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Alpo

Weak hunting round?

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What is the weakest, puniest cartridge that you would consider using for deer hunting?

 

There's a man on another board who built, from scratch, an air rifle. And he showed a video of a hunt. Appeared more to me to be more culling the herd than actually hunting, but then again I'm not used to seeing eight or ten does all together.

 

The gun did the job - he got his doe, at about 80 yards

 

He described it as 30 caliber, 150 grain bullet at about 825 feet per second.

 

That's right up there with a 38 special out of a 4" revolver. I don't know of anybody that would consider that a good deer round.

 

As I said, it worked, but it just seemed too puny, to me, for the job.

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I prefer Claymores.

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I don't hunt, but a friend who does says you can kill a deer with a 22 but, you need to be really close, and hit the right spot. Otherwise you'll just wound them and then they take off. So while you can, he said don't!

IKe

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If you are a Cool Shot and restrict the range to 80 yards or less ,,,, The .38 WCF and the like will handle the job just fine ....

.45 Colt sure works just dandy out of a Rifle when used with full case loads of Goex ....

 

Jabez Cowboy

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Deer are relatively thin skinned and easy to kill with a proper shot.  The energy of the airgun you describe would be below what I consider to be ethical for hunting.  I would not hunt with less than a magnum pistol caliber rifle of .40 caliber or higher.  Muzzle loaders are usually restricted to .45 or .50 caliber and above so that may also give you an idea of the energies necessary

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19 minutes ago, J. Mark Flint #31954 LIFE said:

The energy of the airgun you describe would be below what I consider to be ethical for hunting. 

Thank you. That was the term I was searching for and could not come up with - ethical.

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Remember deer come in sizes from 80 pounds on the Hoof ,,, to over 500 pounds up here in Canada ....

So size of deer and range of shot both have a Bering on the cartridge and load needed ....

 

Jabez Cowboy 

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49 minutes ago, Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 said:

Remember deer come in sizes from 80 pounds on the Hoof ,,, to over 500 pounds up here in Canada ....

So size of deer and range of shot both have a Bering on the cartridge and load needed ....

 

Jabez Cowboy 

You are correct....deer are not all created equal. I know of a lot of deer killed at short range 20 or 30 yards with a .22 Long Rifle. Shot in the head. I have taken around 100 deer in my hunting career with calibers ranging from centerfire 22s to 45 Long Colt. A lot depends on the conditions and hunting regulations, as lots of states have caliber size limits. I personally shoot a 25-06. I consider .243 as the smallest caliber I would use.

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Lewis and Clark had an air rifle they hunted deer with.  The exact rifle is *believed* to be on display at the NRA museum in Fairfax, Virginia.  

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Using the stats Alpo provided and a bullet energy calculator the Energy of that round would be 227 ft/lbs. 

http://www.shooterscalculator.com/bullet-kinetic-energy.php


Here’s another:

http://www.ballistics101.com/muzzle_energy_calc.php

 

I would not use that gun to hunt deer. 
 

 

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6 hours ago, Alpo said:

He described it as 30 caliber, 150 grain bullet at about 825 feet per second.

 

What kind of air rifle is capable of firing a 150gr projectile at 825 feet per second??? :blink:  A Daisy Red Rambo?

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https://youtu.be/Z9WEsILY92o

Edited by Utah Bob #35998
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The 22 rifle I bought when I was 16 had been owned by a friend's uncle.  The uncle regularly killed deer while spotlighting with that rifle, with one round to the head at no more than 25 yards.  He insisted that he'd never lost one shot with that rifle.  

 

Still got that rifle.  Sears Ranger 101.16.  

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We are talking ethical hunting practices, are we not?

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In a survival situation, use what you've got. When hunting for sport, always make sure to use what will do the job.

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First of all, SOME States actually have laws that govern caliber and power requirements for certain game

hunting.   And some won't allow certain game to be taken with a rifle but rather a SG with specified

ammo requirements.

 

Now, to give MY answer to ALPO's question, the weakest I would consider in a pistol is the .357 within 25 yards.

Beyond that, the 10mm,  .44 mag or greater.

 

In rifle, the same as pistol.

 

..........Widder

 

 

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This fad for high powered air rifles is fine and good and certainly would have applications where survival, not ethics, is critical.  Many decades ago some nimrod shot the world record whitetail with a 25-20 but it took a bunch of shots.   Sure it can be done but we have better choices.

Ethically, a .223 is mostly efficient for smaller deer typically seen in the Texas Hill Country and some I know like the 22 Hornet but the .243 reigns or did.  My own preference is toward the 25/06 with good bullets.  Lately, encountering some larger specimens of the whitetail variety I've rethought and selected the 6.5 class and up as minimum.  For moderate ranges I like an old 300 Savage just to rile the camp up with "Gawd, how archaic can you get?"  They really freak out when a Remington Sporter 50-70 comes out.

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30 minutes ago, Yellowhouse Sam # 25171 said:

For moderate ranges I like an old 300 Savage just to rile the camp up with "Gawd, how archaic can you get?"  They really freak out when a Remington Sporter 50-70 comes out.

I was planning a hunt years ago and decided I was going to use my Marlin 336 30-30. My two hunting buddies laughed at my selection as it wasn’t “powerful or accurate enough”. That was when 7mm Magnum was all the rage here in California. 
At 125 yards with iron sights I quickly put 5 rounds into a 4” solid steel target. That shut ‘em up. Unfortunately I didn’t get a deer that year hunting with those 2 jaspers. That would have been nice. 

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:ph34r: Personally, I subscribe to the  Ruark theorem of "Bring enough gun."  Better for you and the critter. 

 

I had a friend who harvested his yearly deer with .22 or .25-20.  Brain shots.

 

 

I'm not that good of a shot.  He used a .300 Savage on elk.  Beautiful old Savage 99.

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Missouri has liberalized their methods to include about everything including atlatl.

 

Second to roadkill,  the 22 probably has accounted for by "undocumented" night hunting from an old pickup truck.  I think the only time they try to apprehend a poacher any more is when they try to traffic in trophy bucks.  But that apparently has become too much work or the market has fallen off.

 

The regular firearms season starts here at sunrise.  Goes for 12 days.  I'm staying in my bunker.  Too many idiots with zombie guns hunting from 4 wheelers.  If it gets cold and nasty, fill up the cooler and go road hunting.  

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In my opinion poachers are scum and should be treated as such. 

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When I was with the park service they had a feral hog removal program. We could only use 22s. I took out over 120, from about to 200 lbs with a Marlin-Glenfield model 60 and a 4x scope. If I couldn’t get a head shot, I passed em by.

Got a pic of one somewhere.

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Keeping the range reasonable and placing the shot well, I wouldn't worry much about using even a .357 magnum rifle. I killed a forkhorn mulie up here one year with a Glock 26 9mm, but it was very close range - no more than 75 feet. It was hunting season, I had a license, but I wasn't hunting, so my rifle was at the house a few hundred yards away.

The police expect a 9mm to work on a 300 pound, two legged idiot, so why shouldn't it work on a 200 pound 4 legged deer?

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6 minutes ago, Three Foot Johnson said:

Keeping the range reasonable and placing the shot well, I wouldn't worry much about using even a .357 magnum rifle. I killed a forkhorn mulie up here one year with a Glock 26 9mm, but it was very close range - no more than 75 feet. It was hunting season, I had a license, but I wasn't hunting, so my rifle was at the house a few hundred yards away.

The police expect a 9mm to work on a 300 pound, two legged idiot, so why shouldn't it work on a 200 pound 4 legged deer?

Yup. Shot placement is everything! Get close.

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4 hours ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

When I was with the park service they had a feral hog removal program. We could only use 22s. I took out over 120, from about to 200 lbs with a Marlin-Glenfield model 60 and a 4x scope. If I couldn’t get a head shot, I passed em by.

Got a pic of one somewhere.

 

Why would you want to keep a picture of a Marlin model 60?

:lol:

 

..........Widder

 

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10 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

Why would you want to keep a picture of a Marlin model 60?

:lol:

 

..........Widder

 

Not only did I keep the pic. I kept the gun. :D

 

Edited by Utah Bob #35998
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On 11/15/2019 at 3:02 PM, Cyrus Cassidy #45437 said:

Lewis and Clark had an air rifle they hunted deer with.  The exact rifle is *believed* to be on display at the NRA museum in Fairfax, Virginia.  

 

The Girandoni air rifle.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girandoni_air_rifle

 

LL

 

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8 hours ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

Not only did I keep the pic. I kept the gun? ;)

 

 

UB,

I did the same.

I have 2 Marlin model 60's and they are great rifles.   

 

One is blued with their grey laminate stock (which I took off of my stainless model).

The other is Stainless with a Boyd's laminate stock.... red/grey.   I think they call it their Applewood

color.

 

..........Widder

 

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Found it. Right betwixt the headlights.

BobandHog.jpg

Edited by Utah Bob #35998
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And, this little piggy stayed home.

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UB,

Obviously you got the job done with the .22 rf.  But that is not my idea of a hawg gun, especially with a head-on head shot.  I've hunted wild boar down to Tennessee years back, and hitting those critters head-on with a light bullet would likely glance off and irritate the beast!  At ten feet with a heat-lung shot, I prefer a .30-06 180 gr. Kor-Lokt!  At about  50 yds a 200 gr. from a .33 WCF went through one hawg and into another!  (Didn't see the second pig standing behind the one I shot at.)

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56 minutes ago, Trailrider #896 said:

UB,

Obviously you got the job done with the .22 rf.  But that is not my idea of a hawg gun, especially with a head-on head shot.  I've hunted wild boar down to Tennessee years back, and hitting those critters head-on with a light bullet would likely glance off and irritate the beast!  At ten feet with a heat-lung shot, I prefer a .30-06 180 gr. Kor-Lokt!  At about  50 yds a 200 gr. from a .33 WCF went through one hawg and into another!  (Didn't see the second pig standing behind the one I shot at.)

I agree.If I'd had my druthers, I would have used a different gun. But I didn't. The trick for a head-on shot is to get him while he's rooting with his snout in the dirt. Then you have a near 90° angle to the skull. The best shot is from the side where the skull is the most thin. Any body shot with a 22wil be pretty ineffective. The boars slash the pines and rub a thick coat of sap on their shoulders which hardens like armor, supposedly as protection in fights. 22s won't penetrate that usually. With a head shot. I've dropped some very big boars and sows in their tracks. I never took a shot where I wasn't convinced of a quick kill.  But certainly the 22 isn't the best tool. As a survival rifle, it will feed you, but mostly with small game.

It is the gun preferred by most poachers because it's light, cheap and easily thrown away without much loss if the Po Po is around.

Edited by Utah Bob #35998

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14 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

Why would you want to keep a picture of a Marlin model 60?

:lol:

 

..........Widder

 

 

Why wouldn't he?  Don't you keep pictures of all your guns in your wallet? 

 

I had to upgrade my wallet and then buy a second one cause sitting on the bulge was making my back hurt. 

 

 

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