Clarification- shooting gunfighter style

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

A GF MUST engage the senario in the same manner as everyone else, unless it says shoot it any way you want!!!!

 

There is no first or second revolver,,,, it is first 5 shots and second 5 shots!!!!

 

I dare you to go to winter range or just about any other shoot and try doing it differently,,,,, you will get a bonus!!! a 10 second bonus!!!

 

this ain't rocket science folks!!!!

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

Make sure when you write or, in this case, read the stage instructions that you don't add something that is not there. Stage instructions state to engage each target once from each pistol. First pistol/second pistol not there. No double taps not there. Therefore, a gunfighter using each pistol to hit each of the targets once has satisfied the instructions.

 

BS

Howdy Barry, nope, that's what the OP is all about. When written as "each pistol" that simply means 1st 5 rounds / 2nd 5 rounds. Read this from BDLs' post #20. Good Luck

 

Here is the rule that disallows it for a gunfighter.

 

RO2, page 11: Stage instructions that specify separate revolvers such as "first pistol/second pistol"; "left revolver/right revolver"; or "with each handgun" are considered as "1st five shots/2nd five shots" when shooting GUNFIGHTER STYLE.

 

Jefro Relax-Enjoy

 

[Buck D. Law, SASS #62183]

Make sure when you write or, in this case, read the stage instructions that you don't add something that is not there. Stage instructions state to engage each target once from each pistol. First pistol/second pistol not there. No double taps not there. Therefore, a gunfighter using each pistol to hit each of the targets once has satisfied the instructions.

 

BS

"Such as" are powerful words. These two words remove all possibility from any wording written in a stage that would indicate that a gunfighter may treat one gun separate from another.

[Captain Bill Burt]

whoops

[CodyMaverick]

Current Shooters Handbook (available and pinned at the top of this page) , page 14 - highlighted, & page 22, item #8.

 

Yes I have that, read that, even understand it. But if the rules are so clear then why is there so much debate over them? Are we just all pitching in to make sure PWB doesn't get bored or feel unneeded?

[Sergeant Duroc]

 

If they are not SASS-sanctioned, why address an inquiry here regarding application of SASS rules?

Thank you PWB- I'm not exactly sure why this inquiry would be questioned as to whether it came from a SASS-sanctioned club. This inquiry is based on SASS rules because we are a SASS-sanctioned club.

[Ace_of_Hearts]

One must not forget that the option of holstering and changing pistols after each shot is available to any shooter (other than gunfighter) should they choose to avail themselves of it.

Put that into the discussion.

[Grizzly Dave]

I reckon this is where Phantom would say....

 

 

 

OY!!!

[Sergeant Duroc]

A GF MUST engage the senario in the same manner as everyone else, unless it says shoot it any way you want!!!!

 

There is no first or second revolver,,,, it is first 5 shots and second 5 shots!!!!

 

I dare you to go to winter range or just about any other shoot and try doing it differently,,,,, you will get a bonus!!! a 10 second bonus!!!

 

this ain't rocket science folks!!!!

Thanks for the straight-forward response. When there are so many interpretations it makes me second guess myself. It has been debated just as hard on this forum as it was in a local conversation. It's concerning we all read the same manuals, but "read" something so different. That's why I want to build my capacity and confidence in the rules. That way I can "stick to my guns" (pun intended) in an argument.

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

 

Yes I have that, read that, even understand it. But if the rules are so clear then why is there so much debate over them? Are we just all pitching in to make sure PWB doesn't get bored or feel unneeded?

I do believe there are a goodly number of contrarians who would rather argue than read. "Once I've made up my mind, please do not confront me with facts". No matter your (editorial "your") opinion, you will get a penalty every place you go where the rules are understood and followed.

 

Thank you

 

CR

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

PWB may chastise me for being so naive, but I never would have believed there were so many here who refuse to accept the rules as written and explained by the person charged with clarifying them. Such staunch refusal to believe or accept any idea other than the one they started with befuddles me beyond words.

 

CR

[Santa Fe River Stan,36999L]

One must not forget that the option of holstering and changing pistols after each shot is available to any shooter (other than gunfighter) should they choose to avail themselves of it.

Put that into the discussion.

1 on each target for the first 5 rounds and 1 on each target for the second 5 rounds.

 

No different than having a dud in your first revolver.......the shooter has the OPTION of continuing to engage the targets in the correct order and then reloading a round in a pistol to finish the string.

 

Stan

[Ace_of_Hearts]

1 on each target for the first 5 rounds and 1 on each target for the second 5 rounds.

 

No different than having a dud in your first revolver.......the shooter has the OPTION of continuing to engage the targets in the correct order and then reloading a round in a pistol to finish the string.

 

Stan

"With each pistol engage each of the targets once"

There were no other instructions or clarifications.

Your contention that is "says" 1 on each target for first five rounds is incorrect.

I was merely pointing out that the two handed shooter has the option of engaging the targets in any order with any pistol as long as he engages each target once with each pistol.

One of his options to accomplish this is to shoot target 1 once with pistol A, holster, then shoot target 1 once with pistol B. He can then shoot the second target with pistol B, holster, then shoot target 2 with pistol A...... Continuing till done. Not the fastest way, but certainly an option he has available to him.

 

If the stage writer had first five shots or first pistol (this term bothers me) in mind, he/she should have written as such.

[Blastmaster]

This thread is a shining example of the potential for three total different calls and possible penalties that can and probably will be given at a match with more than one posse. First GF on Posse x double taps targets and gets no P. Second GF on Posse y double taps and gets a P. Third GF on Possy z does two seperate 5rd sweeps and life is good, other than the fraction of time it takes to do second sweep. One of the three GF'ers has the potential of gaining a 10sec advantage over the other two, or not. What a crap shoot and this will continue to happen, even though PWB and so many others have stated the rule because you see the people that refuse to believe the rules even after it is pointed out.

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

"With each pistol engage each of the targets once"

There were no other instructions or clarifications.

Your contention that is "says" 1 on each target for first five rounds is incorrect.

I was merely pointing out that the two handed shooter has the option of engaging the targets in any order with any pistol as long as he engages each target once with each pistol.

One of his options to accomplish this is to shoot target 1 once with pistol A, holster, then shoot target 1 once with pistol B. He can then shoot the second target with pistol B, holster, then shoot target 2 with pistol A...... Continuing till done. Not the fastest way, but certainly an option he has available to him.

 

If the stage writer had first five shots or first pistol (this term bothers me) in mind, he/she should have written as such.

RO2, page 11: Stage instructions that specify separate revolvers such as "first pistol/second pistol"; "left revolver/right revolver"; or "with each handgun" are considered as "1st five shots/2nd five shots" when shooting GUNFIGHTER STYLE. Also SHB in two places. Very clear rule.

[Blastmaster]

"With each pistol engage each of the targets once"

There were no other instructions or clarifications.

Your contention that is "says" 1 on each target for first five rounds is incorrect.

I was merely pointing out that the two handed shooter has the option of engaging the targets in any order with any pistol as long as he engages each target once with each pistol.

One of his options to accomplish this is to shoot target 1 once with pistol A, holster, then shoot target 1 once with pistol B. He can then shoot the second target with pistol B, holster, then shoot target 2 with pistol A...... Continuing till done. Not the fastest way, but certainly an option he has available to him.

 

If the stage writer had first five shots or first pistol (this term bothers me) in mind, he/she should have written as such.

No posse walk through to clarify? no PM or TO bothered to ask? No posse member bothered to ask?

 

I don't think I've ever read or heard all the stage descriptions for an entire match that didn't have some important information left out or some part that needed clarification for some of the stages.

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

No posse walk through to clarify? no PM or TO bothered to ask? No posse member bothered to ask?

 

I don't think I've ever read or heard all the stage descriptions for an entire match that didn't have some important information left out or some part that needed clarification for some of the stages.

Pretty clear that the stage writer wanted to allow the shooter, including gunfighters, to best determine how they wanted to engage the targets. No need to clarify or state no double taps, because that would earn a penalty the way the stage is written. Not sure why some would ignore the standard definition of how a GF string is defined.

 

Several of us have cited multiple places in the rule books where a GFer must follow the 5 shots, then 5 shots definition. Nobody has shown a rule to the contrary. If there is one, please make us aware of it. The only place I can find in the stage description to allow a double tap is from shot #5 to shot #6.

[Dick Dastardly SASS #45219]

When writing stages it is generally best to go for simplicity. Since the ONLY way I've ever shot SASS matches I've ALWAYS shot FCGF. Thru the years I've encountered lots of controversy about how I just shot a stage. Rather than argue, I went with what the match director said. Never did win that new Cadillac waiting out in the parking lot or the big flashy belt buckle. But, I've always had fun and met great friends and made new ones.

 

This stage could have easily been written better, but if I encountered it I would ask for clarification from the man in charge if my stage plan was ok. If not, I'd simply shoot my left pistol at the 1st target, my right pistol at target 5 and proceed to shoot each target in sequence. P1, P5, P2, P4, P3, P3, P4, P2, P5, P1.

 

Ain't FCGF fun?

 

DD-MDA

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

When writing stages it is generally best to go for simplicity. Since the ONLY way I've ever shot SASS matches I've ALWAYS shot FCGF. Thru the years I've encountered lots of controversy about how I just shot a stage. Rather than argue, I went with what the match director said. Never did win that new Cadillac waiting out in the parking lot or the big flashy belt buckle. But, I've always had fun and met great friends and made new ones.

 

This stage could have easily been written better, but if I encountered it I would ask for clarification from the man in charge if my stage plan was ok. If not, I'd simply shoot my left pistol at the 1st target, my right pistol at target 5 and proceed to shoot each target in sequence. P1, P5, P2, P4, P3, P3, P4, P2, P5, P1.

 

Ain't FCGF fun?

 

DD-MDA

Exactly as I would - just as the stage writer had in mind - CR

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

"With each pistol engage each of the targets once"

There were no other instructions or clarifications.

Your contention that is "says" 1 on each target for first five rounds is incorrect.

I was merely pointing out that the two handed shooter has the option of engaging the targets in any order with any pistol as long as he engages each target once with each pistol.

One of his options to accomplish this is to shoot target 1 once with pistol A, holster, then shoot target 1 once with pistol B. He can then shoot the second target with pistol B, holster, then shoot target 2 with pistol A...... Continuing till done. Not the fastest way, but certainly an option he has available to him.

 

If the stage writer had first five shots or first pistol (this term bothers me) in mind, he/she should have written as such.

While this is a bit off topic, I suppose one could shoot this stage double duelist and do exactly like you said. It would actually be some really fun practice to shoot and holster after each shot. I wouldn't try it at a big match, but a local one would be fun.

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

and you each wud have gotten a P! at least you should!

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

I stand corrected. As everything is written, Double Tap would not be acceptable. It would appear the Gunfighters option(s) are to sweep in one direction, then return and sweep in the same direction but changing leads. Or, Sweep one way or the other, then return double tipping the last

target in the first sweep to start the return sweep.

[Barry Sloe]

"Such as" are powerful words. These two words remove all possibility from any wording written in a stage that would indicate that a gunfighter may treat one gun separate from another.

You are correct and thanks for setting me straight. I had printed the latest version of the rules but had not taken the time to read through them. Now I've at least skimmed them.

 

BS

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

RO2, page 11: Stage instructions that specify separate revolvers such as "first pistol/second pistol"; "left revolver/right revolver"; or "with each handgun" are considered as "1st five shots/2nd five shots" when shooting GUNFIGHTER STYLE. Also SHB in two places. Very clear rule.

I figured I'd post it one more time, even though there are some that refuse to see it. It's a fairly simple to understand. "with each handgun" are considered as "1st five shots/2nd five shots"

 

 

and you each wud have gotten a P! at least you should!

Yep, ya still can't double tap if your shooting double duelist or two-handed and holstering each gun after each shot. Ya stll gotta shoot 5 rounds each target....then 5 rounds each target ........after this I give up

 

J R-E

[Buck D. Law, SASS #62183]

I stand corrected. As everything is written, Double Tap would not be acceptable. It would appear the Gunfighters option(s) are to sweep in one direction, then return and sweep in the same direction but changing leads. Or, Sweep one way or the other, then return double tipping the last

target in the first sweep to start the return sweep.

This stage is an excellent example of what a gunfighter COULD do that a two-handed shooter would never do. . .although it is an order available to them.

 

This how I would do it - starting with left gun:

1,5,2,4,3,3,2,4,1,5.

 

Other gunfighters might come up with an order that is a bit more efficient, but this is the kind of stage that make non gunfighters wish they were gunfighters. . .'cause the cool factor is out the roof.

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

This stage is an excellent example of what a gunfighter COULD do that a two-handed shooter would never do. . .although it is an order available to them.

 

This how I would do it - starting with left gun:

1,5,2,4,3,3,2,4,1,5.

That would be the most fun for me as well

 

CR

[Major BS Walker Regulator]

I would have shot it 1,5,2,4 3,5,1,4,2,3. But then again, I'm just like that.

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

This stage is an excellent example of what a gunfighter COULD do that a two-handed shooter would never do. . .although it is an order available to them.

 

This how I would do it - starting with left gun:

1,5,2,4,3,3,2,4,1,5.

 

Other gunfighters might come up with an order that is a bit more efficient, but this is the kind of stage that make non gunfighters wish they were gunfighters. . .'cause the cool factor is out the roof.

Unless it said no double taps, otherwise that's exactly how I would shoot it.

 

I would have shot it 1,5,2,4 3,5,1,4,2,3. But then again, I'm just like that.

If no double taps allowed, then I would shoot it like that as well.

 

and you each wud have gotten a P! at least you should!

Of course, but if I were holstering after every shot, then an extra 10 second P would not bother me at all. It might bother the rest of the posse that I was taking so long, or the the TO because he'd have to really watch for the hammers on both guns 5 times each. Yeah on second though, I think I will leave the holstering practice at home and go with Buck's method.

[Tom Bullweed]

If the writer meant 'two single-tap sweeps, no double-tap', then that is what would have been undertsood by all. The wording provided leaves some room for questions. The experienced GF shooter would know that the first five shots represents the first pistol. Lesser experienced spotters and TOs may not know the application. Gamey GF shooters might try to take advantage of their lack of knowledge.

Good post. I have never written a stage, but I have shot some stages that were not thought out for all category shooters. Many stages have shooting directions are very difficult, 2if not less, safe for GF shooters.

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

This stage is an excellent example of what a gunfighter COULD do that a two-handed shooter would never do. . .although it is an order available to them.

 

This how I would do it - starting with left gun:

1,5,2,4,3,3,2,4,1,5.

Edited, Yep. Good Luck

 

Jefro Relax-Enjoy

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

1,5,2,4,3,3,2,4,1,5. Is a double tap. It is allowed in the OP stage discription, but would be a P if it had stayed no double taps.

[Yusta B.]

How about 2,1,4,3,5,5,4,3,2,1 for a right gun lead ? (DT allowed)

[Lead Monger]

Wouldn't a GF using both guns just shoot targets 1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5 alternating the guns. I must be missing something!

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

If the writer meant 'two single-tap sweeps, no double-tap', then that is what would have been undertsood by all. The wording provided leaves some room for questions. The experienced GF shooter would know that the first five shots represents the first pistol. Lesser experienced spotters and TOs may not know the application. Gamey GF shooters might try to take advantage of their lack of knowledge.

Good post. I have never written a stage, but I have shot some stages that were not thought out for all category shooters. Many stages have shooting directions are very difficult, 2if not less, safe for GF shooters.

Part of the fun of this game is figuring things out. I do not want stages dumbed down to cover every possible way to shoot it. The stage instructions are clear, the rules are clear. Any cowpoke who would take advantage of an uneducated posse should not be playing this game. This rule is covered in the most basic of rule books, the SHB. No special training i.e. RO-1 or RO-2 is required to be made aware of it. We GFers can sort out the translation from 1st gun to first 5 shots easy enough.

 

BTW - the Shooters Handbook and both RO-1 & RO-2 are pinned at the top of this page. I encourage all to download and read at least the SHB. We should all have at least the rudimentary understanding of the game we play.

 

CR

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

Wouldn't a GF using both guns just shoot targets 1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5 alternating the guns. I must be missing something!

All the stage instructions said was one on each of 5 targets with each gun (each series of 5 shots). This would allow for a double tap on the 5th and 6th target. It can be fun to start from each end and alternate each gun to the middle and back, or all the way across. Your way would work, but then (if you didn't switch leads) you'd be crossing guns every shot on the second string. If I shot it in a left to right sweep for the first 5, then I'd double tap #5 and shoot it from right to left on the second 5.

 

Part of what makes it fun to be a Gunfighter!

 

CR