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How would you make EOT more attractive?


Jackaroo, # 29989

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GCK, was WB in existence back then? I don't know I wasn't in SASS then. Maybe someone can chime in who knows. WB has become an event of its own to a lot of folks and not a side match anymore.

No WB at Norco EOT that I recall.

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No WB at Norco EOT that I recall.

That's what I thought.

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Nope, first WB major-event matches started about 2009, if I recall. Well into the period of NM-sited EOTs.

 

WR posted their first WB scores in 2010.

 

For those who say that WB should not be "part of major matches" - the impact to EOT or WR attendees not interested in WB is pretty small. WB at majors is funded fully by the shooters fees for the WB event. WB side match awards are often donated directly by some of the shooters. So, does that mean you are concerned about the time that WB awards take at the awards ceremony? Are you also concerned about Clay Birds side matches - those don't have much to do with Cowboy, either. Or long range?

 

IMHO, as we go into our "bright new future," we need to be doing our best at supporting all of our shooting sports. We've got several going - I'd suggest we keep our tent spread over all of those games related to Cowboy action.

 

Good luck, GJ

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For the public to increase, need to bring in more entertainment...kid friendly style. This is what I hear over and over.

Many don't know it is going on.

Allowing public 'only' on the weekend cancels out a great many locals, who work weekends...

There are pro and con to all, no easy fix....no quick fix.

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Nope, first WB major-event matches started about 2009, if I recall. Well into the period of NM-sited EOTs.

 

WR posted their first WB scores in 2010.

 

For those who say that WB should not be "part of major matches" - the impact to EOT or WR attendees not interested in WB is pretty small. WB at majors is funded fully by the shooters fees for the WB event. WB side match awards are often donated directly by some of the shooters. So, does that mean you are concerned about the time that WB awards take at the awards ceremony? Are you also concerned about Clay Birds side matches - those don't have much to do with Cowboy, either. Or long range?

 

IMHO, as we go into our "bright new future," we need to be doing our best at supporting all of our shooting sports. We've got several going - I'd suggest we keep our tent spread over all of those games related to Cowboy action.

 

Good luck, GJ

I think the OP suggestion was to shorten WB at EOT not eliminate it.

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I have never been so don't know how to make it better for others,But for me if it was a lot closer.

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I doubt that EOT could be put on in Norco nowadays based on the relationship that the Cowboys have with the range manager now. It seems to be more adversarial and the Cowboys don't have nearly the influence they once did. As long as the Founders Ranch and SASS are linked like they are there will only be one venue for EOT.

 

I'm thinking the SASS wire might become pretty heated if EOT moves back to California.

Yul-So sorry to hear about how this landlord/tenant relationship has deteriorated to the point it's at now. -_-

OLG

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Yul-So sorry to hear about how this landlord/tenant relationship has deteriorated to the point it's at now. -_-

OLG

Yep, The Cowboys used to rule the roost pretty much and if they needed the range they got the range. Nowadays they have to do back flips to get the bay's that they need for a monthly. I've been called a pessimist because I've said that there will never be another EOT at Norco but the way it looks it's a pretty safe bet. The way the new housing developments are springing up on all sides of the range except the south side, I'd be surprised if there was a range there in 10 years. Hope JJ stays well because the Cajon range may be doing double duty one of these days.

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Change the date to a cooler time of year, Labor Day or Memorial Day weekends.

That is a good thought.

 

I know of shooters, over the last three years, that paid and arrived, shot the warmup match, only to leave due to the environment was too dangerous for them to endure. Probably never to return during that time frame for EOT. One year my wife shot the warmup match, the dust was so bad she had sinus/headache problems the rest of the time we were there, wore a silk scarf over her nose and mouth to filter the dust, but still had side affects. She stayed, but not happily.

 

As we all grow a little longer in the tooth, we must watch closer the health/climate conditions and how it will affect us. During June, with the heat, the dust element, the dry wind, and elevation change, all will play a major role in attendance for shooters of all ages.

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Change the date to a cooler time of year, Labor Day or Memorial Day weekends.

Of the two holidays suggested Labor Day would probably be chosen. During wet winters the ranch gets muddy. Prep work for the range might not be completed by Memorial Day. Labor Day does not have that problem. However September is the last month when afternoon/evening thunderstorms are common in New Mexico. That would affect the event.

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I like it the way it is. For me, summer is the only time I can go due to being a teacher and only being off that long during the summer. I would love to go to Winter Range, but can't take a week off and wouldn't if I could since I would be leaving my students with a sub for a week. As far as the heat, for me or anyone else in a humid climate, it seems cooler there than where we live. Heck, last year it was actually chilly much of the time due to an odd weather pattern. The dust seems to be getting better. The first year I went I had dust in places I didn't think I could get dust. Last year I didn't even need my covers for my guns. I don't go earlier than side match day, so the other events don't really matter as far as time spent at the range for me. I would like to bring my wife and kids some day, so more things to keep the kids interested would be a good addition. The price does not seem too much to me, I just budget for it like I do the other shoots I plan to attend. I think we will all want something different, but as is, I think they are doing a very good job.

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GCK, was WB in existence back then? I don't know I wasn't in SASS then. Maybe someone can chime in who knows. WB has become an event of its own to a lot of folks and not a side match anymore.

No WB back then and the match was normally Tuesday to Sunday.

We used shoot a warm up match at Cajon cowboys the weekend before.

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Dang, Jackaroo, you got the EOT urge started a couple of months early this time.

Sorry Yul, but we also got to head back to Aussie tomorrow for 3 months then come back in Feb for WR and beyond.

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Yes. They could change how long the match is.

 

Monday - WB and Plainsman

Tuesday - WB and warm-ups

Wednesday - warm-ups and sides

Thursday, Friday & Saturday - Main match

Saturday Evening awards

 

This would give folks a weekend to get there and at least a day to get home. As it is now, I have to take 6 days vacation to go. Modified schedule would reduce it to 5.

 

I would much prefer to see EOT occur somewhere other than FR, but realize that's just dreaming. The combination of altitude and low humidity kills me.

 

Possum

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Well we've certainly had some good replies and some new ideas.

Reading through them all, one can't quote and post every time, so my take is this as a summary.

While the idea of moving it around the country appeals to some, this just would not be a good option, and besides there would not be many venues who could cater for the large amount of shooters.

Also, The money, time and infrastructure put in by SASS to this facility, only to use it every fews years would not be financially viable.

So I don't see that happening, we just have to live with what we have now, which is a fine ranch.

Moving the date...this could be an option, Memorial Day holiday would give folks an extra day to travel home, but it's been a while so the move would impact on events already on that weekend. Earlier than that in the year can be too cold!!

Getting more campers by installing ablution facilities could also be an option. I notice here in most campgrounds don't have these type of facilities, where in Oz almost all campgrounds have these facilities. I guess it's because your RV's are all self contained with them on board, not so all in Oz.

Facilities like showers and toilets would certainly cater for the camp and tent type traveller and may attract those on limited incomes....but the additional infrastructure costs in installing these could be very expensive.

The time in Norco was I think Tuesday to Sunday, no WB back then, but as I've said in the OP shortening it only to 7 days may give folks extra travelling time and less accommodation costs.

For those that say it too far...think about all the Aussies and overseas pards that come along???? :D:D A round trip to EOT or WR with a few club shoots thrown in costs about $6000.00!!! Hows zat??

Sort of surprised that the CA folks still have an elephant in their barrel about the match moving, things happen, progress and change keeps the world moving and if there are those still holding a grudge, my message to them is 'it's more than 10 years ago mate...get over it'

Support the organisation that makes this all possible for us.

Either way many of us will still be going and lets hope there are a few more too.

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Facilities like showers and toilets would certainly cater for the camp and tent type traveller and may attract those on limited incomes....but the additional infrastructure costs in installing these could be very expensive.

 

 

The toilet facilities would be mainly for shooters down at the line. Not the campers.

 

Showers - those could be provided for campers to make it more convenient or to save limited water and sewage space in their own trailer. Probably no where near as big a "win".

 

These are done in the movie business as "self-contained" trailers. No water, sewer or power hookup required. Drag them in - drag them out. Clean, pump and resupply as needed. That's why they work for remote locations. Zero infrastructure other than a gravel spot to park them on!

 

And, I'm all for returning to a 2-day Wild Bunch match. We used to shoot 6 stages in 2 days. Folks complained. Now we're doing 3 days of 4 stages. That could switch to what WR does, 2 days of 5 stages, real easy. And one warm-up day for Cowboy and side matches (and nothing held simultaneously with last day of WB).

 

Good luck, GJ

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Yes. They could change how long the match is.

 

Monday - WB and Plainsman

Tuesday - WB and warm-ups

Wednesday - warm-ups and sides

Thursday, Friday & Saturday - Main match

Saturday Evening awards

 

This would give folks a weekend to get there and at least a day to get home. As it is now, I have to take 6 days vacation to go. Modified schedule would reduce it to 5.

 

I would much prefer to see EOT occur somewhere other than FR, but realize that's just dreaming. The combination of altitude and low humidity kills me.

 

Possum

The modified schedule sounds good, just would need the shoot off after the last wave and need time to get the awards together.

 

Altitude and humidity, come on, just because you live below sea level shouldn't be a problem! :-)

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+1 or more for awards on Saturday night!!! At all major matches! It makes return travel much easier for those of us that work! :D

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Let the shooters choose their schedule. I'd prefer to shoot late on Thursday, midday on Friday, and early on Saturday. Then, I can get on the road. I have to get back to work. The retired guys/gals can linger as long as they want. Everyone doesn't stay for awards, banquets, or nightlife. To me it's a shooting event. If I win something they can send it to me.

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+1 or more for awards on Saturday night!!! At all major matches! It makes return travel much easier for those of us that work! :D

+1000!!

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This! The shootoffs and other stuff can still be done in Sun but most can start the drive home.

yep

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Slick and Colorado, then you need to come up and shoot here with us at OKC for Land Run & SW Regional which you're part of and support us.

Then you can have awards Sat night at the beautiful National Cowboy museum.

With big matches like EOT it can take time to get all the scores, trophies and preparation set up when shooters are still shooting at 4pm.

Also takes time to organise the top names for the shoot off, which if done after awards is tended not to supported as much.

An option then would be to move to Memorial weekend where Monday is the holiday, and can be used for return travel.

So it looks like the condensed schedule could be the most sensible option, remembering that one cannot please all the people all the time.

Hope to see y'all and more next year, and as Larson has said numbers have been picking up, I'm sure it will top last years figure.

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Change the date to a cooler time of year, Labor Day or Memorial Day weekends.

the problem with those periods the weather good be sunny or it could be covered in snow or close to it. It doesn't worm up in nm until after Memorial Day in the south and the mountains up north still can have snow. I remember one of the fall matches was held over Labor Day turn out was low because a lot of families have other commitments and it was cold when the sun went down
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Buy a gun from Johnny Meadows while you are there.

J.M.

Bring some 16 gauge SxS with you and I will. I'm looking for a couple.

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Slick and Colorado, then you need to come up and shoot here with us at OKC for Land Run & SW Regional which you're part of and support us.

Then you can have awards Sat night at the beautiful National Cowboy museum.

With big matches like EOT it can take time to get all the scores, trophies and preparation set up when shooters are still shooting at 4pm.

Also takes time to organise the top names for the shoot off, which if done after awards is tended not to supported as much.

An option then would be to move to Memorial weekend where Monday is the holiday, and can be used for return travel.

So it looks like the condensed schedule could be the most sensible option, remembering that one cannot please all the people all the time.

Hope to see y'all and more next year, and as Larson has said numbers have been picking up, I'm sure it will top last years figure.

Shot Land Run numerous times and Sat nite wards with Sunday extras has seemed to work really nicely. One can hardly give enough praise to awards at CHOF A few years ago CHOF was not available for weekend and awards banquet on Sat nite was held at another facility, while not as memorable as roaming early around museum, it was exceptional also.

I would like to see SASS give this Sat nite awards a try to see how it plays out.

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I don't think there's any chance in hell that it will move from FR, and probably not even a chance it would move dates.

Personally I'm not keen on that idea anyway, it's a great facility and we all must strive to keep it going for years to come.

The purpose of this was to find out how, working with what we have got, let's say ...'sell it better' so more shooters attend.

It's like improving your sales in any business, and improving the bottom line. After all SASS needs to profit in order to pay it's expenses.

Improving the bottom line can only be achieved in 3 ways, you either increase your sales, put up the price, or cut costs.

The second one is probably the hardest to achieve, so we need to look at the other two.

We all know the product is improving, and with Deuce and Lassiter co directing this year some new things may eventuate. This alone could generate more sales, and along with some cost cutting eg. a consolidation of the programme could achieve the extra sales too.

The mobile amentities idea that GJ talked about for campers could also be a big plus, so it would be beneficial if we come up with ideas and endeavours that must be applied to the venue and facility we use at present, and not go off into tangents that one personally would prefer to suit their own needs.

So to summarise what do we have so far:

1) Shorten time frame maybe, similar to WR.

2) Maybe Sat night awards....it may be a long night.

3) Better camp facilities ( that would add extra hire costs, unless a sponsor came in)

4) Possible date change, maybe one or two weeks earlier, ....a little cooler maybe. GJ & Mr Cransby know the local weather.

 

Happy thinking!

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Yes. They could change how long the match is.

 

Monday - WB and Plainsman

Tuesday - WB and warm-ups

Wednesday - warm-ups and sides

Thursday, Friday & Saturday - Main match

Saturday Evening awards

 

This would give folks a weekend to get there and at least a day to get home. As it is now, I have to take 6 days vacation to go. Modified schedule would reduce it to 5.

 

I would much prefer to see EOT occur somewhere other than FR, but realize that's just dreaming. The combination of altitude and low humidity kills me.

 

Possum

 

If they went to this schedule, I could attend using 5 days of vacation and I would consider it.

I went the first year in April at FR and I prefer cooler weather for shooting but a lot of those there did not care for it.

I was able to attend using 5 days of vacation including travel time and it worked better for me.

I have been thinking about going again to EOT but with work I have to pick and choose.

If it was the week before Memorial Day or Labor Day with Saturday Night Awards, It would be higher up on my attend list.

If you had it during 4th of July week, that would help with the time off from work.

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