Hollyweird and lack of gun knowlege

[Trailrider #896]

My wife and I like to watch old Perry Mason movies. The other night the story revolved (no pun intended...or maybe intended) around a guy who decided to murder his wife, using a bolt-action scoped rifle to be fired from a convenient rifle rooftop into her bedroom. He is about to squeeze the trigger (trigger finger inserted into the guard right up to the knuckle. But he changes his mind and doesn't shoot. He deposits the rifle (with a round still in the chamber) in a handy vent pipe.

 

Later, his wife is found shot to death. The bullet however penetrates the body and winds up badly smashed in the fireplace, too badly to get any clear rifling data from. The investigating officer says the bullet weighed 158 grains. Asked if the rifle also shoots that weight of bullet, he says yes! Perry then proposes that any number of .38 Specials or .357 Magnum revolvers could fire a 158 gr. bullet. No mention is made of the barrel groove diameter of the rifle. Now, I looked through the latest Lyman loading book and some others, and the ONLY .35 caliber rifle that is listed for a 158 gr. .35 caliber bullet is the .35 Remington. I suppose there are bolt action rifles chambered in .35 Remington, but for the most part that cartridge was mainly chambered in lever action and pump action rifles. (Turned out the wife committed suicide with a revolver, and there were other, more intricate details in the plot, not important here.) But using a pistol bullet in a .35 Remington rifle...

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

DRAMA, Trailrider, DRAMA! That is all that matters to the camera.

The director, if they are knowledge about the subject, probably

think that a large portion of the audience will not know the difference

and if it makes the story line dramatic, it stays in.

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

SNS casting sells a .309 158gr bullet that could be used in 30-06 or .308 Win or 30-30

[Pat Riot]

It's amazing that this happens all of the time in all types of shows / movies. It's been happening for years, as you mentioned Perry Mason. That's 50?years ago and it goes on today. Sometimes I wonder if they are / were that ignorant or if they do it on purpose just to irk people? I will go with ignorant.

 

One thing that I really hate is when someone in a police show pulls a pistol and you here them cock it but the slide hasn't been worked and you look close and they are pulling a Glock or some other auto without a hammer.

 

Makes me wonder if in their desire to create drama through stupidity if some kid out there doesn't pull a gun from a holster or a drawer and kill someone else because they didn't hear a cocking sound they think the gun must be safe.

[J-BAR #18287]

Trailrider, that is a beautiful example of firearms ignorance, but you really weren't surprised, were you? I'm hard pressed to think of any movie or TV series that got all its gun details correct. "Rough Riders" with Tom Berenger did a pretty good job as I recall, but that was rare. Maybe you can think of others.

 

Whenever I take a person to the range for the first time, I tell them to forget everything they have ever seen about gun handling in movies and on TV. And I bet you do the same!!

[Dantankerous]

Tom Selleck and Keanau Reeves are gun guys and you probably won't find errors on their parts on film. Otherwise, seems the sky is the limit for firearms related mistakes in Hollywood.

[Alpo]

While the normal "hunting bullet" weight for a 35 Remington is either a 180 or 200 grain bullet, many people load 158 grain pistol bullets in them for plinking, or shoet range.

 

An actual jacketed 35 Remington bullet is about a quarter each. Compare that to a cast 158 RNFP for what - 8 cents if you buy it or 2 if you pour it? BIG savings.

[Shotgun Clay]

I still fast forward past the part in "The Professionals" where Lee Marvin wrist snaps a Colt New Service cylinder shut. Guns are just props and dramatic vehicles for Hollywood.

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

Tom Selleck and Keanau Reeves are gun guys and you probably won't find errors on their parts on film. Otherwise, seems the sky is the limit for firearms related mistakes in Hollywood.

Have you seen Quigley Down Under? Granted much of the gun errors are due to the change in writers deciding to back the date from the 1880's to the 1860's.

[Pat Riot]

How about Lee Marvin in Killers using a suppressed S&W model 27?

[Yellowhouse Sam # 25171]

Have you seen Quigley Down Under? Granted much of the gun errors are due to the change in writers deciding to back the date from the 1880's to the 1860's.

 

 

Actually the mid seventies wasn't it? Anyway I doubt the Aussies had caught up to Sam's new cartridge guns by then. Americans didn't immediately embrace them either.

[Tom Bullweed]

I have a 1970 or 1972 Hornady reloading manual that I remwber seeing light recoil loads of 158 grain jacketed aoft points in the .35 Remington. I remeber buying this book from a used book store and my youngest brother using the .35 Rem at the same time.

 

My favorite Hollyweird gaff is done by all kinds of actors, including the Duke, Robert Mitchum, Burt Lancaster, Kevin Coster and James Arness:

Pull that SAA, cock it, decide not to shoot, lower that hammer thingy onto a live round

 

No one ever spins the cylinder so that the firing pin is not on a live round.

[J.D. Daily]

The most common error is firing more than 5 times before having to reload a SAA or S&W SA revolver. My wife hates it when I point out the errors in a TV show or movie.

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

Not just Hollywood. In one of his books, Tom Clancy's hero stopped to get his .45 caliber M9. Does it even exist? Really Tom Clancy no longer writes the book with is name on them. David Baladacci's hero, a resident of Virginia, went into a gun store in Augusta Maine and bought a gun, twice.

[Smokin Gator SASS #29736]

I guess John Wayne, Burt Lancaster and the rest weren't worried about a penalty. Duke even stated "If you need six, load 6. I'm sure if trouble was expected a lot of guys would load that sixth chamber.

[Noz]

I was watching an old TV series when the hero shot one of two bad guys with, what appeared to be a 44 with a silencer on it and the gun went SPUT. He then used the silencer across the other guys head to knock him out.

[Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life]

I have a childhood friend who was a world champion shooter and works in the film industry. He teaches all the gun handling stuff to the actors and is in charge of all the firearms on the set. He says reality and the movies are worlds apart (which we already knew!). Some actors get it and try real hard, others not so much, same with directors and producers.

 

All that aside, it would be a cool job....and he gets paid well too.

[Yellowhouse Sam # 25171]

They don't necessarily even try for authenticity...they want sensationalism and wow factor. Kinda like the news industry.

[McCandless]

Westworld this past season where the girl fires the 7-1/2" barreled SAA like a double-action, repeatedly. Or, when a revolver is fired and you can hear empty cases hitting the ground. Or, "The Strain" where the old man fires his J-Frame 11 times!

 

It used to bug me that they couldn't get simple things right, but now it entertains me, turning a schmaltzy TV drama into a comedy as I laugh and try to catch all the errors. What the heck, fun is where you find it!

[J-BAR #18287]

I love Westworld but you forgot to mention the semiauto '73. Every time Hector shot his rifle an empty case popped out without levering it!

[Buffalo Creek Law Dog]

Saw an old Wild Bill Elliot movie a few years back They dug a bullet out of a guy and Elliot looked at it and said it came from a Marlin rifle.

[Noz]

Microgroove rifling, don't cha know.

[DocWard]

Not just Hollywood. In one of his books, Tom Clancy's hero stopped to get his .45 caliber M9. Does it even exist? Really Tom Clancy no longer writes the book with is name on them. David Baladacci's hero, a resident of Virginia, went into a gun store in Augusta Maine and bought a gun, twice.

 

Nope, Tom Clancy hasn't written a book in a few years now...

 

What type of firearm did he purchase? Federal law allows the purchase of long guns by people who are residents of other states, so long as the person is legally allowed to purchase and own the firearm in that state. Our store has a binder with a "quick list" of the state regs of each state. There are half a dozen or so "usual suspects" that makes it impossible to sell any firearm, but I don't recall Virginia being one of them. Of course, i don't know what the law in Maine is.

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

Nope, Tom Clancy hasn't written a book in a few years now...

 

What type of firearm did he purchase? Federal law allows the purchase of long guns by people who are residents of other states, so long as the person is legally allowed to purchase and own the firearm in that state. Our store has a binder with a "quick list" of the state regs of each state. There are half a dozen or so "usual suspects" that makes it impossible to sell any firearm, but I don't recall Virginia being one of them. Of course, i don't know what the law in Maine is.

A handgun, semiauto.

[Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life]

Tom Clancy has been dead for a number of years. His estate licenses the use of his name.

[DocWard]

A handgun, semiauto.

 

Yep. Technical problem.

 

Tom Clancy has been dead for a number of years. His estate licenses the use of his name.

 

2013, hence my comment.

[Hashknife Cowboy]

Here is my partial list of what is incorrect on a regular basis in the movies......

 

Fire in outer space, don't we need oxygen?

Gun inaccuracies, doing the impossible with firearms.

Lack of horsemanship skills, to the point where it is almost abuse.

Cop shows that get it all wrong.

Medical impossibilities.

One of my favorites, its just a flesh wound.

 

Just my opinion......

[Pat Riot]

The most common error is firing more than 5 times before having to reload a SAA or S&W SA revolver. My wife hates it when I point out the errors in a TV show or movie.

Funny, my wife gets this funny eye problem when we are watching a show or movie and I comment on something gun related. Her eyes do this:

[J-BAR #18287]

"Fire in outer space, don't we need oxygen?"

 

No external oxygen needed in space. Just like rocket fuels, gunpowder contains its own oxidizer. Firearms can also be shot under water, but the bullet slows down pretty quickly of course.

Edited February 2, 2017 by J-BAR #18287

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

The most common error is firing more than 5 times before having to reload a SAA or S&W SA revolver. My wife hates it when I point out the errors in a TV show or movie.

I tend to think the opposite. It's my opinion that the whole 5 only load never existed in the old west. I believe it's a Hollywood construct. Heck, people still call it the John Wayne load. I have to imagine that if the majority of cowboys were loading only five, Colt would have made their cylinders hold five only and not bothered to bore out an extra one. Colt also built in a safety notch, while not the safest way to carry a colt, it speaks volumes about how many were supposed to be loaded. I have never read anything in history where cowboys were only loading five, but I have read many times where cap and ball revolvers were not only loaded and capped with six, but troops carried extra loaded and capped cylinders on them for easy reloading, sometimes with ill fated results. I know that if I were a cowboy in the old west, I would be carrying six because the odds of setting off a loaded round while in the holster would be far smaller while fighting Indians than the need for that extra loaded round. It is called a six shooter after all.

[twelve mile REB]

I was watching an old TV series when the hero shot one of two bad guys with, what appeared to be a 44 with a silencer on it and the gun went SPUT. He then used the silencer across the other guys head to knock him out.

That must be silenced by the silencer how appropriate and no unnecessary violence very PC.

[JudgeBagodonuts]

One thing that I really hate is when someone in a police show pulls a pistol and you here them cock it but the slide hasn't been worked and you look close and they are pulling a Glock or some other auto without a hammer.

 

 

Was watching Sneaky Pete on Amazon yesterday and saw the teenage girl pull a double barrel shotgun out. The picture cut to the guy coming in the house, and you hear the racking of a slide on a shotgun. They cut back, and she's standing there still holding the double barrel. Oops...

[Charlie Whiskers]

I own most of the Dukes westerns. I was watching Rio Lobo the other night. Right after the Civil war he went back to Texas and was looking for the guy in his company that was selling info about gold shipments to the "Rebs". Of course he found him with help from 2 Rebs he had caught during the war. JW and everyone else were carrying Colt SAA's and he sporting a 92 Winchester. This was a year or 2 after the war as far as I could gather...may be wrong, but it sure wasn't indicated it was late enough for those weapons. The same snafu was in the Undefeated with Rock Hudson. The prop room must have gotten a bargain on those type of guns.

[Trailrider #896]

I tend to think the opposite. It's my opinion that the whole 5 only load never existed in the old west. I believe it's a Hollywood construct. Heck, people still call it the John Wayne load. I have to imagine that if the majority of cowboys were loading only five, Colt would have made their cylinders hold five only and not bothered to bore out an extra one. Colt also built in a safety notch, while not the safest way to carry a colt, it speaks volumes about how many were supposed to be loaded. I have never read anything in history where cowboys were only loading five, but I have read many times where cap and ball revolvers were not only loaded and capped with six, but troops carried extra loaded and capped cylinders on them for easy reloading, sometimes with ill fated results. I know that if I were a cowboy in the old west, I would be carrying six because the odds of setting off a loaded round while in the holster would be far smaller while fighting Indians than the need for that extra loaded round. It is called a six shooter after all.

I believe the problem of what could happen with the hammer down on a live round was written about by John Finnerty, "The Fightin' Irish Pencil Pusher", a correspondent with the Chicago Times who went out with Crook's column in the Big Horn & Yellowstone Expedition of 1876. It seems that he was saddling his horse or something, when the hammer of his sixgun was struck by the stirrup, "which by some chance had been resting on a cartridge, firing it." The bullet hit the saddle but fortunately didn't do any damage. Obviously, he knew or was told not to leave the hammer on a live round. OTOH, one of the soldiers was chopping wood, and was accidentally killed when his gun discharged. No details were given. Perhaps it was the custom of the Army to have the troops load six, even when not immediately ready for action. Quien sabe?

 

On the other hand, if you remember in "True Grit", when The Duke loads the sixth round and the girl asks why he keeps the hammer down on an empty chamber. He says so he won't shoot himself in the foot. So far as cocking, decocking and leaving the hammer down on a live round in the movies is concerned, I think it would foul up the continuity of the movie, and so the directors let it go.

[Noz]

I like the movie where it was shown that by snapping your wrist at the moment the trigger was pulled you could make your bullet fly a curved path.