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Reshoots at monthly matches


Deuce Stevens SASS#55996

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We allow 1 reshoot per match for ammo/gun malfunctions. I tried to get our club to eliminate ammo/gun reshoots and shoot by SASS rules but got voted down. I don't mind giving new shooters a reshoot but not for experienced shooters. Depending on how many reshoots a top shooter gets could greatly alter the end of the year awards.

 

…Too Tall...

I think this is a common misconception. SASS rules do not prohibit reshoots for club level matches. SHB page 23 says:

"SASS matches above the club level are “no alibi” matches."

 

Allowing reshoots at the club level is within SASS rules.

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Simple question. Do you allow mechanical and ammo related reshoots at your monthly matches? If so do you set a limit per shooter? The goal of this thread is just to gather info. Not to debate whether it's right or wrong. But I doubt that's not gonna happen.LOL

No reshoots allowed for mechanical or ammo failures at any monthly shoot I've attended including High Sierra Drifters, The Outlaws, California Rangers, Murieta Posse, The Shady Ladies, River City Regulators, Two Rivers Posse and Richmond Regulators.

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IF it is going to be done as some are One Per Match.

 

It SOULD BE announced EVERY TIME at the safety meeting.

 

That way you don't have one posse doing it and another not.

 

Otherwise. It is just not fair.

 

Sure. Monthly may be just a monthly practice match for some of us.

 

But could be the biggest match that others go to all year.

I agree 100%

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I like the idea, and was responsible for at least one club doing it.

 

however, I think if someone takes a reshoot for ammo or other gun problems that shooter should be removed from the overall scoring...Still get your time, but separate from the others...

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Simple answer Deuce - local clubs in the area here at a regular monthly allow one reshoot for a mechanical or ammo failure. New shooters get a little more slack!

 

Add on - it is announced at the safety meeting to all shooters. No reshoots allowed if a Cadillac is on the line!

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Our club established a written policy last yr-gun jams and malfunctions only, one per match, misses and safety penalties before the malfunction carry over. New shooters may get more at the discretion of the match director.

Of course no Cowboy shooter would ever do this but one of our board members used to shoot professionally and at some venues where reshoots were allowed and misses didn't carry over, shooters learned how to make their guns jam when they were having a bad run-thus getting sort of a "cheater" reshoot.

The thrust of our club is for learning and training for bigger matches and time isn't a constraint as it is at a big match so a limited reshoot policy made sense to most of us but it did become important to make it a written policy to limit the "why did he get a reshoot and not me" kind of questions.

 

Doc

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Nope not at any clubs I go to..SASS rules apply..however new shooters are sometimes given the opportunity to 'have a go again '

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Reshoots: YES.....based on gun/ammo malfunction

 

ONE per match

 

 

 

..........Widder

+1

that's what we do at Firelands Peacemakers

 

Rye

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Shortgrass Rangers allows reshoots for ammo and firearm malfunctions. No limits are set. We've never had an issue with people attempting to take advantage of this to better their score, etc. Primary reason for the reshoots is we are all just trying to have a good time - and there's no race car for a prize at the end of the day.

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To expand, most of the clubs in central and southern Ohio follow this rule at monthlies for ammo or mechanical problems only. A brain fart doesn't qualify. The rule is always announced at the safety meeting and evenly applied. As Dutch said, one per stage and two per match limits.

 

Wild Bunch is different, once a round has gone down range "no alibi."

Something I had forgotten to mention, at most of the clubs that allow the " courtesy reshoot," penalties will carry over. If a shooter had a safety penalty or a procedural, that will be assessed on the reshoot run even if he/she shoots clean. Misses also carry over in the sense that one cannot improve on misses. For example, if a shooter has two misses before the gun/ammo problem, he/she will have at least two misses on the reshoot. If, on the reshoot the shooter is clean or has one or two misses, two misses are scored. If they have three misses on the reshoot, they are scored three misses. Misses carrying over are only for fired rounds, if the rifle jams with rounds still in the magazine, the unfired rounds are not counted as misses on the reshoot. On the other hand, safety violations are cumulative, so if one has a minor safety on the aborted run and another minor safety on the reshoot, both are scored.

 

I know of at least one club that allows a "clean" reshoot for a gun/ammo problem except for safety penalties which always carry over.

 

Again, these are well established rules at the various clubs that allow reshoots, are announced at the safety meeting and applied consistently on every posse with no subjective judgment calls and the system works well.

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i do not believe I see it as often as years ago, but then I do not shoot as much either. For a monthly, i like it, especially for newbies, but believe the penalty should be to be eliminated from "winning" (or take a DNF/SDQ time for the stage) thus they realize the magnitude of "what can happen". Being able to continue allows the shooter the needed practice/fun/experience that they can for but learns a lesson also. As mentioned, policy should be understood by ALL posse leaders, and to specifications of the "start over"...ammo, gun malfunction, squib, and/or all.

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We do at our club for monthly shoots. We haven't seen any abuse and thus we don't have a limit. As others have said, the monthly is more of a training and fun experience....with the understanding you don't get a reshoot at state and above for ammo or mechanical issues.

 

KK

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...It SOULD BE announced EVERY TIME at the safety meeting....Otherwise. It is just not fair....

 

Fair is where you buy cotton candy. :)

 

I figure local matches are where a cowboy can learn, try something different and not be soooo serious.

 

To say only one reshoot per (whatever) per (whatever) takes out the common sense. Like a school's zero tolerance for fire arms, kid suspend because he bit his pop tart into the shape of a gun, no common sense in that.

 

Indiana Slick's doctor told him that there wasn't anything more they could do for his bone cancer. And being close to 80 year old his reloading skills and memory weren't as sharp as they once were. And being a proud man he had difficultly accepting the use of other cowpokes ammo. I remember one stage posse gave him 3 reshoots. Posse figured it was the "Cowboy Way".

 

Then there was the Cowpoke that wanted a start over because he want the rifle moved over 1/32" of an inch. Then another restart because he hadn't anticipated the buzzer correctly (wasn't ready). When he had a slight hiccup loading his shotgun it must have been the look in my eye and me yelling "Next Shooter!" that caused him to stop asking for a reshoot. Just use some not so common common sense!

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Fair is where you buy cotton candy. :)

 

I figure local matches are where a cowboy can learn, try something different and not be soooo serious.

 

To say only one reshoot per (whatever) per (whatever) takes out the common sense. Like a school's zero tolerance for fire arms, kid suspend because he bit his pop tart into the shape of a gun, no common sense in that.

 

Indiana Slick's doctor told him that there wasn't anything more they could do for his bone cancer. And being close to 80 year old his reloading skills and memory weren't as sharp as they once were. And being a proud man he had difficultly accepting the use of other cowpokes ammo. I remember one stage posse gave him 3 reshoots. Posse figured it was the "Cowboy Way".

 

Then there was the Cowpoke that wanted a start over because he want the rifle moved over 1/32" of an inch. Then another restart because he hadn't anticipated the buzzer correctly (wasn't ready). When he had a slight hiccup loading his shotgun it must have been the look in my eye and me yelling "Next Shooter!" that caused him to stop asking for a reshoot. Just use some not so common common sense!

MD-to compare allowing one reshoot per match to a child's pop tart seems more than a little simplistic to me. To allow a shooter as many reshoots as he or she wants would cheapen the match award he or she eventually won, not to mention the cries of "unfair" by the rest of the gang. There is a reason for the difference between the "won it" and "bought it" side match awards at some bigger shoots. (I don't have a problem with the extra consideration you give your handicapped shooter)

I had a hard time knowing if you were talking about restarts or reshoots for your "cowpoke" but it didn't take you long to say enough is enough even though you seem to champion all the reshoots you want.

By your number I see you have been in this game far longer than I and we both know there are folks out there who would take advantage of your kind of policy (note your cowpoke). Plus you would be doing him a serious disservice if he ever went to a no alibi match.

It is a big difference in my opinion to save someone's match who had a gun break vs someone who decided he should get to shoot over cause his gun was 1/32" from where he thought it should be.

One thing you are 100% right about is that common sense is not very common.

Good Shooting

Doc

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All the clubs I've shot at in Ohio have offered re-shoots for their monthly shoots. With this being only a game and/or sport that we love to participate in I appreciate seeing the re-shoots given to others for firearm or ammo failures, and that with limitations of course. In 10+ years of shooting I've only had to take 1 re-shoot that I recall, but by taking the re-shoot I didn't feel like I was cheating someone out of a Cadillac, and we are supposed to be having fun aren't we? At our club they don't always specify whether a re-shoot is given or not. I've seen it go both ways (given & not given) and the look on the faces of the men and/or ladies not given a re-shoot for a gun or ammo malfunction is definitely not a look of "fun" :( . When I'm running the timer at our club I will give one re-shoot per stage and a limit of 2 total per match per shooter. The look on the faces of the shooters is priceless when they know their day is not lost or ruined due to a malfunction and that smile given back makes my day also :D . Again aren't we supposed to be having fun. One last thought. With all things being fair, I don't see where someone given a re-shoot, being a top shooter or the middle of the pack shooter, should be taken out of the "list" or penalized for a re-shoot. I have placed only seconds, or fractions thereof, behind shooters given a re-shoot and have never felt "slighted". The love of shooting this sport is what really counts :)

 

Badfinger Bodene

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Heee Haaa "Doots"..Good Post..You know that most of the time are laughing and pokeing fun at each other.. :P and when YOU brake a fireing pin its alot funnier than a new shooter.. :D But you both deserve a reshoot.. ;) There is no reason to give it to one and not the other.. <_< There is no big deal here..They don't give the Bass Boat away at the monthly :unsure:

 

Heeee Haaaa Crazy Mingo :wacko::wacko::FlagAm:

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Something I had forgotten to mention, at most of the clubs that allow the " courtesy reshoot," penalties will carry over. If a shooter had a safety penalty or a procedural, that will be assessed on the reshoot run even if he/she shoots clean. Misses also carry over in the sense that one cannot improve on misses. For example, if a shooter has two misses before the gun/ammo problem, he/she will have at least two misses on the reshoot. If, on the reshoot the shooter is clean or has one or two misses, two misses are scored. If they have three misses on the reshoot, they are scored three misses. Misses carrying over are only for fired rounds, if the rifle jams with rounds still in the magazine, the unfired rounds are not counted as misses on the reshoot. On the other hand, safety violations are cumulative, so if one has a minor safety on the aborted run and another minor safety on the reshoot, both are scored.

 

I know of at least one club that allows a "clean" reshoot for a gun/ammo problem except for safety penalties which always carry over.

 

Again, these are well established rules at the various clubs that allow reshoots, are announced at the safety meeting and applied consistently on every posse with no subjective judgment calls and the system works well.

For those that allow reshoots, this makes a lot of sense.

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Nope. Once the round has gone down range, it's yours.

New shooters usually are only new to SASS not guns and should know how they work, especially if your club has a mandatory new shooter orientation like ours does.

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Heee Haaa..; "Doots" One thing I noticed there are a lot of HARD-ASS cowboys out there :huh: ..They probley don't smile during the match either.. :P

 

Heeee Haaaa Crazy Mingo :wacko::wacko::FlagAm:

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yes I have seen it

shooters git used to reshoots at local matches

 

they finial spend $$$$ to attend a travel away shoot or larger annual shoot

they often times come home hinny hurt, that they did not get what they were used to back home

 

true fact for many

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I would have no issue with a reshoot for no score if they had mechanical/ammo problems. Otherwise, a mulligan stick would work like at the Arizona Yavapai Rangers. There you get one do-over for any reason using the official stick. Palo Verde likes to sell counterfeits, so beware. :lol:

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Heee Haaa..; "Doots" One thing I noticed there are a lot of HARD-ASS cowboys out there :huh: ..They probley don't smile during the match either.. :P

 

Heeee Haaaa Crazy Mingo :wacko::wacko::FlagAm:

LOL!

 

Thanks for asking the question Deuce. The responses have been interesting.

 

KQ

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We usually allow reshoots although some shooters take them and some don't . If a shooter continues with problems someone offers them a gun to barrow . we try to help all thats what keeps them coming back.

Woodfox :)

 

+1 A lot of shooter drive a long distance and the more they shoot, the more they come back. Besides, a monthly match is where some shooters can only practice. Some take the reshoot and some don't as Woodfox said. A monthly shoot is a time where we mentor or teach new shooters. If they make a mistake, lets give them a chance to correct it or help them get better at playing our game. This way they will stay longer at playing this game and they will keep coming back. IMO.

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We always give reshoots for mechanical failures. I think most people would give a reshoot for a brain fade also. If a shooter ever took a reshoot for a brain fade he had better be prepared for it to turn up on his tomb stone.

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yes I have seen it

shooters git used to reshoots at local matches

 

they finial spend $$$$ to attend a travel away shoot or larger annual shoot

they often times come home hinny hurt, that they did not get what they were used to back home

 

true fact for many

I've seen this scenario written about on the wire more times than I can count. I've just never seen it really happen at a match. EVERY shooter I know can tell the difference between a monthly match and a no alibi state match.

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In the few years I've been doing this, I have done 3 reshoots. All three were at state level shoots.

 

In all three cases, I did not ask for the reshoot, but was offered it. One was for an RO error, one was for a gun malfunction that was the first gun used in the stage, and the third was because my shotgun fell apart after the first shot. (Don't ask! :))

 

In all three cases. something about the goof up was apparently deemed not to be my fault. I remember the RO talking to the spotters about something, and then a reshoot being offered. All three times I surprised, but since it was offered, I took it.

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R O error - ok

Gun problem with no rounds down range (restart) - ok

Shotgun fell apart after shot fired (state level) - nope

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