Widder, SASS #59054 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 I have been ask to help set up the criteria for a Side Match Speed SG stage. I would like my Wire Pards to share with me what THEY prefer when participating in a Side Match Speed SG event. Do you like to start with SG in hand, SG flat on table, SG on table/hands anywhere, etc..... Do you like 4 or 6? Do you like alittle movement between pairs of shots? etc..... AND, does your starting position vary depending upon whether you shoot an 87, 97 or SxS? When you share your preference, would you also let me know your SG model. I would like everyones preference whether you are one of the speedsters or just like to make a few warmup runs while at a match. Thank you ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 I have always felt the most fair way was to start with SG in hand, may be shouldered, with the off hand on the timer. Time is set for instant, shooter starts their own time. This eliminates any chance for shooter jumping the beep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Well since you asked... Setup - two tables, no more than 3-4 steps apart, with two SG targets angled to the left of the left table, and 4 SG targets angled right of the right table, start at either table. Start with SG on the table with hands on pistols or at your side, shoot what is in front of you, move to other table and shoot what is there. I shoot a side by side. I am also left handed and feel that if there is movement, you should be able to start on either end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Three pairs of knockdowns, placed so they can be shot from one position; shooter stages shotgun on table, both hands on timer, starts timer himself. ...takes enough time to identify the best shooters without becoming a footrace, no possible interference from timer operator. I shoot a side by side. Having separate competitions for side by side and 97 and lever action shotguns is ok by me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 To make it truly a measure of just shotgun speed, I'd like six knockdowns set in 3 clumps of two, different spacing between targets in each clump. Targets are spread across a 90 degree arc in front of shooter who is behind a table. Shotgun starts open and empty on table, hands flat on table not touching shotgun. Six shotgun shells on body or staged on table - shooter's choice. Shooter may not be touching shells, either. At beep (use an RO, most shooters are not used to beeping themselves to start, and it prevents the timer from getting away from the shooter), shooter engages targets in any order with six shots. No restarts for a bobble. This is measuring and rewarding perfection. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chili Pepper Pete 11917 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Personally I Like a table top start with hands in a pre determined location IE on pistols, flat on table, locked in gun belt. I believe this is the most fair starting position for all shotgun types. I also think It creates a realistic stage scenario. I like 6 better then 4 only because it forces everyone to go to their belt at least once for shells and I think that transition is important in determining the fastest shotgun shooter. Just my opinion Best regards, Chili Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Use timer beep to start. Shotguns start on table. At least 6 targets, 10 would be better. No movement, stand and deliver. No miss make ups. It is a speed shotgun side match not a movement side match. Make award(s) for double shooters and again for 97 shooters. If you want to add watch time for the total side match, suggest you add a couple of pop can throwers. Give woman and man awards for each. Have shot several major match shotgun speed side matches. Only one different had about 20 targets including moving knock down targets and several fliers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 Does anyone consider the height of the staging table in relationship to tall or short shooters? Standing at a short table for a tall person and/or standing at a tall table for a shorter person can make a big difference in 'hand positions'. And based on talking with the MD, there won't be MORE than 6 KD's, based on timely shooting amounts for those interested. ALSO, does the consistency of the target sizes matter or should all targets be the same shape and size? The MD will assure that the target distances will coincide with the distances for the main match. No tricks involved. Also, my guess is that Fastest Time of the day for each SG (87, 97, SxS) and Male/Female will be recognized. Keep those good suggestion coming. THANKS ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waimea Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 How about a category for hammered vs hammerless SXS? Waimea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 I would like to see six targets set up like this: X X X X X X _______ Shooter starts hands on table not touching shotgun or ammo. ATB knockdown all six, no makeups, no restarts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mink Shoals Bandit, #49388 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 As others have probably said, any side match, what ever position,let the shooter start the timer with one hand... A lot more fair and accurate...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Most Wanted Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Bill hit on something . No restarts and no make ups . Also when speed SG has more than 4 targets the line grows too long . As long as you break it into SXS and pump the set up isn't as important . But I prefer in hand , stand and deliver (only for speed SG) in a match I hate it that way . AND ALWAYS shoot as many times as you want and fastest time counts . I can never understand calling your run or first run etc. . This is an all out speed competition where the targets should be VERY hitable and the winning time should blow our mind . Thanks for asking . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Three pairs of knockdowns, placed so they can be shot from one position; shooter stages shotgun on table, both hands on timer, starts timer himself. ...takes enough time to identify the best shooters without becoming a footrace, no possible interference from timer operator. I shoot a side by side. Having separate competitions for side by side and 97 and lever action shotguns is ok by me. What J-Bar said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twelve mile REB Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Hands on table isn't the best start for everyone body type dictates how well that works. Gun in hands (both) gives a fair start, six knock downs at least, eight would be better and ten better still. The more a person goes to their belt and the more fodder they are stoking into their long gun the more chance of a fumble. That does tilt the table toward the smooth and quick rather than the all out blaze of speed. If your looking for just the fastest, fast twitch muscles then just one shot no target. I shoot a 97 mostly but have and shoot a double as well. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ T. Sites Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Does anyone consider the height of the staging table in relationship to tall or short shooters? Standing at a short table for a tall person and/or standing at a tall table for a shorter person can make a big difference in 'hand positions'. And based on talking with the MD, there won't be MORE than 6 KD's, based on timely shooting amounts for those interested. ALSO, does the consistency of the target sizes matter or should all targets be the same shape and size? The MD will assure that the target distances will coincide with the distances for the main match. No tricks involved. Also, my guess is that Fastest Time of the day for each SG (87, 97, SxS) and Male/Female will be recognized. Keep those good suggestion coming. THANKS ..........Widder I'm 6'5" it's easier for a tall person to go to short table than a short person going to a tall table Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Arrow Hombre Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Six targets. Shooter starts gun in hands. KD targets any order. Nothing wrong with a restart. Separate set ups for SXS and contraptions (97 & 87) Let shooters run it as many times as they desire. Of course they go to the back of the line. Calling your run sucks rope. Fastest time should win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prestidigitator Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 well the clump of two, then another clump of two is dictated toward a double shooter IMHP. Put all four together or spread all four apart. Start port arms. Fairest way i can see it. going from a table will be different for everybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 well the clump of two, then another clump of two is dictated toward a double shooter IMHP. Put all four together or spread all four apart. Start port arms. Fairest way i can see it. going from a table will be different for everybody. If you have different awards for 97s and doubles there is no advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major E A Sterner #12916 Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 At Mule Camp 2000(I think) they gave awards for I won it (fastest first time shot) and I bought it(Fastest time shot for repeat shooters) That way you will have people coming back to try to beat their friends.Also have seperate catagories for SxS,Pump & lever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Big Tree Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 6 - 8 targets, shells on body, start SG in hand, no restarts must make up missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purly SASS # 57438 Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Gun on table, hands at low surrender, or port arms. 6 knock downs , different categories for different guns, shoot all day. Fastest clean time wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 What ever you do have help. Standing in line for 8-10 shooters is painful personally I lose my desire to do it once I get there (my ADD kicking in). We don't charge for side matches and they are unlimited. You are only limited by how much ammo you have. Don't care oh much it takes you because if you get it done it means you DO have the skill. Really despise "call your run". 4 shots works for me but 6 seperates the men from the boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 What do you mean by ' call your run?' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidekick Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Call your run is where you can shoot as much as you want to but you only get one run for score. You decide when that is and when you do you own that run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge'm All Duncan, SASS#67320 Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 6 targets equally spread out. Shotgun in BOTH hands. Shoot all ya want FASTEST TIME WINS. You need more than one person working at a time. Resetting will wear you out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Call your run is where you can shoot as much as you want to but you only get one run for score. You decide when that is and when you do you own that run. Thanks, never heard it in those terms. Not a fan of that either. Lots of folks wanting the shooter to start the timer, I understand the reasoning. Timer on the table or what? Also, depending on the shoot you may have folks shooting side matches who have never touched a timer. True it ain't a big deal to school them, 'touch this button' but it might be unfamiliar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 The reason I am a fan of the shooter starting the timer is because it eliminates creep toward shells, hands off table before beeper, etc. When an event like this comes down to thousandths of a second, it matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 I wouldn't like "call your run" either...at most of the shoots I've been to, it's first run for score. Then you can shoot it again all you want for practice or peace of mind or whatever, but it's the first run that counts for competition. It's just another way to identify those who shoot fast and in control. It would also reduce waiting lines. I've never encountered extra fees for side matches or additional runs after the first one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Most Wanted Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 I wouldn't like "call your run" either...at most of the shoots I've been to, it's first run for score. Then you can shoot it again all you want for practice or peace of mind or whatever, but it's the first run that counts for competition. It's just another way to identify those who shoot fast and in control. It would also reduce waiting lines. I've never encountered extra fees for side matches or additional runs after the first one. I don't like first run ether. It's speed SG Not speed and control SG. We have a whole match for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 I don't like first run ether. It's speed SG Not speed and control SG. We have a whole match for that. Making the choice between the two formats is why Match Directors earn big bucks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted May 1, 2015 Author Share Posted May 1, 2015 Making the choice between the two formats is why Match Directors earn big bucks!! and don't forget ALL the $$$ I'm gona make helping out with a Side Match event... ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 The reason I am a fan of the shooter starting the timer is because it eliminates creep toward shells, hands off table before beeper, etc. When an event like this comes down to thousandths of a second, it matters. Then have three timers AND declare up front that letting timer hit the ground is a DQ, because you will have a shooter or several drop the timer hard enough to bounce. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keystone, SASS # 47578 Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Well, I'm a fan of 6 targets evenly spaced & shoot as many times as you like. No, "I won it" or "I bought it". Let the shooter choose their staring position but not touching shotshells. It's mighty interesting near the end of the day to watch competitors trying up to the last second to get in a winning time. I've seen folks checking all the speed events to see if their time was good and jump in for another run if not. Hasta Luego, Keystone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Earp SASS#60034 Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 No movement please!!! It's a shooting contest, not a sprinting contest. I saw one of the fastest shotgun shooters at a match unable to run ten feet between each of 3 sets of targets and lose to a much slower shooter who was 40 years younger but could run like a rabbit. Also your best time should count. When you travel 1100 miles with all of the confidence in the world in your shooting skills and then you fumble a shotgun shell on your first run, the only one that counts, you're history. Besides if only the first run counts you don't have much incentive to shoot after the first 30 minutes when you've shot all of the side matches once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your Nemesis Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Six targets unevenly spaced. Start in hand. We are looking for the fastest time so shoot all ya want. but after one round must go to end of line. Shot one match once that had first attempt free all others were a buck a piece. That was fun to and the club made a few bucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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