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1 hour ago, Texas Red said:

I’ve been on the outlook for a 1895 Cowboy in 45-70 for quite awhile.  Maybe should wait for Ruger with theirs

 

Where are you located, I have two.

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Been wanting a Winchester Short Rifle 44-40 for a long time, but cannot find them - if the Ruglin comes out first....oh wait, probably not in 44-40.....n'er mind :D

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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3 hours ago, Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L said:

Been wanting a Winchester Short Rifle 44-40 for a long time, but cannot find them - if the Ruglin comes out first....oh wait, probably not in 44-40.....n'er mind :D

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

Ruger has been fairly alert to their customer's wants....send them a PM. Can't hurt.

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Quote

Inherited a lot of equipment that needs additional maintenance

Sounds like the Marlin line was on its last legs like dying flower on the stem ... ready to die and fall off

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How can Ruger expect different results if they hire the same techs and engineers that created the present 

situation to begin with.

 

..........Widder

 

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1 hour ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

How can Ruger expect different results if they hire the same techs and engineers that created the present 

situation to begin with.

 

..........Widder

 

Maybe  Rugers positive manufacturing culture will guide those techs and engineers to excell rather than just hang on in a survival mode that has been mentioned in the last days of old Remington ownership. It’s doubtful they went to work with mediocrity as their goal on a regular basis. Working for a successful employer really serves to boost moral and quality IMO. 
Hopefully the Marlin product line will show improvement when relaunched! :)

 

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5 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

How can Ruger expect different results if they hire the same techs and engineers that created the present 

situation to begin with.

 

..........Widder

 

The way I interpreted the article was that Remington inherited old, dilapidated equipment but did/would not bring the workers that could still make it reasonably function.  When this equipment was set up in the new facility it produced bad guns, which Remington then had to go out and purchase new/modern equipment to make the guns.  After the new equipment was purchased and set up, I thought the consensus on the wire was that quality was improved.

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Well...the logical conclusion is that a lot of folks are expecting really good things to happen with the Marlin rifles, that will be coming out. Many have already seen, and been witness to, the less-than-quality-product of the Marlin's, that have been produced by the former Remington company. Ruger has a lot to live up to, and, hopefully, they can. Most of us live in other States, but in this instance, we that love the Marlin's are all "from Missouri". 

It's a wait and see, thing, right now. There are extremely high expectations, and there are still a lot of folks that have older Marlin's, myself included, that can look at what was...and thus what we expect the new one to be. There are still lots of older Marlin's out there, to set the standard. 

Hey....no pressure Ruger....right??? (meanwhile, another bird dog flew over). 

We ae rooting for you, Ruger. If anyone can do this right, you can. Question is now...will you? I guess we will see. 

 

 

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On 2/25/2021 at 11:07 PM, Chief Rick said:

The way I interpreted the article was that Remington inherited old, dilapidated equipment but did/would not bring the workers that could still make it reasonably function.  When this equipment was set up in the new facility it produced bad guns, which Remington then had to go out and purchase new/modern equipment to make the guns.  After the new equipment was purchased and set up, I thought the consensus on the wire was that quality was improved.

The vulture capitalist that owned Remington knew they were buying knackered tooling, iffy quality parts, the name & intellectual property from JM.  The tooling & machine tools were sold as scrap.  The intellectual property didn't include CAD/CAM files; because, JM had never upgraded their manufacturing into the 1980's.   The JM dwg's had lots of redlines.  While Remington engineers created CAD dwg's from the JM redlines Remington attempted to turn the iffy parts into rifles they could sell.   We all know that didn't turn out to be a good business decision.   It took a couple of years for Remington to create a modern manufacturing system to make Marlin rifles.  Without this there is noway to make Marlin rifles that customers will buy in sufficient numbers to make a profit. 

The reason Remington Outdoors failed is in 2007 Cerberus Capital Management, a vulture capitalist firm, acquired Remington.  CCM extracted their profit plus money they borrowed to buy Remington from Freedom Group which was created to own Remington & latter acquisitions.  This saddled the company which eventually became Remington Outdoors with debt that wasn't sustainable even during record industry sales during the BO administration.

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Hmmm, I wonder if Ruger is going to put coil springs in their new Marlins.  Now this could get interest’ in

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1 hour ago, Tequila Shooter said:

Hmmm, I wonder if Ruger is going to put coil springs in their new Marlins.  Now this could get interest’ in

?? Ya got me wondering.  What spring do you mean ?? The hammer spring was already a coil spring.   I'm Curious .

Rex :D

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On 2/25/2021 at 7:28 PM, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

How can Ruger expect different results if they hire the same techs and engineers that created the present 

situation to begin with.

 

..........Widder

 

How can the voters expect different results if they elect the same Congressmen and Senators that created the present 

situation to begin with?:D

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10 hours ago, Rex M Rugers #6621 said:

?? Ya got me wondering.  What spring do you mean ?? The hammer spring was already a coil spring.   I'm Curious .

Rex :D

 

That’s what I meant, I guess I should’ve been clearer.  NMV which is supposed to be their take on the SAA has coil instead of flat springs.  The Marlin already has coil spring, I wonder if they’ll change that to a flat spring.  Sorry it was a bad joke.

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On 2/25/2021 at 8:28 PM, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

How can Ruger expect different results if they hire the same techs and engineers that created the present 

situation to begin with.

 

..........Widder

 

Having worked for a large manufacturer for 38 years I can say  techs and engineers are not always allowed to act in the best interest of the product or the customers. Most new managers in the company I worked for had no interest in real quality as they drove to cut expenses at all costs in their pursuit of bonuses. 

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Just a few thoughts on the emergence of a new and improved RugLIn or an expanded Margler product line...

 

Marlin built a lot of guns over along period of time with minimal design changes.  Remlins hit the market with the same product design - albeit a decreased product quality.  I am going to keep my expectation management at a very guarded level for quite a few reasons.

 

- Ruger builds guns.  They have created and discontinued quite a few products in their day.  They didn't design 1911s but they build them.  They didn't design the AR platform but they are building AR platform rifles and pistols.   The didn't design the Single Action Army - but those Vaqueros sure do look like SAA pistols.   They have never (that I am aware of) gone to market with a Cowby-style lever action rifle.   If they wanted to put Ruger innovation into a redesigned cowboy gun, they could have done it without spending 28 million dollars on the Marlin name.   They could have easily borrowed a design just like they have with their Vaqueros, 1911, and AR15s.   My expectations that they will redesign, enhance, improve or innovate the current design of the marlin 336 or 1894/1895 series rifles remains low unless they plan on completely consuming Marlin and transforming the Marlin line into a true extension of Sturm Ruger.

 

- People like Marlins - good marlins.  They didnt like Remlins and probably wouldn't like Ruglins either.   Ruger knows that and will most likely just sell good old fashioned Marlins since it doesn't 'copete' with any Ruger branded product lines.  Any design changes to the product line will turn it into a Ruglin and nobody wants that. 

 

- What if they just "kill" Marlin branding and badge everything as a Ruger?   Would people (cowboys) want to buy a full set of ruger CAS guns?   I would.

 

- It is foolish to pretend that the current political landscape is not having an impact on the firearms industry.  Politicians have openly declared that they want to pass legislation that will allow gun manufacturers to be held liable for crimes committed with their products.   Those same politicians are demanding mocrostamping, limits to online sales of parts and accessories, and all sorts of other restrictions.   Even if such Federal legislation is halted, there are many states that will still pursue those matters (like California).  Here is a little something from Rugers website that addresses design changes to certain firearms and the impacts on states that are hostile to your 2nd Amendment right to bear arms as well as states that are comfortable violating your 5th Amendment right to own private property:

 

...the California Department of Justice (CADOJ) requires us to submit firearms for re-testing if we make any change to the design, however small. If we change the weight, dimensions, or materials of a part, then that is a change that CADOJ says requires re-testing. As part of Ruger's program of continuous improvement, we routinely make changes and enhancements to our products. Any firearm that is re-tested must now incorporate microstamping technology (described in another FAQ). As this is not feasible, we cannot resubmit any pistols after we have made a change, and the pistol is dropped from the Roster by operation of law.

 

This may only apply to pistols at the time it was posted to Rugers website - but the political landscape is in flux - i don't expect Ruger to invest money modifying firearms that may very well be limited in the locations where they can be sold should the current wave of anti-gun/anti-property ownership laws continue to swell.

 

Like I said, I'll be happy just seeing a quality Marlin rifle that can pair with a set of Vaqueros at some random CAS match in the not so distant future.

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1 hour ago, Chuck Steak said:

They have never (that I am aware of) gone to market with a Cowby-style lever action rifle. 

I'm not old enough to "Know" this, but I heard Ruger used to make Levers and they were a complete flop.  I think it was bad enough that Ruger stayed away from the market all this time because their name was mud when it came to levers, in their case, I think they need the brand recognition of Marlin just to reintroduce a lever, even if it is a completely Ruger designed gun, which I don't think it will be, but I'm still too young to know...  Henry at least has shown that it's feasible to make Levers in America and have a product line almost completely exclusive of anything else.  I think the Marlin brand will be a good patch in the hole that Ruger had in their product line.

Edited by El CupAJoe
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The '96 series were the Ruger lever guns - think 10/22 or Model-44 but lever action instead of semi-auto with a production run of about 10 years.  They never produced a cowboy style lever gun.

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3 hours ago, El CupAJoe said:

I'm not old enough to "Know" this, but I heard Ruger used to make Levers and they were a complete flop.  I think it was bad enough that Ruger stayed away from the market all this time because their name was mud when it came to levers, in their case, I think they need the brand recognition of Marlin just to reintroduce a lever, even if it is a completely Ruger designed gun, which I don't think it will be, but I'm still too young to know...  Henry at least has shown that it's feasible to make Levers in America and have a product line almost completely exclusive of anything else.  I think the Marlin brand will be a good patch in the hole that Ruger had in their product line.

Your correct on the you don’t know. It wasn’t a traditional lever gun from the beginning, but more futuristic like the Winchester 88! ;)
 

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4 minutes ago, Captain Clark said:

Your correct on the you don’t know. It wasn’t a traditional lever gun from the beginning, but more futuristic like the Winchester 88! ;)
 

I've personally loved every Ruger I've had. I just traded away my last Ruger, a 77/357 a couple weeks back for a Rossi 92... don't need 2 .357 long guns and couldn't afford to buy the Rossi outright.  I've had an LCR, SP101, Security Six in addition to the 77.

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@J.D. Daily made some good observations about the production issues Remington had to deal with.

 

That said, and for what it's worth, I bought a Marlin 336 in 1971.  About 2002 I bought a Model 94, and a second about 2005.  In 2018 I bought my son a Remington built Model 95 Cowboy .45-70.  

 

Of these four rifles the only one that had any mechanical issue was the 1971 built 336; from the day it was purchased it had frequent FTF's that required gunsmithing to correct.  The 94's both functioned flawlessly, as has my son's 95.  

 

I've personally never seen, but have heard and read a number of "horror stories" about earlier Remington produced models.  But, as Mr Daily suggested, converting to CAD/CAM processes (long overdue, no matter who builds 'em) has allowed the production of what may actually be the finest quality Marlins yet.  Now, when I was shopping for my son's rifle, I did select the best of three that I looked at - the wood seemed to be nicer than the other two. 

 

Note that I did not mention metal finish; even my rifle purchased fifty years ago had a finish that was no better than the new ones.  This is one area Ruger might improve.  

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Man, Ruger loves stainless steel. I would love a carbine in stainless. Not necessarily for CAS, but just because I would love a stainless lever action carbine. 

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