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WTC gun knocked off Loading table


Irish-Pat
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at a shoot the loading table was overcrowded. shooters were sliding guns to make for more.  A loaded revolver fell off the table. The owner got a MDQ. some one else was sliding a rifle and caused the problem. Just always be careful 

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7 minutes ago, Irish-Pat said:

at a shoot the loading table was overcrowded. shooters were sliding guns to make for more.  A loaded revolver fell off the table. The owner got a MDQ. some one else was sliding a rifle and caused the problem. Just always be careful 

WTH???

If someone knocks MY loaded revolver off the loading table I’M not getting a MDQ!!!

What’s  wrong with y’all???

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The person who caused the problem should've had the MDQ not the owner.

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47 minutes ago, Irish-Pat said:

at a shoot the loading table was overcrowded. shooters were sliding guns to make for more.  A loaded revolver fell off the table. The owner got a MDQ. some one else was sliding a rifle and caused the problem. Just always be careful 

 

IF that was a known FACT, then WHY was the owner MDQ'd??
 

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I’d think twice about attending that match again if they MDQ’d me for something that I didn’t do.

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17 minutes ago, Irish-Pat said:

 Nobody owned up to it

 

"Nobody owned up to it"...so an MDQ was arbitrarily given to the gun owner? In the words of the guy riding at the back of the cattle drive...bulls***.

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Why was the loading table allowed to become that overcrowded in the first place?  Sounds like some shooters need to have a little patience and wait their turn.  The original post doesn’t mention whether the MDQed shooter’s guns were moved by hand or bumped gun on gun but neither is okay.  I’d prefer to be the only one to handle my own equipment and am certainly not okay with having them dinged up by someone else’s.  I’d never return to that particular match ever again and wouldn’t be surprised if your MDQed shooter does the same. 

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1 hour ago, Irish-Pat said:

 Nobody owned up to it

 

Then they all should have been awarded a MDQ.

 

Maybe then the guilty party would have been uncovered.

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A few missing and or unknown facts in the OP.

 

Is it a range rule that loaded firearms must remain (not holstered) on the loading table until Shooter is called?

 

Why wasn’t the DQed Shooter personally supervising their loaded firearms.?

Edited by Matthew Duncan
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While I certainly don't understand penalizing the pistol's owner for something he didn't do... he certainly aided the incident by leaving his pistols unattended on the loading table.  Leaving loaded guns on a table unattended is not the mark of a safety conscious gun owner.  Plus this scenario points out the foolishness of requiring pistols to be left on a loading table until headed to the line.  Making an already crowded space even more crowded.  I'm absolutely sure that I'm not the only shooter that's loaded my rifle & pistols and realized that I had to go back to my cart for some reason... (forgot shotgun ammo. etc.).  However, in each and every instance I asked another shooter there to watch my guns... mainly so something like this didn't happen.  

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1 hour ago, Matthew Duncan said:

A few missing and or unknown facts in the OP.

 

Is it a range rule that loaded firearms must remain (not holstered) on the loading table until Shooter is called?

 

Why wasn’t the DQed Shooter personally supervising their loaded firearms.?

Is it a range rule that loaded firearms must remain (not holstered) on the loading table until Shooter is called?

This in my opinion is the most stupid rule of all. The safest place for your loaded pistols is IN YOUR HOLSTER.!

And that incident has just proven the fact, I do not abide by that rule if a range has that rule. It's just dumb.

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IMO...
The firearms on the LT were NOT "unattended" if
"... the loading table was overcrowded. shooters were sliding guns to make for more."

 

There could have been any number of reasons that the shooter tabled the loaded revolvers and was not directly watching them.

E.g., returning ammo boxes/loading strips to gun cart, getting shotgun ammo, stepped away to observe the stage engagement, etc.
But one would think that the owner was close enough to the LT to be blamed for the dropped loaded revolver.

 

Only KNOWN fact mentioned by the OP is that "some one else was sliding a rifle and caused the problem."

 

Did the shooter protest the MDQ?

 

 

Edited by PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L
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You touch it, you’re responsible for where it ends up.
 

I love the game and the vast majority of my pards as well, but I don’t want folks moving my guns around. Don’t ‘slide’ them on the table and don’t ‘expedite’ them off the stage unless the rules require it. That’s just rude.

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I wonder if there was a loading table officer there? I certainly would not allow a loading table to be overcrowded if I was watching it, let alone allow people to slide around other shooters guns.

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15 minutes ago, doc roy l. pain said:

Is there an actual rule in place that covers this specifically??  


If there isn’t, you can bet your last nickel that there soon will be!

 

This is another example of why there should be a loading table officer and that that officer should have complete control over what goes on at the table!!

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This sounds like a good topic to address at our first shoot of 2023, also to note to anyone working the loading table to be vigilant about a shooter touching another shooters guns. Overcrowded loading tables usually mean theres  a brass picker or target reset person or a spotter missing. It's always good to run a tight ship out there on the range hurt feelings can never outweigh safety.

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1 hour ago, doc roy l. pain said:

Is there an actual rule in place that covers this specifically??  

 

59 minutes ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

If there isn’t, you can bet your last nickel that there soon will be!

...

 

There should not have to be a rule (or written clarification) absolving a shooter of any blame under such circumstances.

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1 minute ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

 

There should not have to be a rule (or written clarification) absolving a shooter of any blame under such circumstances.


I totally agree!!  The rule book is already way too big, as you and I have discussed at length.  


Sadly, common sense and a sense of fairness are often in short supply when competition is involved.

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The loading table gets so crowded you can't hardly move?  I'd have to start coughing, sneezing, smile and tell folks I musta ate a bad batch of bat soup!  Where I shoot, only 3 at a time are allowed on the loading table.   That's just courteous.   

Edited by Crusty Knees
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What irks me is shooters that come to the table with rifle and pistols, load them, then walk off back to their cart on the other side of the stage to drop off the loading block and bring back their shotgun. Mean while nobody else can get up to the table and then have to rush to get loaded as 2 shooters have moved along to the firing line. 

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14 hours ago, Yul Lose said:

I’d think twice about attending that match again if they MDQ’d me for something that I didn’t do.

I would also be demanding my entry fee back for their failure to act according to the rules. I would hope he at least challenged this action.

 

TM

Edited by Texas Maverick
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For the most part, I never leave my loaded handguns on the table, I holster them. If I leave them on the loading table to get something, they are placed where they would never be remotely close to the edge of the table and the unwritten rule most observe is never touch another person's firearms. A lot of places I shoot do not have a loading officer, but 99% have an unloading officer or the previous shooter checks the person behind him's firearms at the unloading table.

 

Sounds like somebody was in a hurry and that is the biggest cause of accidents anywhere. I hate being rushed to loaded or shoot and that is the times I have had problems or did poorly. Rushing things at the loading table or another shooter is worst thing I can think of and is not safe.

 

I usually bring all my stuff to the firing line at one time, and if i have to leave the table to get something, I try to make sure i do it before I load my firearms. I have seen some flimsy loading tables or uneven tables that things will slide off, and I never leave anything unattended on them. I would be unhappy if that happened to me, but in the end the shooter is responsible for his own firearms.

 

 

My only question is why was he not at the loading table when his gun fell to the ground.

 

 

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17 hours ago, Jackaroo, # 29989 said:

Is it a range rule that loaded firearms must remain (not holstered) on the loading table until Shooter is called?

This in my opinion is the most stupid rule of all. The safest place for your loaded pistols is IN YOUR HOLSTER.!

And that incident has just proven the fact, I do not abide by that rule if a range has that rule. It's just dumb.

Strongly agree.  With pistols holstered, handling 2 long guns on the table is much easier to handle than 4 firearms on the table.  Besides that's what holster are for. they hold your pistols.

Edited by I. M. Crossdraw, SASS# 8321
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3 hours ago, Maddog McCoy SASS #5672 said:

My only question is why was he not at the loading table when his gun fell to the ground.

 

The OP did not state where the shooter was.
But one would think that the owner was close enough to the LT to be blamed for the dropped loaded revolver.

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And if nobody owned up, then all at the loading table should have got a MDQ.

I'm sure the culprit would have owned up pretty quick then, when his fellow cowboys got hit and knowingly didn't do it.

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9 minutes ago, Jackaroo, # 29989 said:

And if nobody owned up, then all at the loading table should have got a MDQ.

I'm sure the culprit would have owned up pretty quick then, when his fellow cowboys got hit and knowingly didn't do it.

But that wouldn’t be right either!!

The question is: who knew who the culprit was? Covering for the guilty party is wrong! Despite what some idiots call “being a snitch”!

Ive never understood that mentality! Covering for wrongdoers!

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im of the oppinion if loaded items need to be moved on the loading table - only the owner should do it , i never toch anyone elses loaded guns , i only would touch someone elses unloaded gun after asking and getting permission , the owner of the gun is responcible but no-one else should touch them .....if the table is full stand backand wait your turn , 

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Penalizing everyone at the table is the lazy man's (or governmental), way of resolving an issue.  I.e. in the military they punish everyone in the company if one is late to formation.  If I was the TO, I'd simply refuse to let anyone run the stage that had guns at the table until the culprit 'fessed up.  Including the gun's owner.  If it was "a crowded loading table", someone saw the culprit!  You wanna cover for your stupid partner in crime, take the DNF for that stage.  No skin off my nose.  Harder for me to finish last, but... 

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I'm still awed that the knocker offer wasn't immediately remorseful.:unsure:

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