't want it"?  Not trying to start a fight, just asking for an opinion. 

Maybe, the rules of the forum could be changed to add, if you have any questions, ask them on-line, in public. That way every potential buyer could benefit from knowing the answer. If you are begging for a lower price, the answer would apply to all.

2 hours ago, Three Foot Johnson said:

I've always thought it was rather lowbrow and crass for a merchant, who advertises and sells here, to pounce on good deals, only to jack the price up and try to scalp the items to other members in the Merchant Corner. Not all that different than the crowd of regulars who are waiting when the trucks unload at the store, then buy up all the .22's, primers, powder, etc., and haul it to the weekend "gun show" to double their money.

 

This is an equally crappy solution, but if you're interested, post "I'll take it!", if it is/does/has ...THEN ask questions. You can always back out.

If someone above me is interested and asking questions about an item I want to buy, I normally post something like, "I'll take it, deferring to [interested cowboy asking questions].

I like your first paragraph; but would alter the second as stated.

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Almost ten years ago when I was first getting started in SASS I was working as a teacher and had a newborn, a three year old and a five year old. Times were tough. SASS was a major expense for me.
 

I figured out how to have a very targeted search run every night and send me an email list of all 12 gauge SKB 100’s, 150’s, 200’s and 280’s for sale on Gunbroker.  I occasionally bought and resold them making anywhere from $200 to $500 each time. 
 

I always followed the law, but there were cowboys (not buyers) who took issue with what I was doing. I never felt bad about it as I was asking the going price and very upfront about condition.

 

Times change, I’m no longer a teacher. That search still runs every night, though there are fewer SKB’s offered and GB sellers have mostly wised up to CAS demand for SKB’s.

 

Now I notify a buddy who builds SKB’s for CAS when the rare good deal comes in. 

 

Obviously I think buying and reselling for a profit is fine, though I agree that exploiting the kindness or charity of a fellow cowboy for profit is not acceptable.

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Captain Bill Hurt. " 

"Obviously I think buying and reselling for a profit is fine, though I agree that exploiting the kindness or charity of a fellow cowboy for profit is not acceptable."

 

This is what I was referring to. I don't look at claiming you are broke and just trying to get started or saying you're trying to outfit a junior shooter begging for a deal from a "pard"  when your intent is for resale, as merely a sharp negotiating tactic. Particularly if it's someone with tables full of guns they're selling. 

 

 

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Just an FYI:

 

It's not legal to buy and sell firearms with the intent of making a profit... Unless you have an FFL... In fact it's a requirement for having an FFL.

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7 hours ago, Smoky Pistols said:

I can see your point in this, but what would you consider the polite way to handle this particular situation? (Yes, I'm sure I have probably violated this one myself)  But if I see an item that I know I want, or that I know is exactly what I'm wanting, without questions, and someone before me has asked a question: how long should I wait before saying I want it?  Or should I just say, "I'll take it, if so-and-so gets his answer and doesn't want it"?  Not trying to start a fight, just asking for an opinion. 

"I'll take it if so-and-so gets his answer and doesn't want it"? >>> Something along this line would be nice. I understand that this will never be done universally, but it would be polite. 

I have seen this same behavior at gun shows. I was looking over items at a table while someone was discussing a gun for sale with the seller. Another buyer came up and said he wanted the gun being discussed without waiting his turn. Was it a ploy by a shill to force the first buyer to jump on it? I don't know but it ticked me off and I wasn't the prospective buyer.

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