Timing for family

[evil dogooder]

Did they change the rules, or is it still illegal to time for family members?

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

As far as I know - it has never been illegal to time for family members.

Spotting is prohibited

(or at minimum; strongly discouraged) but on short posses sometimes occurs.

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

I have run the timer for my daughter Desert Scorpion and wife Painted Lady since they entered the game.

2005 and 2018 respectively.

They would have NEVER began or continued if they had been unable to request me to time when they were new or on confusing stages where I could assist.

 

Spotting is subjective and can be colored by excessive benefit of a doubt or by being overly zealous - so it makes sense to avoid spotters having any "emotional" stake in the shooters performance.  Might not be cheating per se - but there is opportunity for skewed perspectives.

 

But the timer operator is a safety position and having the ABSOLUTE best person in place for the shooter is always the best choice - regardless of bloodlines.

If the timer cheats for anyone - remove them from the event, the range, ostracize their name.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

42 minutes ago, evil dogooder said:

Did they change the rules, or is it still illegal to time for family members?

 

That has never been a rule.

The following are from the RO1 course:

Quote

 

- Spotters never spot for a family member.

...

...

- A Score Keeper must never record the score of a family member.

 

RO1 p.27

 

[evil dogooder]

2 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

That has never been a rule.

The following are from the RO1 course:

RO1 p.27

 

Thanks. I guess I was told wrong.  My daughter was asking if I could time for her at a big match so she wouldn't be so scared.  I thought I couldn't.

[Eyesa Horg]

I must admit I have spotted for Ellie and vice versa at local matches. Never had anyone complain so far. After all there are 3 spotters and it is a game. We've both made call for misses and P's against each other.

[Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L]

I have run the timer for my wife and kids (back when they were young) but never spotted for them at anything above a monthly match and we were short handed.  With four of us on a posse of 10 or 11 it's hard to avoid sometimes.  However, if for no other reason, my personal sense of self preservation makes sure I NEVER spot for my wife!

[Smokin Gator SASS #29736]

Husband or dad timing family members should be no problem. But I would think there are other timer operators at a club who can help new shooters through a stage too.  Not the best situation if there aren't others. 

[Mustang Gregg]

My wife will be the first to call a miss on me.

 

[Jackalope]

10 minutes ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said:

Husband or dad timing family members should be no problem....

 

I don't think its a problem if a wife times family members either.

 

[Sedalia Dave]

1 hour ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said:

Husband or dad timing family members should be no problem. But I would think there are other timer operators at a club who can help new shooters through a stage too.  Not the best situation if there aren't others. 

 

Having plenty of TOs is usually not the problem It is having a TO that the shooter is comfortable with can be.Between all the clubs we shot at there were several TOs she was ok with and a couple she would take a DNF rather than have them as TO.

 

Because her having the most enjoyable shooting experience was my top priority; I always made she was able to shoot with a TO that maximized her enjoyment. Sometime it was me and other times is was someone else.

 

The TOs she was not comfortable with were not bad TOs. They either provided her with too much coaching or way too little.

[Warden Callaway]

We've ran some small posses were couple husbands and wives or even pastel of kids where we hardly had enough to get jobs done. I've never seen any instance where someone used this to an advantage. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

1 hour ago, Mustang Gregg said:

My wife will be the first to call a miss on me.

 

And before the BEEP 

[Matthew Duncan]

I will not spot for my family.

[Smokin Gator SASS #29736]

46 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

Having plenty of TOs is usually not the problem It is having a TO that the shooter is comfortable with can be.Between all the clubs we shot at there were several TOs she was ok with and a couple she would take a DNF rather than have them as TO.

 

Because her having the most enjoyable shooting experience was my top priority; I always made she was able to shoot with a TO that maximized her enjoyment. Sometime it was me and other times is was someone else.

 

The TOs she was not comfortable with were not bad TOs. They either provided her with too much coaching or way too little.

 

Of course each shooter should be able to have a TO that they are comfortable with to run them. Should never have to have someone that would make them consider not shooting. I'm just saying that there should be other TOs who are acceptable other then only relying on family members.

[Barry Sloe]

I think that this is one rule that could go away.  I've seen more issues with a TO timing "friends" than family. 

 

BS

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

What rule??

[Barry Sloe]

1 minute ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

What rule??

Timing family. 

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

 

 

My notifications indicate that you read & responded to this 4 hours ago:

 

4 hours ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

That has never been a rule.

 

[Nostrum Damus SASS #110702]

3 hours ago, Mustang Gregg said:

My wife will be the first to call a miss on me.

 

Even on days when she doesn't attend the match. 

[Nostrum Damus SASS #110702]

Seriously, I don't spot or record score for Bullion Rose, but I don't have any problem timing for her.  The machine is TO agnostic and I always call out the time and show the display to both the scorekeeper and the shooter.  Most of the other things that I might call on her as TO are also objective, not subjective; in the extremely rare event that she really messes up and it is a matter of discretion what to call, I know my friends on the stage will help us get to the correct result.  

[watab kid]

ive always thought it would be the right thing to do to step away from any oversight of a family member , i have spotted friends and no they got no advantage because we all had to sit around the campfire later and face each other ...........

[Barry Sloe]

11 hours ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

 

My notifications indicate that you read & responded to this 4 hours ago:

 

 

My bad (old age). I meant spotting for family. 

At monthly matches I spot for the wife frequently. I spot the same as I would for anyone else. Cheaters, well there are 2 other spotters to balance that out, hopefully. 

 

BS

 

[Texas Maverick]

15 hours ago, Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L said:

I have run the timer for my wife and kids (back when they were young) but never spotted for them at anything above a monthly match and we were short handed.  With four of us on a posse of 10 or 11 it's hard to avoid sometimes.  However, if for no other reason, my personal sense of self preservation makes sure I NEVER spot for my wife!

If you did you would probably end up being exactly what you name implies, Dogmeat Dad. LOL

 

TM

[Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L]

14 minutes ago, Texas Maverick said:

If you did you would probably end up being exactly what you name implies, Dogmeat Dad. LOL

 

TM

 

Dogmeat is not just a name, it's a lifestyle! 

[Captain Bill Burt]

When all five of us are shooting a match it's hard for there not to be some overlap, particularly when the posse sizes are small.  I prefer that either the Iron Cowboy or I run the timer for Lethal Lizzie and Kid Flash. 

[Shooting Bull]

17 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

But the timer operator is a safety position and having the ABSOLUTE best person in place for the shooter is always the best choice

 

 

Then why were you doing it? 

[Charlie MacNeil, SASS #48580]

Not to hijack the thread, but a number of years ago at the Idaho state match a shooter on another posse objected to our posse being made up of mostly family members and friends because we could cheat for each other. One of the club officials told her that wouldn’t be a problem because he had shot with us before and knew that nobody would let anybody else get away with anything...

 

Sorry about digressing. We now take you back to you regularly scheduled thread...

[Lawdog Dago Dom]

5 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

When all five of us are shooting a match it's hard for there not to be some overlap, particularly when the posse sizes are small.  I prefer that either the Iron Cowboy or I run the timer for Lethal Lizzie and Kid Flash. 

Same here. With grandkids shooting we also total 5 on a posse. If you need to win that bad that you will ignore an obvious M or P for a relative, then you have bigger issues to address.

[Warden Callaway]

If you want to establish this practice, how do you handle "significant others". We've unmarried couples shoot. Or old buddies that would likely give more each other some slack?

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

34 minutes ago, Warden Callaway said:

If you want to establish this practice, how do you handle "significant others". We've unmarried couples shoot. Or old buddies that would likely give more each other some slack?

I'm not a fan of "banning" anything because "something could occur".

 

That, to me, falls under the "If it saves even one life" umbrella of punishing the masses for the actions of the few.

 

Cheaters are cheaters.

And we all know the difference between sloppiness or inattention and cheating.

If someone is actually CHEATING - end it.

Call the cheater out AT THE MOMENT IT HAPPENS.

Kick them out of your event.

Kick them off your range.

Make every shooter at the event aware of the occurrence and that it will not be tolerated.

Make every club aware of their behavior.

 

Cheaters only prosper when folks look the other way - use the excuse of its only a game - go along to get along.

 

But to imply that simply because of a bloodline relation or friendship that someone is prone to cheat is an insult.

 

No matter whether that person is carrying the timer, spotter stick or scoresheet.

 

[Sedalia Dave]

42 minutes ago, Warden Callaway said:

If you want to establish this practice, how do you handle "significant others". We've unmarried couples shoot. Or old buddies that would likely give more each other some slack?

 

I have never seen or heard first hand accounts of bias between family members. 

 

However, I have seen heard first hand accounts of bias in calling misses within a posse full of "close friends".

 

 

[Charlie MacNeil, SASS #48580]

7 hours ago, Warden Callaway said:

Or old buddies that would likely give more each other some slack?

My best friend/traveling partner/shooting buddy and I have been playing this game since we met in 2005. Neither of us would ever think to “give each other some slack” and would both be insulted to be accused of having done it. You can’t legislate ethics and morals; either you’re ethical and moral or you’re not, and no amount of rules is going to keep a cheater from cheating.  I agree with Creeker: making a rule “because something might happen” is wrong, and I feel that it impugns the integrity of the vast majority of SASS shooters...

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

At EOT there was one stage with all knockdown targets.  No spotters were needed.  A makeup target merely needed needed to be shot at but not hit.  Nevertheless, no family member spotted for another on this stage.

 

At local matches family members sometimes spot for another family member.  There are not enough shooters to do otherwise.