Clarification- shooting gunfighter style

[Sergeant Duroc]

In an effort to build my own capacity as it relates to the manuals and wanting to do the right thing at our monthly matches I would like some clarification on something I came across in the manual. I've had a healthy debate with the locals and thought I'd throw it out to all of you for clarity. Again, I'm looking for clarity .

 

From page 11 in the RO11 manual:

 

Stage instructions that specify separate revolvers such as "first pistol/second pistol"; "left revolver/right revolver"; or "with each handgun" are considered as "1st five shots/2nd five shots" when shooting GUNFIGHTER STYLE.

 

I've been to shoots where folks say "You're lucky to be shooting gunfighter because you can game this one". So let me give you an example. There are five pistol targets and the directions read "With each pistol engage each of the targets once". The gunfighter then double-taps the targets left to right. Technically he/she engaged each of the targets with both pistols, but based on the red highlight above I'm not sure this is allowable. I interpret this to mean the first five shots, whether from one gun or two, would "act" as the first pistol and they should hit all five targets and then the second five rounds would hit all five targets. If it IS allowable I'd like someone to clarify what the red highlight above means.

 

I don't shoot gunfighter so this isn't about me. It's sometimes a confusing category for spotters, ect. because gunfighters can approach targets in a somewhat different way that may confuse people. I just want to be able to lead my club with accurate info.

 

Ok, have at it!

[billy broncstomper]

Given that wording for stage instructions it would be hard not to allow a gunfighter to do a double tap sweep. If it had said first pistol, second pistol or sweep targets twice that would be different. Just my opinion.

[Yusta B.]

Misread it, I was wrong again ....

[Phiren Smoke GUNFIGHTER]

 

 

I interpret this to mean the first five shots, whether from one gun or two, would "act" as the first pistol and they should hit all five targets and then the second five rounds would hit all five targets.

Sarge,

 

You are correct with this interpretation. A GF may not engage targets in an order not available to other shooters. If a traditional shooter or a duelist were to double tap the targets they would not be able to engage all five targets with each pistol. This ruling helps eliminate the "What was written vs. what was meant" argument.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Smoke

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

No. Doesn't really matter how it's said in stage instructions. A gunfighter cannot shoot a stage in a way others can't. As written, first five shots is first pistol. Second five shots is second pistol.

 

Smoke beat me to it.

[Texas Bart]

In an effort to build my own capacity as it relates to the manuals and wanting to do the right thing at our monthly matches I would like some clarification on something I came across in the manual. I've had a healthy debate with the locals and thought I'd throw it out to all of you for clarity. Again, I'm looking for clarity .

 

From page 11 in the RO11 manual:

 

Stage instructions that specify separate revolvers such as "first pistol/second pistol"; "left revolver/right revolver"; or "with each handgun" are considered as "1st five shots/2nd five shots" when shooting GUNFIGHTER STYLE.

 

I've been to shoots where folks say "You're lucky to be shooting gunfighter because you can game this one". So let me give you an example. There are five pistol targets and the directions read "With each pistol engage each of the targets once". The gunfighter then double-taps the targets left to right. Technically he/she engaged each of the targets with both pistols, but based on the red highlight above I'm not sure this is allowable. I interpret this to mean the first five shots, whether from one gun or two, would "act" as the first pistol and they should hit all five targets and then the second five rounds would hit all five targets. If it IS allowable I'd like someone to clarify what the red highlight above means.

 

I don't shoot gunfighter so this isn't about me. It's sometimes a confusing category for spotters, ect. because gunfighters can approach targets in a somewhat different way that may confuse people. I just want to be able to lead my club with accurate info.

 

Ok, have at it!

If I'm reading what's in red correctly, double-tap sweep would not be allowed.

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

it would be interesting to know what club this was!! that was clarified many many years ago, and to my knowledge, and I've been shooting GF for like 15 yrs, you have ALWAYS had to shoot it the same as everyone else.

[Blastmaster]

Perhaps not a SASS sanctioned monthly match and using local customs.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

Read the entire GF section...including the statements before and after the one in question.

​That should provide additional understanding of how a GF may engage targets.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

Perhaps not a SASS sanctioned monthly match and using local customs.

 

If they are not SASS-sanctioned, why address an inquiry here regarding application of SASS rules?

[billy broncstomper]

Technically, couldn't a two handed shooter or duelist engage the 5 targets in a 1,1 2,2 3,3 4,4 5,5 order staging or reholstering pistols between shots? Given those exact stage instructions?

[Nasty Nels]

"With each pistol engage each of the targets once."

 

Sometimes it helps to comprehend what you read and take PWB's suggestion. My first post was totally wrong!

 

As written, "each pistol" you need to shoot 5 from one pistol then 5 from the other. Double taps are not ok.

 

NN

[Blastmaster]

If they are not SASS-sanctioned, why address an inquiry here regarding application of SASS rules?

The club may be affiliated to SASS but consider their monthlies as practice matches and thus decide which rules they think are important. Only the more knowledgeable understand the deviantions. The OP is trying to sort out fact from fiction, I applaud the OP for going to the books before posting.

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

"With each pistol engage each of the targets once."

 

Sometimes it helps to comprehend what you read and take PWB's suggestion. My first post was totally wrong!

 

As written, "each pistol" you need to shoot 5 from one pistol then 5 from the other. Double taps are ok.

 

NN

You still cannot double tap. GF is shot 5 shots then 5 shots. Unless double taps are OK for all shooters, they are not OK for GF.

 

CR

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

WRONG. The stage instruction said "With each pistol, engage each target once." That's it. There are NO OTHER qualifying instructions. ALL shooters must engage each target once with each pistol. If your category requires you to use one pistol, holster then use the other pistol,

that's YOUR problem.

 

If I as a Gunfighter, pull both pistols and double tap across, I have complied FULLY with the stage instructions. The instructions are applied

EXACTLY as written.

 

Coffinmaker

[Wyatt]

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee....................this is fun!

[Goody, SASS #26190]

WRONG. The stage instruction said "With each pistol, engage each target once." That's it. There are NO OTHER qualifying instructions. ALL shooters must engage each target once with each pistol. If your category requires you to use one pistol, holster then use the other pistol,

that's YOUR problem.

 

If I as a Gunfighter, pull both pistols and double tap across, I have complied FULLY with the stage instructions. The instructions are applied

EXACTLY as written.

 

Coffinmaker

 

 

I think you are mistaken, CC.

 

Stage instructions that specify

separate revolvers such as "first pistol/second pistol"; "left revolver/right revolver"; or "with each handgun" are considered as "1st five shots/2nd five shots" when shooting GUNFIGHTER STYLE.

[Noz]

I have no dog in this fight but it seems to me the gunfighter in question engaged the targets from left to right with his left pistol and his right pistol. He just did them at the same time.

[Grizzly Dave]

Shooters Handbook, page 14, RO2 page 11. Like it or not, agree with it or not, the handbooks are clear on the subject.

[Buck D. Law, SASS #62183]

Technically, couldn't a two handed shooter or duelist engage the 5 targets in a 1,1 2,2 3,3 4,4 5,5 order staging or reholstering pistols between shots? Given those exact stage instructions?

Yes, a two handed or duelist could if they foolishly chose to do so.

 

Here is the rule that disallows it for a gunfighter.

 

RO2, page 11: Stage instructions that specify separate revolvers such as "first pistol/second pistol"; "left revolver/right revolver"; or "with each handgun" are considered as "1st five shots/2nd five shots" when shooting GUNFIGHTER STYLE.

[CodyMaverick]

The stage instructions are a little ambiguous. Personally; when I'm going to do something in a way I think might cause a controversy, I explain it to the one in charge and get a ruling before I do it. I would rather not get any penalties when I shoot and I don't want the 'committee' to have to debate what I did after the fact.

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

The stage instructions are a little ambiguous. Personally; when I'm going to do something in a way I think might cause a controversy, I explain it to the one in charge and get a ruling before I do it. I would rather not get any penalties when I shoot and I don't want the 'committee' to have to debate what I did after the fact.

Stage instructions are not ambiguous. A shooter needs to know the requirements of their category. As a GFer, the rules are clear.

 

CR

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

Someday (sooner rather than later) stage writers will eliminate

"first pistol/second pistol"; "left revolver/right revolver"; or "with each handgun"

from their stage writing vocabulary.

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

Simply write "shooter will engage pistol targets (fill in sequence) per their shooting category"

[CodyMaverick]

Simply write "shooter will engage pistol targets (fill in sequence) per their shooting category"

+1

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

Simply write "shooter will engage pistol targets (fill in sequence) per their shooting category"

I guess I have issues with over explaining things. If you shoot in a category, you should know the requirements and limitations of that category. The rules covering this situation could not be more clear. By these standards, you'd need to remind clothing category shooters to dress correctly. Granted, there are different ways to shoot some stages, but they all must meet the rules.

 

CR

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

REF also "Stage Convention" #8

[Badlands Bob #61228]

Stage instructions are not ambiguous. A shooter needs to know the requirements of their category. As a GFer, the rules are clear.

 

CR

The rules are clear. It's the application I have trouble with sometimes.

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

The rules are clear. It's the application I have trouble with sometimes.

I've been know to wish they were different from time to time - 'specially when I broke 'em

 

CR

[CodyMaverick]

Stage instructions are not ambiguous. A shooter needs to know the requirements of their category. As a GFer, the rules are clear.

 

CR

Yes they are. Yes they should. No they're not

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

Yes they are. Yes they should. No they're not

Current Shooters Handbook (available and pinned at the top of this page) , page 14 - highlighted, & page 22, item #8.

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

I guess I have issues with over explaining things. If you shoot in a category, you should know the requirements and limitations of that category. The rules covering this situation could not be more clear. By these standards, you'd need to remind clothing category shooters to dress correctly. Granted, there are different ways to shoot some stages, but they all must meet the rules.

 

CR

I agree, stage instructions can get to wordy wordy trying to explain what's allowed for each category ......to play this game, RO, spotter...etc..etc you should know and understand the basic rules and stage conventions. I like stages like this and always try to leave them open for options when possible.....can't stand always "start on the left bla bla"..."start on the left bla bla" Good Luck

 

Jefro Relax-Enjoy

[Marauder SASS #13056]

Scheech!

 

Do we have to list each shot individually now! I sure hope not.

[Barry Sloe]

Make sure when you write or, in this case, read the stage instructions that you don't add something that is not there. Stage instructions state to engage each target once from each pistol. First pistol/second pistol not there. No double taps not there. Therefore, a gunfighter using each pistol to hit each of the targets once has satisfied the instructions.

 

BS

[Captain Bill Burt]

Simply write "shooter will engage pistol targets (fill in sequence) per their shooting category"

I like: "with pistols as needed.....

 

To me removing ambiguity from the directions without having them go for pages is a big part of getting stages right.