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20 hours ago, Father Kit Cool Gun Garth said:

 

I'd like to keep the cost under $500 and the 1301 exceeds it.

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This is a great choice if you want to spend the money. I've handled one several times and a couple friends own these. Are they better than a Benelli M2, M3 or M4? No. But they do play nicely with their cousins.

 

Perhaps look for a used Rem870 Police gun. The Police 870s were made a bit more robust in some areas than the standard 870 Express. These usually sell cheap and will take plenty more beating.

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Another thought...

 

If practical, arm BOTH of you with SxS shotguns you probably already own for CAS. 4 barrels is better than 2.

 

If you know there is an intruder in your home, barricade yourselves in the bedroom both armed with shotguns and call 911. Take a defensive position instead of taking it upon yourself to split up while trying to clear every room in the house. Cops by and large don't like room clearing and they train for it; they understand how dangerous it is. If you have any physical limitations on mobility, hearing, etc, a defensive position is probably the best plan in many home invasion scenarios.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

'Nuder thing: The Ruger PCC's street price seems to be about $550 to $600, as of June 5th, the Year of our Lord Joe Biden 2022.  Then there's tax and license and the accessories. 

FKCGG, if you want to come to the Spaced Coast in Middling Florida, we'll put you and your lovely bride behind our RPCC for a test drive.
 

Edited by Uno Mas SASS #80082
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12 minutes ago, Dantankerous said:

Perhaps look for a used Rem870 Police gun. The Police 870s were made a bit more robust in some areas than the standard 870 Express. These usually sell cheap and will take plenty more beating.

Interestingly, one of the options I'm considering is the...

Snip-it_1654358548341.thumb.jpg.159d8c371aaa392703cc56ac9b9b352e.jpgThanks for the insight on the 870 Police version.

 

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29 minutes ago, Uno Mas SASS #80082 said:

'Nuder thing: The Ruger PCC's street price seems to be about $550 to $600, as of June 5th, the Year of our Lord Joe Biden 2022.  Then there's tax and license and the accessories. 

FKCGG, if you want to come to the Spaced Coast in Middling Florida, we'll put you and your lovely bride behind our RPCC for a test drive.
 

UNO,

   Thank you for the invite.

   Ann has mentioned wanting a trip to the coast later this year.

    May take you up on it.

    We both have AR15's as well as the aforementioned shotguns, yet still interested in the pump or semi-auto version which we currently don't have.

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Mine is an 870 Wingmaster with 20" deer barrel and full extended magazine.

I know first-hand that racking the slide does not deter the drunk or the stupid.

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ALL:

    Is there any valid reason not to consider as one of my options the following as a Home Defense shotgun?

 

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14 minutes ago, Father Kit Cool Gun Garth said:

ALL:

    Is there any valid reason not to consider as one of my options the following as a Home Defense shotgun?

 

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If I had to grab a shotgun for a social situation a '97 would be high on the list if it were a Winchester and / or if I had used it enough to trust its functionality.  Part of that, familiarity over many years.  There are newer shotguns with higher capacity and many semi autos which reduce the chance of a fumble. Some of the bull pup configurations have insane magazine capacity - an attachment someone previously provided shows the entire spectrum.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Uno Mas SASS #80082 said:

Well, I'm going to be a bit of a contrarian... anyone surprised?

Pistol Caliber Compatibility: Ruger PC Carbine Review | RECOIL OFFGRID

That's a Ruger Pistol Caliber Carbine (PCC). It was our choice for the Battle of the Bedroom/ Home Defense firearm.

A tactical shotgun is a fine weapon in certain situations; but its weight, length, recoil, relatively complex manual of arms, and most telling, limited ammo capacity, are significant handicaps. The Ruger, and other similar PCCs, is lighter, more compact, and nimble. It can easily hold 33 rounds, is very quick to reload and has only negligible recoil. Because just about all the pistol round's powder is burned in the 16" barrel, it's somewhat hearing safe (sorta) inside the home. The RPCC can also be easily equipped with the necessary weapon light, as well as a modern red dot sight. 

Our Ruger PCC is in "Lung Blower" (whata maroon) 9mm, takes all Glock 9mm double stack mags, including the cheap 33 round Happy Sticks, with a linear compensator (soon to be a suppressor), a red dot sight and a weapons light/ laser. A single point sling, extended mag release, and a second charging handle for ambidextrous operations round out the ensemble.  The Ruger is soft shooting, reliable, accurate, with a great trigger, in a basic, affordable carbine.  Ruger did their homework well.

Versatility is its key feature; as the PPC can go from point-blank to 100+ yards easily, it shares magazines with Glock CCWs, its ammo capacity helps offset the growing trend of three or more home invaders, and it's easy to move, aim and hit with. Best of all -- it really is just a jumped-up 10/22, 'Murica's beloved rimfire rifle. Most people have shot one, and if your home doesn't have a 10/22, you best correct that lack ASAP, you're missing out on a whole lotta fun. I did bring the RPPC to a new shooter event. Men and women all loved the lil' carbine. I'm told I sold two of them that day. 

Don't believe me (I know Calamity doesn't  ;) ), how 'bout Tiger McKee, a damn fine RealKinetik instructor and writer.   https://americanhandgunner.com/discover/training-tips/the-pistol-caliber-carbine-for-defense/
 

Ruger's website: https://ruger.com/products/pcCarbine/models.html

 

Take good care, 

UM


I have one of these. It sits ready as the first gun in my gun safe. 
I have to say that it has become my favorite long gun. If things got crazy this is the right gun for crazy for me. 
I have made a few mods to mine. 
Odin Works “Atlas 9” compensator

Various MCARBO internal accessories and I added a Sig Sauer “Romeo 5” red dot on a QD low profile mount. 
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It’s set up for the Glock magazines

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Pat Riot, SASS #13748
Mother… Sometimes I had technology
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You didn't have to say it four times there Pat. We understand you like your gun.

 

43 minutes ago, Father Kit Cool Gun Garth said:

Is there any valid reason not to consider as one of my options

Aside from you said $500 and that ad says right at a thousand -- no. No reason whatsoever.

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6 minutes ago, Alpo said:

You didn't have to say it four times there Pat. We understand you like your gun.

 

Aside from you said $500 and that ad says right at a thousand -- no. No reason whatsoever.


I swear, sometimes this website drives me freakin’ crazy. Low budget piece of…

 

It took me nearly 15 minutes to fix that mess. 

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Posted (edited)

phttps://palmettostatearmory.com/remington-870-hardwood-home-defense-12-ga-pump-shotgun-25559.html

 

problem solved...proven in law enforcement, military combat and by millions of Americans...most popular shotgun in the USA and easy to fix if something goes wrong, parts a plenty and customizable(if you want, its fine factory) to about any configuration you can dream of

 

image.jpeg

 

I got one of the wingmasters with wood at field and stream for about 199.99 on sale with a rem rebate. Lopped the barrel to 18.5. excellent home defense.

Edited by ORNERY OAF
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I've got 2 home defense shotguns. First is a Mossberg 590 12 gauge pump. My other is a Rossi Coach 20 gauge with hammers. You can leave it loaded, but only have to pull the hammers back to fire. 

 

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Posted (edited)

Back when I was in Law Enforcement we carried shotguns in the cars for times more firepower was in order.  Those were the last of the revolver days, so we had only 6 in the handgun and speed loaders, but they were full house .357.  A pistol caliber carbine is simply a bigger firearm shooting the same round you can shoot from a Glock (if you care for them) in this case, with the same magazine.  Other than for very specialized Military / Police Applications they don't bring anything extra to the party. Colonel Cooper and various other practical experts were of the same opinion.  If they work, and you like and use them well so be it.  I just don't see the advantage.

Edited by Rip Snorter
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1 hour ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

@Father Kit Cool Gun Garth

Nostalgia truly has no place in home defense., in my opinion.  I would reconsider that knock off 97 as an HD gun. 

 

DONE!

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1 hour ago, Rip Snorter said:

Back when I was in Law Enforcement we carried shotguns in the cars for times more firepower was in order.  Those were the last of the revolver days, so we had only 6 in the handgun and speed loaders, but they were full house .357.  A pistol caliber carbine is simply a bigger firearm shooting the same round you can shoot from a Glock (if you care for them) in this case, with the same magazine.  Other than for very specialized Military / Police Applications they don't bring anything extra to the party. Colonel Cooper and various other practical experts were of the same opinion.  If they work, and you like and use them well so be it.  I just don't see the advantage.

I will respectfully disagree. 
 

The 9mm is a proven round and out of the PCC one gains 200-300 feet per second. Having 17 to 33 rounds of 9mm plus fast reloads makes a PCC a very viable option…regardless if you like or dislike Glocks, whatever they have to do with this conversation…

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This new model from Mossberg is my choice for my home defense shotgun. Mossberg 590S with 20” barrel. Model 51602

https://www.mossberg.com/590s-51602.html

 

Quote from their website:

For the ultimate in shooting flexibility, the all-new 590S Series cycles 1.75″, 2.75″, or 3″ shells. Pick one shotshell length for specific shooting needs, or simultaneously load any combination of those shell lengths. The choice is yours with the 590S.

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Posted (edited)

For a low cost good HD shotgun if you are considering pumps, is the Mossberg Maverick. You can get the 8 shot version. has the safety under the trigger guard instead of on the back of the rcvr. And Mossberg's are good shotties.

 

 

Maverick 88 – Security

Edited by Slapshot
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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Father Kit Cool Gun Garth said:

UNO,

   Thank you for the invite.

   Ann has mentioned wanting a trip to the coast later this year.

    May take you up on it.

    We both have AR15's as well as the aforementioned shotguns, yet still interested in the pump or semi-auto version which we currently don't have.

 
Just give Calamity Kris or me an e-mule and we'll set it up. 

Edited by Uno Mas SASS #80082
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Posted (edited)

Along with the ruger  9mm carbine being a good option, but since you want a shotgun, the mossberg youth pump in 410 seems like a good option for her to me.  Small, light and easy to use.  A 410 slug or even buckshot should do the job.  

 

Personally I prefer a wilson combat 12 gauge .  It's a remington 870 doctored up.  Smooth as silk .  Night sight, side saddle for more rounds.  Light underneath.  More than 500 though.  

Edited by Trigger Mike
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6 hours ago, Slapshot said:

For a low cost good HD shotgun if you are considering pumps, is the Mossberg Maverick. You can get the 8 shot version. has the safety under the trigger guard instead of on the back of the rcvr. And Mossberg's are good shotties.

 

 

Maverick 88 – Security

IIRC the maverics have a plastic trigger assembly in addition to the crossbows safety  otherwise they were mossy 500 compatible for replacement parts. 

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Yes I think they do. But I haven't heard of a problem of failures with it. Last ones I saw was right at $200 price range.

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As previously discussed by Utah Bob and Pat Riot, the Shockwave would be pretty handy in close quarters. It holds five + one 2 3/4"ers, or nine + one Aguila mini shells (1 3/4", 5/8 oz). The adapter for the shorties snaps in and out in just a couple seconds. I don't know if the shells are available in 20 gauge or not...? I paid $341.99 at Murdoch's three years ago, but it looks like the price has gone up substantially.

 

Shockwave.thumb.jpg.f0482859918fc13b32c5c705b6de0dd5.jpg

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On 6/4/2022 at 10:01 AM, Eyesa Horg said:

Nothing quite beats the sound of a slide racking in the dark in the middle of the night as a deterrent!:lol::FlagAm:

 

One of the reasons why I would like to have purchased a Shockwave is that "racking" sound in the darkness.  A noise like that in the dark would have to send chills to the very core of any bad guy who hears it.  If I had it to do over, I would probably have gotten the Shockwave instead of the Remington V3 Tac-13.  Saved a little money, too... could have bought a laser sight and maybe a nightlight with the difference.

 

Regarding my Remington (or any other of the non-NFA shotguns), some of my friends have asked me if the short shotguns can be legally carried with a weapon's permit (not that I would want to).  I did some research on this, and the answer in most states is an emphatic "NO".   For some dumb reason, most states do not recognize the non-NFA guns as firearms as described in their "carry laws".  Go figger.

 

BTW, I think everybody here would agree on this:  Yard-long Johnson looks dang formidable with that shotgun, don't he?  I'd hate to mess with him, even without the gun.

 

A generic pic of the Remington V3 Tac-13:

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Remington 870 Youth model 24 inch barrel with choke tubes in 20 gauge.

Loaded with 1 1/8 oz. number 6 shot in 3 inch hulls ...

 

Jabez Cowboy

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If you wouldn't shoot a deer with it dint load it in a defense shotgun unless it's all you got left 

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12 hours ago, Three Foot Johnson said:

As previously discussed by Utah Bob and Pat Riot, the Shockwave would be pretty handy in close quarters. It holds five + one 2 3/4"ers, or nine + one Aguila mini shells (1 3/4", 5/8 oz). The adapter for the shorties snaps in and out in just a couple seconds. I don't know if the shells are available in 20 gauge or not...? I paid $341.99 at Murdoch's three years ago, but it looks like the price has gone up substantially.

 

Shockwave.thumb.jpg.f0482859918fc13b32c5c705b6de0dd5.jpg

I am planning to get a Shockwave when I move back to the USA.

 

 

By the way, if we ever meet and you look at me like that with a Shockwave in hand I am beatin' feet the heck out of  there. :lol:

 

When my daughter was dating I used to ask her male friends how fast they could run the 12 gauge. I pretty much gave them the same look as I said it.:D

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Ive got a 930 miculek gun that is great for fun but I wouldnt trust my life to it as it works MOST of the time. My 870 works everytime, all the time. 

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On 6/4/2022 at 10:57 AM, Father Kit Cool Gun Garth said:

 

@Patagonia Pete:

Had not considered the "pistol grip" shorty shotguns.

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Most appear to be in lever action which may be an issue for the wife.
Will keep them in mind though for their shortness of overall length.
If considered,  Ann will have to make that decision.

first stop if considering pistol grip only (PGO) shotguns should be the demonstrated concepts youtube page.  he shows how and why to apply a PGO shotgun and what accessories make them very useful, (light, dot and recoil strap)  he also does training in Colorado if you can afford to go check it out, but his videos are pretty straight forward on his technique.  Forgotten weapons just did a vid backtracking some of the smack talk they gave the shockwave when it came out after reviewing the demonstrated concepts application and technique.  

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On 6/4/2022 at 9:12 AM, Utah Bob #35998 said:

Mossberg Shockwave

402F362E-B8DB-4538-AC12-195246E8C23A.jpeg

Or the same in Remington TAC14.  I do like the Mossberg strap on the forearm which Remington lacks.  Very awesome firepower with Aquilla short shotshells.

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On 6/4/2022 at 11:09 AM, Alpo said:

Model 97s and Model 12s show up quite frequently in the classifieds. I've got a 97 with a 30-inch barrel. If I absolutely felt I needed to have a 97 Riot gun, I've got a hacksaw.

 

People talk about pump guns, and I will admit that the one leaning against my bedroom wall is an Ithaca 37.

 

But the desired outcome of this is not to have a dead body in the hallway. Makes a hell of a mess, and I'm sure it would be quite loud. If I found someone coming down my hallway at night, I will be quite happy for him to look at my gun and decide he wants to be somewhere else, and turned around and hauled ass.

 

While someone suddenly discovering a 3/4 inch pipe pointed in their face would probably discourage them from continuing, a SxS 12 gauge is about the scariest thing I can think of encountering in someone else's house in the middle of the night.

 

And if I had the need to shoot someone with my twice-barreled 12 gauge, if I ain't hit him after two there's a problem. And that 5-to-20-round pump gun probably won't help.

 

If the Dalton gang, or the wild bunch, or the James Younger gang broke into my house, I can see needing many shells in my defense gun. But I expect that a burglar is going to be one person. And if it is more than one person, I expected blowing a large hole through the first one would make the second or third one leave quickly.

 

The point of that long winded explanation, is it I would stay with the double barrel that you've already got.

 

Amazing what you can do with a hacksaw.

 

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My dedicated home defense shotgun is a Maverick 88, with the pistol grip and adjustable stock. I have it set up with Esstac shotgun cards and a single point sling. (still need to add a decent light) So far it seems like a nice, solid pump gun, and the price was definitely right.

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On 6/5/2022 at 12:11 PM, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

I will respectfully disagree. 
 

The 9mm is a proven round and out of the PCC one gains 200-300 feet per second. Having 17 to 33 rounds of 9mm plus fast reloads makes a PCC a very viable option…regardless if you like or dislike Glocks, whatever they have to do with this conversation…

 

With all due respect to Col. Cooper and other "experts," I will add that the PCC, like the AR platform, gives additional advantages as well. Possibly the most important for many is having less recoil than a shotgun for smaller framed or more frail shooters. If that small frail shooter is being confronted by multiple home invaders, yet disables themselves with their first shot fired from a 12 gauge, all is for naught. While not as easy to adjust as an AR, the Ruger PCC can be adjusted to fit smaller shooters via spacers at the rear of the stock. Accuracy is always going to be better with a long gun than a handgun. Four points of contact-shoulder, cheek, two hands-spread out over the length of the firearm, pulling it into the shoulder, along with a longer sight radius (assuming no red dot) makes it much more accurate than a pistol at arms length. It is also less fatiguing, and easier to go into the low ready.

 

So, I'm with you @Pat Riot, SASS #13748 and I will respectfully disagree as well. Considering her size, I would prefer Mrs. Doc opt for my Ruger PC9 over a shotgun any day of the week, regardless of the "experts."

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