How would you make EOT more attractive?

[Jackaroo, # 29989]

OK lets see what we can do to make more shooters come to EOT.

 

I'd like to start with comparing Winter Range to EOT.

WR attracts upwards of 750 shooters, while EOT the World Championship, attracts only 3/4 of that, curiosity has got me thinking. Why.?

Now obviously there are or could be a number of reasons, but I'd forget about the actual stages, shooting distances, target size etc. etc.They are both pretty much the same and are both excellent matches, I'm not going to detract anything from the quality of the shoot/event.

Over the time both Kathouse Kelli and I have been in the USA, we have spent an enormous amount of time travelling around shooting, as far west as Seattle WA, and as far east to Gettysburg, and we've had some wonderful adventures and met plenty of fine people, cowboys and cowgirls alike along the way.

In many cases we have come across many folks who have not been to EOT, but have been to WR, and make no mistake there are lots who haven't been to either. When comparing the two events one thing came up..that EOT was too long,

ie. The event was spread out over 10 days and WR only 7 days, so many folks could not get enough vacation time, if they wanted to take in WB and cowboy.

So my take is, if WR can have all the events in 7 days why can't EOT? EOT could surely run Monday to Sunday like WR.

My opinion is, I don't think we really need 12 stages of WB, and 10 stages as do WR would be just as good for the world championship for WB, which after all, is basically a side match at most other major events.

Do we really also need two cowboy warm up days, WR run all their side matches and warm ups on one day.!

Cutting the match down to this length, I would think be a big saving in costs, for both the organizers and attendees, in time effort and money.

This I think would be more appealing, especially to the shooters who are further away, who may use the weekend before to get to the match.

The other thing that struck me of late was the smaller number of vendors at EOT against WR. I have been going to EOT for years and notice a big drop off, maybe this could be a lack of sales at the event, keeping them away, or maybe other factors, time and distance?? Who knows?

Anyway, do any others have any views on this, be interesting to hear.

And in no way am I critersizing SASS or any of their personel on this, they all do a fine job in all that they do, and without them we wouldn't be having the fun we're having.

The two of us must be having the most fun one can have, choosing to live here rather than Aussie at present .....just living the dream.

Cheers

Jack

 

[Boulder Canyon Bob# 32052L]

Well for me and I think a lot of others it's timing. I like many northerners spend the winters in the South, happens to be AZ for me so WR is a no brainer. Like most other snowbirds I leave around end of April early May for "up North". It's hard to justify turning around again and going S after being home for just a month. I realize the weather at Founders Ranch is very unpredictable earlier in the year and in fact was at the first EOT at Founders Ranch in April and it was not very nice out.

 

Just my .02

[John Henry Quick]

Move the venue around with every third or fourth year being one of the mid-Atlantic states. I do want to eventually visit the Founder's Ranch, but that's a once n a lifetime thing. Non-retirees on the east coast are more likely to attend a week-long event if we don't have to spend another week driving back and forth.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Location-Location-Location.

There was never, a low attendance issue when EOT was held in Norco Ca.

OLG

[Yul Lose]

This topic should generate quite a bit of discussion and thank you for getting it started. As a Waddie I have never shot the match except for the first year that I was there and they had a 3 stage Waddie match. I feel they could attract more Waddies if they had a very short, 4 stage or less Waddie match maybe one evening.

 

It's a puzzlement to me also that EOT cannot attract the numbers of shooters that WR attracts. Sure, the altitude and remoteness of the ranch play into it and for some folks who go once they'll never go back. When I sit back and look at the differences in EOT versus the years prior to Misty Moonshine I can understand what kept a lot of shooters away before she took over. Misty and her staff have made huge strides to make EOT that one event that you just can't miss. Maybe with motels being built in Edgewood, which is much closer to the ranch, more shooters will feel like shooting EOT.

 

The remoteness also plays into the lack of vendors. Having to get motel rooms 30 or 40 miles away from the event is arduous to some people. I've always camped out at EOT and enjoyed every minute of it. Water and sewage disposal for RV's at the ranch has come a long way also with some local contractors taking care of those needs.

 

Another thing that comes into play for vendors is the Phoenix metro area is right outside the door to Ben Avery shooting range, Albuquerque is further away and not near the population to draw from. Whenever I've been at WR the crowds of locals or visitors not shooting but attending the event was pretty large, not so much at EOT.

 

Back in 2007 and a few years later there was always a crowd of cars waiting to pay for parking at EOT on Saturday and I haven't seen any of that in the last 4 or 5 years. I don't know if the public doesn't know about EOT or just doesn't want to make the drive out to the ranch. Most vendors I've visited with at EOT don't get a lot of purchases from the general public.

 

As far as SASS members shooting EOT my personal belief is that if you shoot it once you're going to want to come back. Mrs. Lose tries to do planning for the year during New Year's Day and one of the first questions she always asked is "Are you doing that New Mexico thing again?" And my answer is "Oh He'll Yes!!!" and the yearn to make the journey to EOT sets in.

 

So folks if you haven't been there you should be part of EOT once in your lifetime and if I know a lot of you like I think I do it won't be your one and only trip to EOT. I'd love to shake your hand and say howdy when you get to the main gate.

[Casey Green]

Move the venue around with every third or fourth year being one of the mid-Atlantic states. I do want to eventually visit the Founder's Ranch, but that's a once n a lifetime thing. Non-retirees on the east coast are more likely to attend a week-long event if we don't have to spend another week driving back and forth.

This.

[Yul Lose]

Location-Location-Location.

There was never, a low attendance issue when EOT was held in Norco Ca.

OLG

I doubt that EOT could be put on in Norco nowadays based on the relationship that the Cowboys have with the range manager now. It seems to be more adversarial and the Cowboys don't have nearly the influence they once did. As long as the Founders Ranch and SASS are linked like they are there will only be one venue for EOT.

 

I'm thinking the SASS wire might become pretty heated if EOT moves back to California.

[Spades Hanlin SASS#66204]

Move the venue around with every third or fourth year being one of the mid-Atlantic states. I do want to eventually visit the Founder's Ranch, but that's a once n a lifetime thing. Non-retirees on the east coast are more likely to attend a week-long event if we don't have to spend another week driving back and forth.

Yep!!! Sparta would be a very centralized spot to have an occasional EOT, the attendance if held there would probably be off the chart with many more shooters being able to make that work into their schedule because of its location.

 

Spades H.

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

Completion of shade structures for all shooting bays at Founders Ranch will improve the shooting experience. The heat is intense in June and the existing shade structures provide relief from the blazing sun and occasional afternoon showers. Completion of the Comfort Inn in Edgewood will provide closer lodging than is available in Moriarty or ABQ. However, BCB is right. There are few matches in winter when WR is held. However, there are plenty of good matches in summer when EOT is held. Many middle of the pack shooters will travel to matches closer to home instead of shooting EOT.

[Tracker Jack Daniels,58780]

Sparta is closed. Central divisional and Illinois State matches were both cancelled due to its closure.

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

Not having gone to ET I can't speak to it directly, but when I was asking around up here in Canada

which is the better shoot to go to all the serious shooters up here said WR is a far better shoot ...

 

So I went to WR and it was a good shoot ....

 

But I feel there was Far and Away too much hubbub about WB !!! For Pete's Sake it is just a side-match and one I feel detracts from the Cowboy Feel of any event...

 

So for me if ET scraped WB and WR kept WB as part of the match then I would go to ET instead of WR ...

But I don't see that happening so ,,, WR seems to be the better Choice ...

 

Jabez Cowboy

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Now that there's movie business suppliers in NM, two things are becoming feasible that would help a lot.

 

Shower/toilet trailers at EOT. One or more set up just for the ladies. Couple even for men. Movie companies use these like crazy.

 

Big generator sets and temporary power drops on several of the camping bays. Also a side benefit of having lots of movies made in NM now.

 

Good luck, GJ

[Blackey Cole]

One thing I've and others have noticed is there is no promotions of eot in Albuquerque except for a couple of radio ads the weekend of the event. I also agree Misty has done a wonderful job with hosting the world championship the matches the event has switched from here is a W count match come pay and shoot to we are hosting a match for the shooters. Better promotions would help both sass and the vendors out by bringing in more spectators with more money. Plus have a voided system with a monitor in the bell union rotating berms so all shooters get shown. Also if possible a host and commentary with highlights of shooters for the spectators letting them know that we aren't out there wasting lead but have a dedicated course of fire to shoot and phentalies for not shooting it.

[Desert Pete SASS #42168]

 

 

I liked the stages. The match was a lot of fun. My posse was a bunch of really good cowboys.

 

I am glad I did EOT but it is more like a 'bucket list' thing than something I will attend every year. For a shoot advertised as a world championship, it just was not very special. It was also a long drive and way too hot. I keep trying to think of something more constructive to say, but it comes down to a feeling. I just did not get that psyched up.

 

I don't know that it is fair to compare EOT to WR. WR is held at one of the country's premiere shoot facilities. It has a truly dedicated group that runs WR. It is within minutes of Phoenix. And, it is a great time of year to escape the rain and snow.

[Desert Pete SASS #42168]

Not having gone to ET I can't speak to it directly, but when I was asking around up here in Canadawhich is the better shoot to go to all the serious shooters up here said WR is a far better shoot ...So I went to WR and it was a good shoot ....But I feel there was Far and Away too much hubbub about WB !!! For Pete's Sake it is just a side-match and one I feel detracts from the Cowboy Feel of any event...So for me if ET scraped WB and WR kept WB as part of the match then I would go to ET instead of WR ...But I don't see that happening so ,,, WR seems to be the better Choice ...Jabez Cowboy

WB is a distinctly different event at WR and separated by a day (Wednesday) from CAS. Some of us shoot both events. Heck, if I am driving that far I might as well get as much trigger time as I can.

[Curly McCrae]

Phoenix has a very large population of retirees, most of whom probably remember the golden days of the cowboy movies and tv shows. The local news stations usually give WR a plug. EoT doesn't have those advantages.

[Rolan Kraps, SASS # 24084 Life]

For us, it is the cost of the match. It is a long way from Georgia. We'd have to basically take a week and a half vacation to do it "right", and then have meals and hotels. Almost $300 to shoot the match is just too much.

 

 

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

I suspect that a large percentage of WR attendees come from Az. I suspect EOT gets fewer attendees by number and percentage from NM. Then add the large number of Ca and Nv shooters at WR compared to EOT adjoining states also effects lower EOT attendance. Our sport is a senior sport now predominantly. If you looked at the percentage of WR compared to EOT attendees say over 60, I expect the WR percentage number a lot higher. There are several reasons I expect. FR altitude for sure is one. EOT site has a steep hill to climb, WR is flat. When EOT was in Ca many seniors stopped along the way traveling North via EOT. Camping on site at WR is a lot more friendly than FR. There is RV parking with hookups at WR. Additional RV parking with hookups is close by to WR. WR camping for tent and non hookup RVs is kinda unlimited at WR. There are showers and real toilets for non RV campers at WR. There are at least a dozen hotels or more within 5 miles or so of WR, as well as many many resturants and shopping for non shooters. Finally EOT competes schedule wise with many other multi day matches within a week or so of EOT. Many folks are committed one way or another to these local matches at all levels. There are far fewer multiday matches at the end of Feb when WR occurs. WR benefits from a dedicated year around large fixed work crew.

[mean gun mark]

This topic should generate quite a bit of discussion and thank you for getting it started. As a Waddie I have never shot the match except for the first year that I was there and they had a 3 stage Waddie match. I feel they could attract more Waddies if they had a very short, 4 stage or less Waddie match maybe one evening.

 

It's a puzzlement to me also that EOT cannot attract the numbers of shooters that WR attracts. Sure, the altitude and remoteness of the ranch play into it and for some folks who go once they'll never go back. When I sit back and look at the differences in EOT versus the years prior to Misty Moonshine I can understand what kept a lot of shooters away before she took over. Misty and her staff have made huge strides to make EOT that one event that you just can't miss. Maybe with motels being built in Edgewood, which is much closer to the ranch, more shooters will feel like shooting EOT.

 

The remoteness also plays into the lack of vendors. Having to get motel rooms 30 or 40 miles away from the event is arduous to some people. I've always camped out at EOT and enjoyed every minute of it. Water and sewage disposal for RV's at the ranch has come a long way also with some local contractors taking care of those needs.

 

Another thing that comes into play for vendors is the Phoenix metro area is right outside the door to Ben Avery shooting range, Albuquerque is further away and not near the population to draw from. Whenever I've been at WR the crowds of locals or visitors not shooting but attending the event was pretty large, not so much at EOT.

 

Back in 2007 and a few years later there was always a crowd of cars waiting to pay for parking at EOT on Saturday and I haven't seen any of that in the last 4 or 5 years. I don't know if the public doesn't know about EOT or just doesn't want to make the drive out to the ranch. Most vendors I've visited with at EOT don't get a lot of purchases from the general public.

 

As far as SASS members shooting EOT my personal belief is that if you shoot it once you're going to want to come back. Mrs. Lose tries to do planning for the year during New Year's Day and one of the first questions she always asked is "Are you doing that New Mexico thing again?" And my answer is "Oh He'll Yes!!!" and the yearn to make the journey to EOT sets in.

 

So folks if you haven't been there you should be part of EOT once in your lifetime and if I know a lot of you like I think I do it won't be your one and only trip to EOT. I'd love to shake your hand and say howdy when you get to the main gate.

If I ever do get to attend EOT I look forward to meeting you and saying howdy. I will be attending WR for the second time this year. living in Ohio, Phoenix in Feb is hard to beat.

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

When EOT was in Norco, how many days were used for the total match including all side matches and warm ups. I can not remember.

[Yul Lose]

As Edgewood grows and motels are built there I suspect that it will help EOT draw a few more shooters. Sitting up at the gate I get a chance to visit with everyone and a lot of folks don't like to come out to the ranch and shoot the match and then go back to a motel in Moriarty or ABQ and change clothes and then drive back out to the ranch for evening events. So I'm hoping that the Edgewood motel boon will help. I've heard a lot of good things said about restaurants in Edgewood and close by but have never had the opportunity or means to go into town and check them out, so finding a good place to eat doesn't seem to be an issue.

 

It is quite a jaunt to get there that's for sure I drive about 980 miles I guess one way. Once I get to the ranch though it really feels like home. The SASS crew goes out of their way to make EVERYONE feel welcome. I've had medical issues in the past and I can't say enough about the SASS nurses and the care they gave me.

 

I've been trying to get more California pards to make the trip, there are still a few that have hard feelings over the move to New Mexico but I'm seeing more shooters from my neck of the woods making the trip.

 

I don't know what the SASS promotions budget is for promoting EOT in ABQ, Santa Fe and Taos and other locals but it seems that the in state visitors have dropped off over the years.

[Yul Lose]

If I ever do get to attend EOT I look forward to meeting you and saying howdy. I will be attending WR for the second time this year. living in Ohio, Phoenix in Feb is hard to beat.

I look forward to it.

[Straight Arrow Hombre]

I'm planning to attend EOT for the first time this year and I'm really looking forward to it!! I have an idea what to expect as I have many pards that shoot EOT regularly. NM in June may/will be hot, but I'll survive. I'll camp on the range with no hook up, just like how I camp at WR. I've watched the attendance numbers for EOT over the last few years, and it sure seems like they're doing something right. The attendance keeps going up and I believe EOT had around 650 Cowboy shooters last year, so it seems plenty of folks are making time for OUR World Championship. With match directors like TA, Lassiter, and now Deuce, how can EOT not be a great match!

[Yul Lose]

When EOT was in Norco, how many days were used for the total match including all side matches and warm ups. I can not remember.

GCK, was WB in existence back then? I don't know I wasn't in SASS then. Maybe someone can chime in who knows. WB has become an event of its own to a lot of folks and not a side match anymore.

[Calvin N. Hobbes, 17218]

Free Panda's for everybody!

 

[Yul Lose]

Dang, Jackaroo, you got the EOT urge started a couple of months early this time.

[Matthew Duncan]

3 days on the trail getting there. More trail time back and forth from motel to range and back again. Just to face another 3 days riding home.

 

A saying that, I'd still want to attend at least once. Just too much trail time to do a bit of shooting.

[Griff]

Response censored.

[Griff]

GCK, was WB in existence back then? I don't know I wasn't in SASS then. Maybe someone can chime in who knows. WB has become an event of its own to a lot of folks and not a side match anymore.

I believe yes.

[Yul Lose]

I believe yes.

Was it promoted like it is now as a stand alone type of event.

[Del Rio Pete]

I enjoyed my first EOT.

Yul was the first person I met, so that started my experience on a positive note.

I didn't shoot and only attended Thursday thru Sunday.

It seems a Monday through Friday event might allow more non-retirees to attend.

That way they could travel on the weekends.

Maybe a warm-up on Sunday?

I definately won't ever attend a full ten day event. Just too long to be away from home and way too expensive.

Perhaps I'll be able to attend WR to compare the two.

Thanks for all the work SASS does to put on the event. Had a blast.

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

Sparta is closed. Central divisional and Illinois State matches were both cancelled due to its closure.

 

Sparta is very much open, but the short term politics have had some fall out. A large match could be held there is the right people put it together.

 

CR

[Tracker Jack Daniels,58780]

I stand corrected. I figured it must be closed for the cancellation of two large matches to occur. I think the politics in Illinois may be hard to overcome at any rate to assure the continued existence of the Sparta range.

[Kid Rich]

I was of the impression that there were 700+ shooters at EOT this year. Seems like closer to 90%. kR

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

I was of the impression that there were 700+ shooters at EOT this year. Seems like closer to 90%. kR

The match results are posted on the EOT website.

 

2016 - 612 shooters

2015 - 527 shooters

 

The match numbers have been rising dramatically the past few years. Great match directors and leadership by the SASS front office have done wonders. Moving EOT around from year-to-year sounds good on paper but there are few locations with the infrastructure to efficiently handle 600+ shooters.