Would you consider the cost, before doing something to save someone's life?

[Alpo]

EpiPen. I just looked them up. Brand name, $690. Generic's about half that, but that's still 350 bucks.

 

TV show. Horse auction, and the girl is talking to the guy outside of the barn. She asked why he was not inside at the auction and he said that apparently he was allergic to horses. She said she knew the feeling - she was allergic to bees and that's why she carried an EpiPen. About then someone walks by leading a horse, and the horse slaps the man in the face with his tail. And the man drops like a rock. The girl immediately drops down beside him and pulls her EpiPen out of her purse and jabs him in the leg and saves his life. Yay.

 

Another TV show. They're on an airplane, and the contract killer has put peanut dust on the pillow of his victim, and she's going into anaphylactic shock. Quick, get the EpiPen out of the first aid kit on the plane wall. Oh no! It's not there!! And a passenger reaches out his hand and says, "Here, use mine". Saved her life too. Yay again.

 

In a situation like that, would you consider the cost of that before you offered it?

 

I know we would all like to think we wouldn't. That you would immediately do what you need to do to save that poor person's life. But do you think you would think of the cost first? Even if you went ahead and did it, would you think of the cost?

[Pb Mark]

Stick with the pen first, then depending on the circumstances, check their tennis shoes for payback cash second.

[Dutch Coroner]

By cost, I thought you were meaning the possible ramifications of your actions, not the actual cost of the epipen.  Having carried epipens for almost 20 years now, my son has severe allergies, no, I wouldn’t think about it for a second.

[Michigan Slim]

Nope. Jab them. 

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

Jab first, think later

[Pat Riot]

I don’t need an epipen so I don’t own one. Neither does my wife. 
 

If one is allergic to horses why would one go to where horses are?

I know, because they are stupid, greedy or hoping to get laid. Those are the only 3 reasons I can think of. 
“Help, a horse tail hit me in the face. I am allergic! I am going to die!”

”Do you prefer walnut, teak, pine or steel?”

“Why?”

”Your coffin. What would you like to be buried in?”

 

My sister in law is allergic to a multitude of things. She never carries an epipen but has 3 at home. I asked her the above question a few months ago.

She carries one now. 
 

My nephew and  wife and kids were at our house. One of the kids I highly allergic to bee stings. My niece in law (is that a term) asked my wife if we had an epipen in the house. We don’t. She got her panties twisted about it. I told her “If you care this much about it why are you not bringing an epipen with you?”

Her response: “They’re expensive!”

I offered to drive her home to get one. She declined. 
Her son lived another day as he didn’t get stung. 
Later my wife said “We should probably get an epipen, just in case.”

I told her to look up the cost and then figure out where the money is coming from. 
We don’t have an epipen at our house. 
 

 

[Alpo]

It's not just the EpiPen. That was something I thought of because it's expensive.

 

But let's say you're hunting with your 600 nitro or something else that has $25 a round ammunition. And you see someone get attacked by a cat. Whether this is Arizona and it's a mountain lion, or Rhodesia and it's a leopard or the Amazon and it's a Jaguar. Something that could easily be taken down with a 243, but you don't have a 243. You've got your $25 a round huge bore rifle. I'm pretty sure I would shoot the cat without considering the cost of that bullet.

 

Or you are out on the pier with your best girl, wearing your brand new $2,000 tailor made suit, and you see someone drowning in the bay. Would you dive in and save him without considering the cost of that silk suit you're ruining? Not even for a moment? Not even as you're going over the side (at least I should have taken the jacket off)?

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

If I had one someone would get all bent out of shape because “it’s expired”.

[Cypress Sun]

1 minute ago, Pat Riot said:

 

If one is allergic to horses why would one go to where horses are?

I know, because they are stupid, greedy or hoping to get laid. Those are the only 3 reasons I can think of.  
 

 

 

Go to a horse stable to get laid? Must be a perverted kind of stud farm!

 

Neither me or my gal need an Epipen, so we don't have them on hand.

 

If I did have one, I would not hesitate to administer the shot*.

 

* = My ex-boss had carried and Epipen for wasps/bee/etc stings. He might have been an exception to life saving efforts...or I'd at least ask for a HEALTHY raise before hand.

[Cypress Sun]

4 minutes ago, Alpo said:

It's not just the EpiPen. That was something I thought of because it's expensive.

 

But let's say you're hunting with your 600 nitro or something else that has $25 a round ammunition. And you see someone get attacked by a cat. Whether this is Arizona and it's a mountain lion, or Rhodesia and it's a leopard or the Amazon and it's a Jaguar. Something that could easily be taken down with a 243, but you don't have a 243. You've got your $25 a round huge bore rifle. I'm pretty sure I would shoot the cat without considering the cost of that bullet.

 

Or you are out on the pier with your best girl, wearing your brand new $2,000 tailor made suit, and you see someone drowning in the bay. Would you dive in and save him without considering the cost of that silk suit you're ruining? Not even for a moment? Not even as you're going over the side (at least I should have taken the jacket off)?

 

In the first scenario - yes, I'd shoot without hesitation.

 

2nd scenario - No, Although I'm not a bad swimmer, I'm not a life guard type swimmer. A drowning person WILL drown the person trying to save them in an attempt to save themselves. I will look for a boat of some kind or a flotation device/rope to throw to them.

[Rip Snorter]

If hyperthetical were a word!

[Smuteye John SASS#24774]

4 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:

* = My ex-boss had carried and Epipen for wasps/bee/etc stings. He might have been an exception to life saving efforts...or I'd at least ask for a HEALTHY raise before hand.

I wouldn't be so gauche as to tell that as I held the pen in my hand, poised to jab him.

 

But I flat would tell him-with a grin on my face, of course- not to forget it come evaluation time AFTER I jabbed him.

[Subdeacon Joe]

EpiPen, expensive ammo, no question, help them.

 

The suit, or any clothing....on the assumption that I have the skills and ability to rescue someone (which I don't) I would first strip down.   Wet clothes drag you down.  No sense in making it more difficult.  The 30 seconds it takes to get the clothes off likely won't make a difference.

 

[Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life]

I don’t get why this is even a question.

Most humans have a built in protective instinct that supersedes cost/benefit calculations.

Those who don’t, well that explains a lot.

If these kinds of calculations are part of someone’s decision process, just wow!
 

”I can’t provide cpr to a kid who was drowning because he will probably puke on my new shirt” 

“I will not drag an accident victim from a terrible car crash because there is blood everywhere”

”I will not give a ride to the hospital for a bloody and battered rape victim because I don’t want to be late for work”

 

Regards

    

Gateway Kid

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

I like to think that I would do The Right Thing if the situation presented itself. In this day and age though, I'd be more concerned about getting sued for something afterward.

[Pat Riot]

2 hours ago, Cypress Sun said:

Go to a horse stable to get laid? Must be a perverted kind of stud farm!

 Yeah, that sounds funny. But, I used to know quite a few guys that went to horse events solely to pick up girls / women. 
 

Otto is a POS

[DocWard]

On 10/7/2023 at 10:03 AM, Pat Riot said:

I don’t need an epipen so I don’t own one. Neither does my wife. 
 

If one is allergic to horses why would one go to where horses are?

I know, because they are stupid, greedy or hoping to get laid. Those are the only 3 reasons I can think of. 
“Help, a horse tail hit me in the face. I am allergic! I am going to die!”

I have seen anaphylaxis on several occasions as a medic, and a couple of times in civilian life. I have never seen someone “drop like a rock” as a result.

 

 I guess, though that you will need to put me in the “stupid” category. I’m highly allergic to Timothy grass, which is in hay, and I’m sitting at The All American Quarter Horse Congress with AB. Been going to horse shows for decades now. I’m also allergic to dogs and cats. We’ve always had both. 
 

The fact of the matter is, I do everything I can to make it as safe as possible. I can’t see not doing the things I enjoy because of it. Kind of like those fools who crash motorcycles again and again, nearly killing themselves and breaking their bodies beyond repair, but keep on riding. Nah, not that stupid.

[Pat Riot]

3 minutes ago, DocWard said:

I have seen anaphylaxis on several occasions as a medic, and a couple of times in civilian life. I have never seen someone “drop like a rock” as a result.

 

 I guess, thought that you will need to put me in the “stupid” category. I’m highly allergic to Timothy grass, which is in hay, and I’m sitting at The All American Quarter Horse Congress with AB. Been going to horse shows for decades now. I’m also allergic to dogs and cats. We’ve always had both. 
 

The fact of the matter is, I do everything I can to make it as safe as possible. I can’t see not doing the things I enjoy because of it. Kind of like those fools who crash motorcycles again and again, nearly killing themselves and breaking their bodies beyond repair, but keep on riding. Nah, not that stupid.

Sideways insults. Nice! Thankfully, I am not allergic or sensitive to those. 

 

If I offended you perhaps you should just say it. 
 

If I had an allergy I would do what I needed to do to protect myself. 

[DocWard]

28 minutes ago, Pat Riot said:

Sideways insults. Nice! Thankfully, I am not allergic or sensitive to those. 

 

If I offended you perhaps you should just say it. 
 

If I had an allergy I would do what I needed to do to protect myself. 

Sideways? And here I thought I was being fairly straightforward with my sarcasm. I’ll work harder in the future.

 

Was I offended? No. I thought it rather humorous. Seemed more like an ironic foot-in-mouth moment on your part, all things considered. I just wanted to point it out.

 

 I take all the precautions I can, from allergy shots, to inhalers and prescription pills. I would be stupid not to.

[Michigan Slim]

DONT MAKE ME STOP THIS CAR!

[Pat Riot]

18 minutes ago, DocWard said:

Sideways? And here I thought I was being fairly straightforward with my sarcasm. I’ll work harder in the future.

 

Was I offended? No. I thought it rather humorous. Seemed more like an ironic foot-in-mouth moment on your part, all things considered. I just wanted to point it out.

 

 I take all the precautions I can, from allergy shots, to inhalers and prescription pills. I would be stupid not to.

I can see how you would somehow make a connection between epipens and bike crashes. 

[The Shoer 27979]

If I did not have to put out cash at the moment, yes I would help, but I don't  have or carry an epipen and I reload so is no big deal. As far as the clothes part goes, the closes I get to nice,  is a new pair of wrangler. I have been known to drop down an roll under a car to fix something if I have to( that's why new jeans are dress up for me) I value life more then clothes or ammo

[Presidio]

Life first and foremost.  Costs is a later consideration.

[DocWard]

1 hour ago, Pat Riot said:

I can see how you would somehow make a connection between epipens and bike crashes. 

Well, you can explain it to me, because I was making a connection between people doing things proven to be bad for their wellbeing because they refuse to let the life and things they love doing be sidetracked.

 

Are you sure you’re not allergic or sensitive?

[Buckshot Bear]

6 hours ago, Alpo said:

EpiPen. I just looked them up. Brand name, $690. Generic's about half that, but that's still 350 bucks.

 

 

 

$690??

They are very cheap in Oz over the counter at a pharmacy.

You can get two for free on a prescription from your doctor. 

[Chili Ron]

Howdy,

To answer the second question......the fella didnt know he was allergic until he came in

contact with horses.  A CITY kid.

You can be deadly allergic to something and not know it.

I was given a med, big mistake. Never again.

But I am hardly allergic to much of the stuff that bothers others.

Best

CR

 

[John Kloehr]

I don't carry an epipen, but do generally carry a trauma pack with me.

 

My initial 1st aid class was in high school. A few others along the way. In the last couple years, I have taken 3 more from a local  EMT. And I have him outfit and maintain my trauma pack annually. And just tell me how much to pay after he does so.

 

Beyond just a basic vehicle kit, I have it as I am a basic firearms instructor. So besides normal 1st aid stuff, I directed the EMT to give me the ability to stabilize a shooting victim long enough for professional help to arrive. I would not hesitate to use any or all of the kit for anyone. While not an epipen, good chest seals and tourniquets are not cheap.

 

I also carry Narcan (times 2, one for whoever needs it and one for me if I get exposed while helping). Around here, we have occasional people simply dropping while in public.

 

I hope and pray I never have to use my kit for any such purpose but everything in it it expires and needs regular refresh even if not used, so I'm good either way.

 

Now looking closer at the OP question...

 

The only reason I can see to not provide an epipen would be if there is a solid reason for it being needed; I would understand the peanut scenario proposed for the airplane. If the other passenger with an epipen needs it for peanut allergy, an airplane is a very dangerous environment environment to be in. Too many passengers still insist on bringing peanuts as they do not understand recirculated air will expose everyone to their packet of Planters Peanuts. She has no need to know the assassin aspect and that it was peanuts triggering the episode. The airplane passenger should be on high alert on the possibility of peanuts and could likely need her pen in another 10 minutes. She actually would likely need it given the details we know.

 

The bee allergy lady? Yes, I absolutely would expect her to provide her pen to help someone with a horse allergy.

 

Hey, if two folks are shot and one of them is me, those are my chest seals and my tourniquets. If not needed for me, they are freely available.

[ORNERY OAF]

You let some innocent person die cause you want to save a few bucks, you gonna have to explain that on your judgement day, hope ya brought sunscreen cause I hear its hot down there.....

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

57 minutes ago, ORNERY OAF said:

You let some innocent person die cause you want to save a few bucks, you gonna have to explain that on your judgement day, hope ya brought sunscreen cause I hear its hot down there.....

I don't have need of an epipen, nor does anybody else that I know. If I did, I would have at least 2 on hand with me, and probably another one back at the house. If I had one, and somebody was in need, they would get one. But I'm certainly not going to get one just in case I happen to run into a situation where somebody needs one. Same with Narcan.

[DocWard]

3 hours ago, ORNERY OAF said:

You let some innocent person die cause you want to save a few bucks, you gonna have to explain that on your judgement day, hope ya brought sunscreen cause I hear its hot down there.....

 

I'm more a believer in karma, but your point is solid.

[watab kid]

most of us of a certain age were raised to help first and deal with the fallout later , saving someones life is a rather immediate thing , not something you sit and ponder on , you just act ........................lawyers have changed that thinking i guess , that and cell phone cameras .......

 

as a teen i once came across a younger kid floating in a pool , i didnt even think first just waded in and pulled him out and the adults that were sitting 50 feet away were aghast that they had not noticed but the kid survived , back then there probably wouldnt have even been a thought of a lawsuit had i not been able to save him , i was departing for a date and only stopped to "check in" with my folks , pure coincidence i happened upon him , had to go home and change but i never really gave it much thought after that , probably would do the same today should it present itself - i know id not think on it first , 

[Tennessee Trapper Tom]

I found out the hard way that as we age we can develop allergies we never had. Both my wife and I are from the country. Never had an epipen, that I knew of, until I had a reaction to Clams. The wife produced an epipen. Because she has worked in healthcare for 50+ years she has as I understand it now, always had one. I knew she had allergies but I didn’t know she had an Epipen. Evidently after seeming someone die at a nursing home, she requested based on her own allergies to have have one.  Her Doctor prescribed it.  

I’d like to think that we would all do the right thing,  but until confronted with a situation we wont truly know what we’ll  do. Many of us follow a path in life to confront life and death daily, and seem to naturally look to the welfare of others. (Hence my Wife). 

 

I hope and pray that I would make the decision to help if confronted with the choice. After all, it could be me needing that help.

 

 

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

Does an epipen harm someone who does not need it?

 

 

 

[Charlie Harley, #14153]

These posts are talking about the financial cost of the epi-pen or the $25/round ammo.

 

What about the physical risk when the person gives up their EPRI-pen to the stranger and doesn’t have a spare?  Dollar are nothing compared to the risk of the donor being stung while on the way to replenishing their pen.  
 

Thoughts?

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

I don’t need one, don’t know anyone in my immediate association who does.

 

if I have one on me it is as a Good Samaritan and addressed to Whom it May Concern.