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What's the rule


Jimmy Reb, SASS #54804

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RO3 = Common Sense

 

Prior postings indicate that you are not missing it. ^_^

 

...but SOME folks are.

Exactly. If I have a shooter at a local run and a gun falls out, hits the but of a rifle and it falls off a table or something like that I would have to consider the conditions. Plus their demeanor and if he (or she) isn't rattled or unsafe but just a accident. If the person is un-safe before or because of the incident then.........of course not. But if it was just a slip and they handle it well I would have no problem letting them finish the match (for no score).

 

On incident I re-call there was a high table that pulled pistol from a holster and it wasn't something I wanted to send a guy home that drove 2 1/2 hrs to shoot a local match.

 

Now if he would have sweep the spotters or be reckless then I would have no issue making the right call.

 

IMHO don't Barney Fife this stuff folks and try to make a "one size fits all rule"........use your experience and common sense. Now a annual or up is different IMO because the rules clearly state they are no alibi matches and you don't want to muddy the water there.......but a local? C'mon.

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I'll raise you 2¢ and say that the word is self-defining...no further notation needed.

...& I wouldn't want to be the one responsible for the loss of a shooting venue in event of an accident under those circumstances...let alone someone getting injured.

 

PWB

No arguement from me. My position is hang 'em up and help out.

 

BS

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I'll raise you 2¢ and say that the word is self-defining...no further notation needed.

...& I wouldn't want to be the one responsible for the loss of a shooting venue in event of an accident under those circumstances...let alone someone getting injured.

 

PWB

+1 If a loaded firearm is dropped at any of our events, they put them away, they usually stay and help with the posse duties. Also if you allow to continue even without a score, you need to ask yourself what message are you sending to everyone else.

 

Charlie

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In the SASS Handbook, ROI and ROII manuals there is no definition of the term "Match Disqualification".

Maybe the ROC should look into defining a MDQ i.e. for Safety Violations the shooter is not allowed to shoot in the portion of the match where the MDQ was awarded.

For non safety reasons i.e. progressive penalties the shooter may continue shooting, at the Match Directors discretion without being scored.

that is the way that I have understood it for many-many years

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In the SASS Handbook, ROI and ROII manuals there is no definition of the term "Match Disqualification".

Maybe the ROC should look into defining a MDQ i.e. for Safety Violations the shooter is not allowed to shoot in the portion of the match where the MDQ was awarded.

For non safety reasons i.e. progressive penalties the shooter may continue shooting, at the Match Directors discretion without being scored.

OK, on a 2 day match, on the second day, some shooters just want to shoot the "cowboy guns" they show up in baseball caps, t shirts, jeans and running shoes. First stage is a stage DQ and then progressive stages lead to a MDQ. But, the match director says they've paid their money so they can continue without a score. Is that what you had in mind?

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I remember the MDQ forward rule and the death of side matches. so now a MDQ on Thursday means you can still shoot on Friday unless Thursday is a main match day and in that case you can not shoot on Friday because the ins liability lawyers care what the schedule of events defines???? ya that's common sense.

CC

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And as it was written, the sound of a huge, building, monumental collective "DUUUUUUUHHHHHH" was heard throughout the land of the cowboy.

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Some of us are starting to sound like liberals trying to reinterpete the rules to to fit their cause. If your going to pull apart every written rule ( like our sass rules or the U.S. constitution ) letter by letter looking for ways around the true way it was meant to be understood, you are more interested in forwarding your own agenda than playing by those same written rules. It's sad to say but this behavior has become more prevalent these days. :(:(:(

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2 day, 10 stage match. Match Organizers were really desperate and made me a Posse Leader!

 

First day last stage at the loading table. I missed my holster and dropped the loaded pistol.

 

MDQ

 

Second day I came and continued with my Posse Leader duties. From some of the posts I did wrong. :(

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Some of us are starting to sound like liberals trying to reinterpete the rules to to fit their cause. If your going to pull apart every written rule ( like our sass rules or the U.S. constitution ) letter by letter looking for ways around the true way it was meant to be understood, you are more interested in forwarding your own agenda than playing by those same written rules. It's sad to say but this behavior has become more prevalent these days. :(:(:(

 

+ 1

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Common = that which is mundane, everyday, seen most often;

Sense = intelligence, reason.

 

So... putting those two words together, usually means "SHEER STUPIDITY"!

 

I think the phrase most of you are looking for is, "UNcommon GOOD Sense"! Letting a shooter that has incurred a safety related Match Disqualification continue to shoot (whether or not for score), falls into the "Common Sense" defined above...

 

Abanaki, I think you have the gist of the issue interpreted correctly.

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Personally I have always thought the "liability" angle in this argument was bogus.

 

If a shooter gets a MDQ TODAY folks here are saying a subsequent incident involving that person TODAY would cause the sky to fall.

 

If that same shooter had a MDQ LAST WEEKEND, yet was allowed to shoot TODAY.. how can that not ALSO be a liability problem?

 

Being given a MDQ doesn't send a shooter off to any retraining courses after all.... If there were liability issues surely they would exist JUST as much for anyone who had (pretty much) EVER had a MDQ!

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Personally I have always thought the "liability" angle in this argument was bogus.

 

 

 

Being given a MDQ doesn't send a shooter off to any retraining courses after all.... If there were liability issues surely they would exist JUST as much for anyone who had (pretty much) EVER had a MDQ!

I have to agree

but with that being said

a judgement calls needs to be made

was it temporary heat stroke

was it a shooter off their meds

was it a person temporarely low on (food - suger - water)

was it?

in some cases they could or would be fine to shoot without a score

in some cases perhaps they would not be fine to shoot without a score

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This horse is dead. Refer to PWBs last post. The shooter is done shooting for the match. Nothing further needs to be stated.

Most shooters are good guys/gals. Dropped loaded weapons are accidental. Doesn't matter. Pack up the hardware and decide if you're going home or staying and helping out.

 

 

BS

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Personally I have always thought the "liability" angle in this argument was bogus.

 

If a shooter gets a MDQ TODAY folks here are saying a subsequent incident involving that person TODAY would cause the sky to fall.

 

If that same shooter had a MDQ LAST WEEKEND, yet was allowed to shoot TODAY.. how can that not ALSO be a liability problem?

 

Being given a MDQ doesn't send a shooter off to any retraining courses after all.... If there were liability issues surely they would exist JUST as much for anyone who had (pretty much) EVER had a MDQ!

 

 

I have to agree

but with that being said

a judgement calls needs to be made

was it temporary heat stroke

was it a shooter off their meds

was it a person temporarely low on (food - suger - water)

was it?

in some cases they could or would be fine to shoot without a score

in some cases perhaps they would not be fine to shoot without a score

its nice to know some people and especially some I respect can see these points as well.

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Final word from the combined WB/ROC:

 

 

A MDQ means YOU ARE DONE SHOOTING!!!

 

My French is terrible but I think this means:

 

"Fini Waloo, Tootsweet!" (or atleast that is how I learned it in Morocco.)

 

 

:D:D:D

 

 

..........Widder

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I have to agree

but with that being said

a judgement calls needs to be made

was it temporary heat stroke

was it a shooter off their meds

was it a person temporarely low on (food - suger - water)

was it?

in some cases they could or would be fine to shoot without a score

in some cases perhaps they would not be fine to shoot without a score

 

Hey Madd one.

 

You make a good point. But I think the 'cast in concrete' rule/guideline that has been established for this MDQ also helps US in that we don't have to play doctor or phychologist on Saturday morning.

 

No doubt that there are some circumstances that would make us not want to award a MDQ and there are some circumstances that we are glad the MDQ is warranted (like total carelessness).

 

But because the Rule Makers have made this a 'cut n dry' rule, it sure makes it unnecessary for all the rest of us to have to deal with it and have to lawyer it out in conversations during a match.

 

Have yeself a good day.

 

 

..........Widder

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Hey Madd one.

 

You make a good point. But I think the 'cast in concrete' rule/guideline that has been established for this MDQ also helps US in that we don't have to play doctor or phychologist on Saturday morning.

 

When there isn't a match happening, it's kind of fun to stay home and play doctor on Saturday morning. :ph34r:;)

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REF: RO3 p.1

I've known about its existence for over a year. Snakebite let it slip that it existed. After months of researching the Internet I obtained a bootleg copy that I found on a server in Utah. I have made many copies and if you stop by the house and give the password Geronimo I will give you a copy

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As the MD at our club's annual match who received an MDQ - cowboy up! - put the guns away and continue to contribute your effort to make everyone have a good cowboy experience! (This was difficult for me at first - but the right thing to do - and it ended up being the best match we had put on to date.)

It also has made me be more careful in handling my weapons.

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I've always been under the impression that MDQ meant put the guns away and do your duties as a posse member, however, some posters wanted to know what the listed penalty for MDQ was. MSV was listed, 10 sec, Miss was listed 5 sec, Procedural was listed 10 sec.

Now that there is a defintive word for MDQ, put the guns away, everyone can go back to playing cowboy.

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Even now that the all-wise, all-knowing, Oracle of SASS (PWB) may have spoken, it has been my experience that that alone does not insure that the beating of the dead-horse will not continue.

 

Just sayin'.

 

EC

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My French is terrible but I think this means:

 

"Fini Waloo, Tootsweet!" (or atleast that is how I learned it in Morocco.)

 

 

:D:D:D

 

 

..........Widder

Widder....I didn't know you speaked furrin' tongues! :lol:

En français it would be "toute de suite" but most folks just say "toute suite" and it is pronounced toot sweet. I never knowed toots to smell sweet but that's just me :D :D :D

Kajun

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Hey Madd one.

 

You make a good point. Bu

 

Have yeself a good day.

 

 

..........Widder

I agree with the rule as stated, now that it has been made so clear

"no way hose-A"

notta-nope-completed-ended-through with the shootin aspect

 

timeing, brass picking, story tellin, counting, un-loading table duties, pot luck supper

next day, more of the same, being with friends will still make a shoot worth the travel

after all, your totall shooting time for the match is a very low percentage of the time given for the complete match experience

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Personally I have always thought the "liability" angle in this argument was bogus.

 

If a shooter gets a MDQ TODAY folks here are saying a subsequent incident involving that person TODAY would cause the sky to fall.

 

If that same shooter had a MDQ LAST WEEKEND, yet was allowed to shoot TODAY.. how can that not ALSO be a liability problem?

 

Being given a MDQ doesn't send a shooter off to any retraining courses after all.... If there were liability issues surely they would exist JUST as much for anyone who had (pretty much) EVER had a MDQ!

My dear fellow, Honorable Constable Nelson, you will find yourself subject to a quite different definition of "liability" in the USA than Australia. Here we have a certain tyranny when lawyer smells an opportunity for a pay day. In the USA there is no need for common sense or even a straight forward interpretation of the law.

 

Here there is only a perceived or actual victim who claims actual or perceived damages; an insurance company and a well- seasoned lawyer who is willing to argue either side at any time for a contingency based award. The insurance company most often takes one look at it; makes a determination of whether it's more or less expensive to fight it and then writes the check whether it's right, wrong or absolute lunacy.

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I guess my question is:

Was the Range Operator part of the SASS club or someone outside the club structure??

 

If he was outside the club structure, why was he allowed by the club to make decisions for the SASS club using the range, thereby affecting how the match is run under SASS rules?

 

In my mind, that's a "stand your ground" issue and the Range Operator should be told politely to disengage himself from club business. Seems like a big deal to me. If the shooter insisted upon shooting the second day, based on the Range Operator's approval, and the Range Operator refused to budge, the shooter should have been cut off at the knees by refunding his match fee and told to leave; that he was no longer entered in the match. The Range Operator should have been told that he had gone too far.

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I did not ask this question to start an argument. I just wanted to know the policy(rule) so that I would not have to pretend to be a lawyer or a doctor in the future.

Thank you to all that have replied.

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