evil dogooder Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 Did they change the rules, or is it still illegal to time for family members? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 As far as I know - it has never been illegal to time for family members. Spotting is prohibited (or at minimum; strongly discouraged) but on short posses sometimes occurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 I have run the timer for my daughter Desert Scorpion and wife Painted Lady since they entered the game. 2005 and 2018 respectively. They would have NEVER began or continued if they had been unable to request me to time when they were new or on confusing stages where I could assist. Spotting is subjective and can be colored by excessive benefit of a doubt or by being overly zealous - so it makes sense to avoid spotters having any "emotional" stake in the shooters performance. Might not be cheating per se - but there is opportunity for skewed perspectives. But the timer operator is a safety position and having the ABSOLUTE best person in place for the shooter is always the best choice - regardless of bloodlines. If the timer cheats for anyone - remove them from the event, the range, ostracize their name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 42 minutes ago, evil dogooder said: Did they change the rules, or is it still illegal to time for family members? That has never been a rule. The following are from the RO1 course: Quote - Spotters never spot for a family member. ... ... - A Score Keeper must never record the score of a family member. RO1 p.27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil dogooder Posted March 6, 2023 Author Share Posted March 6, 2023 2 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said: That has never been a rule. The following are from the RO1 course: RO1 p.27 Thanks. I guess I was told wrong. My daughter was asking if I could time for her at a big match so she wouldn't be so scared. I thought I couldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 I must admit I have spotted for Ellie and vice versa at local matches. Never had anyone complain so far. After all there are 3 spotters and it is a game. We've both made call for misses and P's against each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 I have run the timer for my wife and kids (back when they were young) but never spotted for them at anything above a monthly match and we were short handed. With four of us on a posse of 10 or 11 it's hard to avoid sometimes. However, if for no other reason, my personal sense of self preservation makes sure I NEVER spot for my wife! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin Gator SASS #29736 Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 Husband or dad timing family members should be no problem. But I would think there are other timer operators at a club who can help new shooters through a stage too. Not the best situation if there aren't others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustang Gregg Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 My wife will be the first to call a miss on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalope Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 10 minutes ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said: Husband or dad timing family members should be no problem.... I don't think its a problem if a wife times family members either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said: Husband or dad timing family members should be no problem. But I would think there are other timer operators at a club who can help new shooters through a stage too. Not the best situation if there aren't others. Having plenty of TOs is usually not the problem It is having a TO that the shooter is comfortable with can be.Between all the clubs we shot at there were several TOs she was ok with and a couple she would take a DNF rather than have them as TO. Because her having the most enjoyable shooting experience was my top priority; I always made she was able to shoot with a TO that maximized her enjoyment. Sometime it was me and other times is was someone else. The TOs she was not comfortable with were not bad TOs. They either provided her with too much coaching or way too little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 We've ran some small posses were couple husbands and wives or even pastel of kids where we hardly had enough to get jobs done. I've never seen any instance where someone used this to an advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Mustang Gregg said: My wife will be the first to call a miss on me. And before the BEEP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Duncan Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 I will not spot for my family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin Gator SASS #29736 Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 46 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said: Having plenty of TOs is usually not the problem It is having a TO that the shooter is comfortable with can be.Between all the clubs we shot at there were several TOs she was ok with and a couple she would take a DNF rather than have them as TO. Because her having the most enjoyable shooting experience was my top priority; I always made she was able to shoot with a TO that maximized her enjoyment. Sometime it was me and other times is was someone else. The TOs she was not comfortable with were not bad TOs. They either provided her with too much coaching or way too little. Of course each shooter should be able to have a TO that they are comfortable with to run them. Should never have to have someone that would make them consider not shooting. I'm just saying that there should be other TOs who are acceptable other then only relying on family members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sloe Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 I think that this is one rule that could go away. I've seen more issues with a TO timing "friends" than family. BS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 What rule?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sloe Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 1 minute ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said: What rule?? Timing family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 My notifications indicate that you read & responded to this 4 hours ago: 4 hours ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said: That has never been a rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nostrum Damus SASS #110702 Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 3 hours ago, Mustang Gregg said: My wife will be the first to call a miss on me. Even on days when she doesn't attend the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nostrum Damus SASS #110702 Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 Seriously, I don't spot or record score for Bullion Rose, but I don't have any problem timing for her. The machine is TO agnostic and I always call out the time and show the display to both the scorekeeper and the shooter. Most of the other things that I might call on her as TO are also objective, not subjective; in the extremely rare event that she really messes up and it is a matter of discretion what to call, I know my friends on the stage will help us get to the correct result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 ive always thought it would be the right thing to do to step away from any oversight of a family member , i have spotted friends and no they got no advantage because we all had to sit around the campfire later and face each other ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sloe Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 11 hours ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said: My notifications indicate that you read & responded to this 4 hours ago: My bad (old age). I meant spotting for family. At monthly matches I spot for the wife frequently. I spot the same as I would for anyone else. Cheaters, well there are 2 other spotters to balance that out, hopefully. BS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Maverick Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 15 hours ago, Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L said: I have run the timer for my wife and kids (back when they were young) but never spotted for them at anything above a monthly match and we were short handed. With four of us on a posse of 10 or 11 it's hard to avoid sometimes. However, if for no other reason, my personal sense of self preservation makes sure I NEVER spot for my wife! If you did you would probably end up being exactly what you name implies, Dogmeat Dad. LOL TM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 14 minutes ago, Texas Maverick said: If you did you would probably end up being exactly what you name implies, Dogmeat Dad. LOL TM Dogmeat is not just a name, it's a lifestyle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 When all five of us are shooting a match it's hard for there not to be some overlap, particularly when the posse sizes are small. I prefer that either the Iron Cowboy or I run the timer for Lethal Lizzie and Kid Flash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 17 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said: But the timer operator is a safety position and having the ABSOLUTE best person in place for the shooter is always the best choice Then why were you doing it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie MacNeil, SASS #48580 Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 Not to hijack the thread, but a number of years ago at the Idaho state match a shooter on another posse objected to our posse being made up of mostly family members and friends because we could cheat for each other. One of the club officials told her that wouldn’t be a problem because he had shot with us before and knew that nobody would let anybody else get away with anything... Sorry about digressing. We now take you back to you regularly scheduled thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawdog Dago Dom Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 5 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said: When all five of us are shooting a match it's hard for there not to be some overlap, particularly when the posse sizes are small. I prefer that either the Iron Cowboy or I run the timer for Lethal Lizzie and Kid Flash. Same here. With grandkids shooting we also total 5 on a posse. If you need to win that bad that you will ignore an obvious M or P for a relative, then you have bigger issues to address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 If you want to establish this practice, how do you handle "significant others". We've unmarried couples shoot. Or old buddies that would likely give more each other some slack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 34 minutes ago, Warden Callaway said: If you want to establish this practice, how do you handle "significant others". We've unmarried couples shoot. Or old buddies that would likely give more each other some slack? I'm not a fan of "banning" anything because "something could occur". That, to me, falls under the "If it saves even one life" umbrella of punishing the masses for the actions of the few. Cheaters are cheaters. And we all know the difference between sloppiness or inattention and cheating. If someone is actually CHEATING - end it. Call the cheater out AT THE MOMENT IT HAPPENS. Kick them out of your event. Kick them off your range. Make every shooter at the event aware of the occurrence and that it will not be tolerated. Make every club aware of their behavior. Cheaters only prosper when folks look the other way - use the excuse of its only a game - go along to get along. But to imply that simply because of a bloodline relation or friendship that someone is prone to cheat is an insult. No matter whether that person is carrying the timer, spotter stick or scoresheet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 42 minutes ago, Warden Callaway said: If you want to establish this practice, how do you handle "significant others". We've unmarried couples shoot. Or old buddies that would likely give more each other some slack? I have never seen or heard first hand accounts of bias between family members. However, I have seen heard first hand accounts of bias in calling misses within a posse full of "close friends". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie MacNeil, SASS #48580 Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 7 hours ago, Warden Callaway said: Or old buddies that would likely give more each other some slack? My best friend/traveling partner/shooting buddy and I have been playing this game since we met in 2005. Neither of us would ever think to “give each other some slack” and would both be insulted to be accused of having done it. You can’t legislate ethics and morals; either you’re ethical and moral or you’re not, and no amount of rules is going to keep a cheater from cheating. I agree with Creeker: making a rule “because something might happen” is wrong, and I feel that it impugns the integrity of the vast majority of SASS shooters... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 At EOT there was one stage with all knockdown targets. No spotters were needed. A makeup target merely needed needed to be shot at but not hit. Nevertheless, no family member spotted for another on this stage. At local matches family members sometimes spot for another family member. There are not enough shooters to do otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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