UAW strike

[Texas Jack Black]

2 minutes ago, Oak Ridge Regulator said:

I don’t really care what they make. What I care about is what the guy twisting the wrenches make, I DONT feel there is anything good, honest or fair about pay spreads Like that

 That is why you are free to walk and find a better paying job. You can look for a job that pays you 29,000.000 a year.

A free country .

Best Wishes

[Pat Riot]

I have held my tongue long enough.
 

This isn’t communist Russia or China and quite honestly, in my opinion, unionism is a form of communism or collectivism. The only reason they have maintained footholds in the US either comes from greed. Criminal, political or collectivism, it’s all about greed. Greed from within and greed from outside. Greed for money, power, control or votes. 

 

I have never understood how in a supposedly free country how many people are literally socialist or even communistic in their thinking. It’s almost childlike in many ways. “He makes too much money!” 
Oh really? Who are you you determine this?

 

One of the reasons I literally hated living in SW Pennsylvania when I was a kid was this bizarre brainwashing of the youth to be patriotic yet at the same time stay in your “class” (as in lot in life, not classroom). People of wealth were disdained unless everyone could get something out of them. 

I remember being in high school and some coal mines were calling for a strike. I recall the kids of the miners coming to school and acting like troglodytes in regards to how their whole world was about to come apart and how all of us non-miner kids should be kissing their asses and falling in behind their opinions to provide group support.
I can tell you they only tried that crap once with me. I got my butt kicked but it took 5 of em and they all knew they had been there. 

That mentality still permeates that area of the state. Oddly enough, the supposedly less genteel state of WV isn’t like that. 
 

Winston Churchill once said “Any man under 30 who is not a liberal has no heart, and any man over thirty who is not a conservative has no brains.”

I apparently grew up without a heart or I got brains early. 
I never understood this desire of free people to be voluntarily controlled by their peers and allowing themselves to be put into a caste or class. 

 

[Oak Ridge Regulator]

I don’t know a lot about socialism, I stood on the Czech boarder in the 80s and watched the Russians keep people fleeing to Germany so I know a little firsthand about communism. My hands are well worn and calloused from a lifetime of hard work and there are parts of me that will never work right again from doing a honest days work for someone who has blisters where they sit. But I don’t know much about socialism and I don’t see how working men getting paid fair wages while the top 10% make obscene money is good for anyone but the top 10% but I guess there are plenty of people out there who would like to see the good old days of sweat shops come back again. And while we are at it throw in some child labor and then we can compete with China and India again. That way the top 10% can make even more

[Ozark Huckleberry]

The degree the government supports the unions kinda supports the theory I heard that the border situation is in part a way to push the economy to become more unionized.

[Texas Jack Black]

17 minutes ago, Oak Ridge Regulator said:

I don’t know a lot about socialism, I stood on the Czech boarder in the 80s and watched the Russians keep people fleeing to Germany so I know a little firsthand about communism. My hands are well worn and calloused from a lifetime of hard work and there are parts of me that will never work right again from doing a honest days work for someone who has blisters where they sit. But I don’t know much about socialism and I don’t see how working men getting paid fair wages while the top 10% make obscene money is good for anyone but the top 10% but I guess there are plenty of people out there who would like to see the good old days of sweat shops come back again. And while we are at it throw in some child labor and then we can compete with China and India again. That way the top 10% can make even more

 There are now laws that protect our workers. Unions are destroying our country look at the politicians that support unions and  you will then understand.

 

Best wishes

[Dirty Dan Dawkins]

22 hours ago, John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 said:

I’m I out of touch or does a 36% raise and a 20% less work hours (4 day work week) sound crazy? 

Yes you’re out of touch. With UAW. This sort of action would kill unions if not for political influence and intervention.

The key thing unions oft times miss is any effort to aid in any company’s profitability, efficiency and becoming globally competitive through technological advancements, There is little in the way of long term thinking, only wages, benefits, and the advancement union power over the private sector. Helping to build companies into a goose laying decades of golden eggs is far from their minds.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

The only differences between The UAW and Road Agents are the Shotguns and Masks.  Some years ago, the UAW and the local president stuck it International Harvester's Light Truck Division.  IH explained the light truck division (Think Scout II) was marginal for profitability.  The UAW pres. said BS and took the Union out on strike.  6 Months.  International finally caved.  The union said SEE!!  We Win!!  Take That !!  The light truck line/plant continued until they ran out of parts on hand then closed up tight.

 

Unions?  BAH. 

[Dirty Dan Dawkins]

55 minutes ago, Pat Riot said:

One of the reasons I literally hated living in SW Pennsylvania when I was a kid was this bizarre brainwashing of the youth to be patriotic yet at the same time stay in your “class” (as in lot in life, not classroom). People of wealth were disdained unless everyone could get something out of them. 

I remember being in high school and some coal mines were calling for a strike. I recall the kids of the miners coming to school and acting like troglodytes in regards to how their whole world was about to come apart and how all of us non-miner kids should be kissing their asses and falling in behind their opinions to provide group support.
I can tell you they only tried that crap once with me. I got my butt kicked but it took 5 of em and they all knew they had been there. 

That mentality still permeates that area of the state. Oddly enough, the supposedly less genteel state of WV isn’t like that. 

Ignorance exists everywhere and at all levels. Hell even I act ignorant sometimes 

[Pat Riot]

5 minutes ago, Dirty Dan Dawkins said:

Ignorance exists everywhere and at all levels. Hell even I act ignorant sometimes 

I have been blamed for not acting…

 

[Texas Joker]

1 hour ago, Oak Ridge Regulator said:

The top five at GM took home more than 72,000,000.00 last year. 5 people took 72 million dollars out of that company and they feel their workers make to much, that kind of greed destroys everyone and everything it touches

They didn't 'take it out of that company' they increased net value of the company.

 

At that level they are not W2 workers 'taking home' a paycheck. YES they get paid, but its a combination of bonuses paycheck and stock options. Make the shareholders money get rewarded.

 

they serve at the discretion of the Board Of  Directors. Look at the AB marketing thing lose a couple % of market share and look for a job.

 

At the top just like the folks running the back of house at Shoneys you get paid for performance and nobody is forcing GM to pay the c suite that money.

[Texas Joker]

1 hour ago, Oak Ridge Regulator said:

I don’t really care what they make. What I care about is what the guy twisting the wrenches make, I DONT feel there is anything good, honest or fair about pay spreads Like that

What does the pay spread matter? Look at the job description look at the pay and if YOU think it's equitable take the job. If you think it's not don't, or ask for more money. 

 

Lots of options out there

[Cypress Sun]

UAW "dues" are 2.5% of the worker's monthly salary/paycheck. For someone at $28hr that equals $70 per month/$840 per year. This amount is over above taxes/Medicare/social security/insurance/etc.

 

I've never been in any union, so I have no idea what my $840 a year is "buying" the UAW member. What are the "dues" buying the worker? From what I've been able to determine, the UAW has approximately 375,000 members. That's roughly $300 million a year. Seems to me that CEO's aren't the only ones raking in the money. 

 

 

[Oak Ridge Regulator]

23 minutes ago, Texas Jack Black said:

 There are now laws that protect our workers. Unions are destroying our country look at the politicians that support unions and  you will then understand.

 

Best wishes

Back in the mid 1980s my mother worked for Goodyear tire and rubber making shoe soles in Windsor Vt, Goodyear closed that plant citing union labor issues. My mother worked on a solepress forming rubber at 400 degrees  a foot in front of her face, two of her friends had missing finger tips from the presses closing to fast, Goodyear claimed they couldn’t make a profit at union wages so they sold out and moved everything to Korea. 3 things happened. Hundreds of workers lost their jobs in the area. The price of shoes made with Goodyear soles went UP. And Goodyear recorded a major PROFIT increase in their sole division. Now take a careful note here because the price of the shoe soles went UP as did their PROFITS now where do you think that money went.

  Take the time to really look at all the companies that move business overseas and blame American workers for costing to much, all of a sudden their making huge money in the top tier, it’s just plain Greed. And yea you can pick up and quit your job and move somewhere else but sometimes you just don’t want to leave family, friends and the place you grew up in just because of greed.

  I agree not all unions are good but remember the reason we have unions is because scumbags used to run sweatshops and even in the 1980s companies like Goodyear ran machines with no safety systems installed that mauled workers for life just to keep profits up.

  I’m a Republican and vote that way, theres not a bit of Democrat, Liberal or socialist in me but I will always support the guy shoveling in the ditch beside me no mater how he votes, if he works for you pay him and pay him fair

[Dirty Dan Dawkins]

17 minutes ago, Pat Riot said:

I have been blamed for not acting…

 

By my spouse…..regularly 

[Texas Jack Black]

19 minutes ago, Oak Ridge Regulator said:

Back in the mid 1980s my mother worked for Goodyear tire and rubber making shoe soles in Windsor Vt, Goodyear closed that plant citing union labor issues. My mother worked on a solepress forming rubber at 400 degrees  a foot in front of her face, two of her friends had missing finger tips from the presses closing to fast, Goodyear claimed they couldn’t make a profit at union wages so they sold out and moved everything to Korea. 3 things happened. Hundreds of workers lost their jobs in the area. The price of shoes made with Goodyear soles went UP. And Goodyear recorded a major PROFIT increase in their sole division. Now take a careful note here because the price of the shoe soles went UP as did their PROFITS now where do you think that money went.

  Take the time to really look at all the companies that move business overseas and blame American workers for costing to much, all of a sudden their making huge money in the top tier, it’s just plain Greed. And yea you can pick up and quit your job and move somewhere else but sometimes you just don’t want to leave family, friends and the place you grew up in just because of greed.

  I agree not all unions are good but remember the reason we have unions is because scumbags used to run sweatshops and even in the 1980s companies like Goodyear ran machines with no safety systems installed that mauled workers for life just to keep profits up.

  I’m a Republican and vote that way, theres not a bit of Democrat, Liberal or socialist in me but I will always support the guy shoveling in the ditch beside me no mater how he votes, if he works for you pay him and pay him fair

As I have said we all have choices . Get a good education and move up  that is what makes America great. I came home in 1971 served two tours as a RIVER RAT  I got a job as a helper to an Electrician I made 1.25  an hr. I went to school paid for it by working overtime and I had a part time job. I  decided to start my own business built it into a multi million dollar emergency power generation corp. I am now 75 and I am still involved with the family business. When I started I spent Hours of sacrifice away from my  family ,trying to keep the help happy, and build a company etc. 

 Education ,hard work  and sacrifice are the keys to success IMHO

 

 Best Wishes 

 

 

 Best Wishes

 

Best wishes

[Still hand Bill]

Unions can go both ways.  Friend was a union guy, end of the last contract management came in and said, we pay you too much, so how about a $4/hr decrease and a different work schedule.  Union said no way and struck.  Shut down the most profitable plant.  Union finally got a reasonable contract which was pretty similar to the one they had been working under and went back to work.  In that case the union did what it was supposed to do.  

 

other places I watched the unions drive up costs by requiring so many people per line that they made it difficult to make a profit.  
 

[bgavin]

I suggest reading "Atlas Shrugged" then taking an exit exam to prove understanding.
That which Ayn Rand called out in 1957 is now true today.

[Smuteye John SASS#24774]

1 hour ago, Pat Riot said:

I have been blamed for not acting…

 

Really?

 

I can easily see you acting out or acting up.

[Marshal Dan Troop 70448]

Only worked were we were required to join the Union or get fired once while going to college. After a year a strike was called. It lasted a little over 2 weeks. Those that showed up and walked the picket line, you were obligated to, received 15.00 a week. Oh yes, the workers on strike were hurting, and maybe the company a little also. But I can assure you, non of the elected Union Bosses were hurting nor the Union. Normally we had a turn-a-round in Spring. But that year there wasn't one so the company made up for the strike. Now the kicker was that what the company offered before the strike, was accepted at negotiation by the Union 2 weeks later and told us to vote to accept the offer and get back to work. I never worked for a Union ever again, nor ever wanted to or would.

In my home town, 2 big industries, big wage paying hourly jobs, rather the go through a Strike, shutdown and moved their operation to Iowa. The other factory moved their manufacturing job of making Sears Tool boxes, and cabinets moved to China.

[Pb Mark]

No dog in this strike, only looking at the positive side of it....

 

GM and Ford Leaders have made Mucho money and can always retire very well set and then some.

 

The typical UAW laborer can quickly retrain, then make more money as medical doctors and the like.  Fill the shortage.  Gotta be good at installing new hips, knees and the like...

 

Eventually, capitalism will (if allowed) return to us a real automobile with buttons, knobs and affordable prices.  The market for them is already there.

 

Down the road, even poetic justice may occur when those old big auto bosses go in themselves to get a new body part...

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

Shawn Fain and UAW leadership don’t give a rip about their members. The workers are just pawns in a game of increasing personal wealth and political power. The only reason politicians are interested in unions is because they’re a source of revenue. 

[Rip Snorter]

In former days, the unions would strong arm member votes.

[Cypress Sun]

20 minutes ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

Shawn Fain and UAW leadership don’t give a rip about their members. The workers are just pawns in a game of increasing personal wealth and political power. The only reason politicians are interested in unions is because they’re a source of revenue. 

 

And votes.

[Texas Jack Black]

2 hours ago, Marshal Dan Troop 70448 said:

Only worked were we were required to join the Union or get fired once while going to college. After a year a strike was called. It lasted a little over 2 weeks. Those that showed up and walked the picket line, you were obligated to, received 15.00 a week. Oh yes, the workers on strike were hurting, and maybe the company a little also. But I can assure you, non of the elected Union Bosses were hurting nor the Union. Normally we had a turn-a-round in Spring. But that year there wasn't one so the company made up for the strike. Now the kicker was that what the company offered before the strike, was accepted at negotiation by the Union 2 weeks later and told us to vote to accept the offer and get back to work. I never worked for a Union ever again, nor ever wanted to or would.

In my home town, 2 big industries, big wage paying hourly jobs, rather the go through a Strike, shutdown and moved their operation to Iowa. The other factory moved their manufacturing job of making Sears Tool boxes, and cabinets moved to China.

   Exactly

[Gungadin]

When the York PA CAT shop went on strike they wanted their 'Union Brothers' at my plant to support them.  If I remember the CAT Guys were making over twice the rate of my shop.  

 

Hmm, why was I worth so little and you so much?  You weren't you just thought you had leverage you  learned you didn't and now York is without a thousand jobs and all the support jobs, hotels, restaurants, bars, strip clubs...

 

But China and Mexico are probably happy.

[Trigger Mike]

Yellow trucking just went under after the union increased their cost to operate.  

[Trigger Mike]

I recall right before the banking crisis how pilot and other airline unions pushed for more from the fat cat executives as they put it. Not long after the economy tanked and many of those victorious union members were out of work.  

[Trigger Mike]

Before I retired from insurance, I worked hard, took .9 percent raises but worked harder, got promoted and much better raises.  Then one day my boss was in a department wide meeting and accidentally posted the email that had my salary.  It resulted lots of complaints because many of my peers made less.  Was I evil and mean because I made more?  I don’t think so.  I made more because me and another worker would bet each other lunch over who produced the most work each month, until some got jealous and complained we were doing that.  We kept working hard only no one but management knew how we were doing because they stopped posting monthly results.  When i retired my replacement demanded she get the same wage as me , they gave her 10 percent which was still no where near where I earned after over 15 years hard work.  
 

when I hear unions gripe it’s not fair a CEO makes millions more than they do I think, why not work harder and see if you don’t do better, working less and demanding more does not sit well with me.

[Seldom Seen #16162]

On 9/29/2023 at 9:46 AM, John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 said:

I’m I out of touch or does a 36% raise and a 20% less work hours (4 day work week) sound crazy? 

Not to me.

 

I know that since Forum members are retired after many years of hard work this is not a popular opinion.

 

The Covid has caused a lot of people to reassess what is important in their lives.

 

The annual salary management says union members are making includes overtime based on a 50 hour work week (probably six days a week).

 

Thanks to the COVID19 restrictions folks are discussing spending more time with their family, less stress in their lives, enjoying hobbies, etc.
 

I have mixed feelings about unions

but am generally becoming more

supportive of them.

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

1 hour ago, Trigger Mike said:

I worked hard, took .9 percent raises but worked harder, got promoted and much better raises.  Was I evil and mean because I made more?  I don’t think so.  I made more because me and another worker would bet each other lunch over who produced the most work each month, until some got jealous and complained we were doing that.  

Therein lies the problem with unions. No matter how hard, or not, one works, they all make the same money. This is because of the "collective bargaining" power that unions have. This example is also why most unions vote democrat, they're used to having someone ELSE do for them, instead of working harder on their own to make things better for themselves. 

It seems in this day and age that the primary reasons for unions to exist is to make union bosses rich, divert union dues to the democrat party, which allows the unions to have more power over their members due to collective bargaining.

[bgavin]

In the computer business, one has to constantly change employers to realize their full salary potential.
When I was at IBM, they called this "salary compression" when a new-hire salary was darn close to an old timer who had been there for years.

Now that company loyalty (including IBM) has been flushed down the toilet, it is entirely up to the employee to watch out for his best interest.
If that means moving on to a higher paying job, then so be it.
 

[Trigger Mike]

54 minutes ago, bgavin said:

In the computer business, one has to constantly change employers to realize their full salary potential.
When I was at IBM, they called this "salary compression" when a new-hire salary was darn close to an old timer who had been there for years.

Now that company loyalty (including IBM) has been flushed down the toilet, it is entirely up to the employee to watch out for his best interest.
If that means moving on to a higher paying job, then so be it.
 

Hey, my dad retired from itty bitty machines after 25 years.  He had some interesting stories to tell 

[J-BAR #18287]

As long as there are stupid management policies, there will be unions.  And there should be.

 

As a Federal Veterinarian (we monitor sanitation in slaughterhouses, food processing plants, and diseases in food animals on farms and ranches, etc.) I had to swear never to strike against the Federal Government.  At the time I was employed, the Government had a strange policy regarding overtime for its veterinarians.  We would work our first 8 hours at our regular rate.  But if we were forced to work beyond 8 hours, (frequently happened in large establishments) our overtime rate was the same for all veterinarians in  Federal Service; an "average" between the lowest and highest rates, not true time-and-a-half.  So if you were an experienced veterinarian, managing other inspectors, your overtime hourly wage could easily be less than what you earned during regular time.  You took a pay cut when you were forced to work overtime.

 

Fortunately, veterinarians in Federal service have a union (NAFV; non-striking)  that finally got that policy changed several years ago. Veterinarians working overtime are now paid time-and-a-half their true salary.

 

I am not a fan of unions in general. Neither am I a fan of someone taking advantage of me.

 

 

 

 

 

[Rye Miles #13621]

I’m not a fan of unions, I belonged to the Musicians Union for quite a few years. I’m not a member anymore. I had some in the retirement fund and took the cash, a couple thousand dollars. It was kind of a joke with local musicians they make their money on the big time performers.
Unions can ruin a company quick with their me me attitude . The company has to make money on

whatever product they sell ! Business 101 

[bgavin]

3 hours ago, Trigger Mike said:

Hey, my dad retired from itty bitty machines after 25 years.  He had some interesting stories to tell 

I did the same at 25 years... forced out.
IBM did that to all of us who were closing in on retirement age.

They bought out our pensions for a pittance, and showed us the door.