Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

Are we seeing the start of a mass exodus


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, 45 Dragoon said:

Thanks McCandless!!  I was referring mostly to "traditional cowboy stuff" since Rugers are not.  Just trying to get to an "even playing field" and maintain a living (to the chagrin of others apparently).

 

Glad everything is running as they should!!! 

 

Mike

 

I used those ROA's to shoot CLEAN at the SC State Match in Nov.   Doing that with Cap n' Ball is was always a challenge.  

Edited by McCandless
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 106
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

The last "great exodus" took place after the 08 Crash.  Large numbers of folks just didn't come back.  This current unpleasantness will cause others to have "other" priorities.  Us "die-hards" just wo

Just before all this madness started I took a stupid fall on my front porch that damned near killed me (almost 60 days in the hospital).  About the time I started to reach the point where I could stan

How the heck did you get out so cheap?!

Posted Images

5 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Then you are lucky. I wouldn’t call it dogging so much as “friendly advice”. A lot of it and often...

I shoot a large loop Winchester 94 at times, a Chaparral 73 regularly, and a full length Triumph on occasion.  The only time I've ever been harassed is when I shoot '51 Navies and that is by a suppository shooter.:)

  • Haha 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

Maybe it’s a regional thing, or maybe I live in a bubble, but in my 11 years of SASS, I’ve not seen or heard someone dog another shooter for their equipment. The only discussion about those things occurs is because the shooter asked. 
 

 

 

My wife experienced it first hand.  She was shooting a stainless steel 92 and several people said she needed to ditch it for a 94 Marlin. One person just wouldn't let it go and pulled her aside after the match to continue knocking my wife's choice of rifle. Then I was berated for buying her a 92 when what she really needed was a 94. 

My wife was getting into B-Western and wanted all her firearms to be shiny. She picked out that particular 92 for that reason. 

 

BTW

I've also listened to the peanut gallery complain about slow shooters. Got so fed up that rather than make a scene I voted with my feet. 

 

A lot of SASS shooters belittle NCOWS but I have found NCOWS shooters to be a lot less judgmental.

 

 I'm going to join Pat in the Saloon before I type something that gets me a time out.

 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
  • Sad 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I started late in life shooting Cowboy. I was never much for guns (had a 10/22 and O/U shotgun) but rarely used them and certainly didn't reload for the shotgun. So I never learned to reload (didn't want to try it on my own and blow my hand off) and I just buy my loaded ammo wherever I can find it. The club I shoot with has been shut down since April or May  but I kept target practicing in the woods nearby. I realized I was running low on ammo and when I went looking there just wasn't any to be had (I shoot 38/357 pistols and rifle). That caused me to stop  target practice so I'd have some ammo left when our club started up again. I shoot Elder Statesman and miss all the fun that Cowboy shooting offers. I will be back once matches are going again and will definitely stock up on ammo for the next time things get tight.

Link to post
Share on other sites

".... I shoot Elder Statesman and miss all the fun that Cowboy shooting offers. I will be back once matches are going again and will definitely stock up on ammo for the next time things get tight...." 

 

glad to hear it , if the opportunity presents would be proud to join you , you might have to travel tho as i refuse to visit the rellies in WA & OR right now 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Don’t we use a timer for CAS? Why is that I wonder?

 

I’m shocked, shocked I tell you, to discover that people competing in a sport where the fastest shooter wins are actually..........trying to shoot fast. 
 

What’s next? People trying to score touchdowns in football? NASCAR drivers trying to drive fast?

  • Like 3
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

My wife experienced it first hand.  She was shooting a stainless steel 92 and several people said she needed to ditch it for a 94 Marlin. One person just wouldn't let it go and pulled her aside after the match to continue knocking my wife's choice of rifle. Then I was berated for buying her a 92 when what she really needed was a 94. 

My wife was getting into B-Western and wanted all her firearms to be shiny. She picked out that particular 92 for that reason. 

 

BTW

I've also listened to the peanut gallery complain about slow shooters. Got so fed up that rather than make a scene I voted with my feet. 

 

A lot of SASS shooters belittle NCOWS but I have found NCOWS shooters to be a lot less judgmental.

 

 I'm going to join Pat in the Saloon before I type something that gets me a time out.

 

This was truly shameful behavior.  People play this game for all sorts of reasons and everyone should feel welcome!  Who gives a rat's ass if you shoot slow, for Pete's sake?  IJAFG!

 

Dave, I'm sorry this happened to you and your wife.

Possum

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 said:

People play this game for all sorts of reasons and everyone should feel welcome!  Who gives a rat's ass if you shoot slow, for Pete's sake?  IJAFG!

Possum

 

I can see we‘re going to have a hoot at Santa Fe next month.  I can hear the TO now, “get the hour glass out Tequila Shooter is comin’ up”. B) :ph34r:

  • Haha 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Tequila Shooter said:

 

I can see we‘re going to have a hoot at Santa Fe next month.  I can hear the TO now, “get the hour glass out Tequila Shooter is comin’ up”. B) :ph34r:

Yes.  This is a VERY fun match!  I look forward to seeing you there.

Possum

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

A lot of people have forgotten or haven't been around long enough to know that it wasn't that many years ago your only options for pistols were Original Colts or Rugers. The few Italian clones were of such poor quality that people shied away from them. The go to rifle's were 92 Winchesters and 94 Marlins. The 73 only became popular when a gunsmith figured out how to short stroke it.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/12/2020 at 7:12 AM, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Cowboys in the Old West didn’t “slick up” their guns unless it was in adornments.  

We AINT "Cowboys" in the historical sense of the word - carrying a single firearm in a floppy holster and shooting it once in a blue moon to dispatch a pest or put down an animal.

We are hired guns, gunfighters, bounty hunters, lawmen and bad guys involved in more "gunfights" than ANY person in the old west.  And you can bet your very last dollar - anyone involved in that much shooting would have owned AND SLICKED UP the BEST possible tools available to them.

On 12/12/2020 at 7:12 AM, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

This fascination with being fast.
 

Go to a club you rarely or have never gone to and drag a Henry or a Winchester 94 or perhaps a long barreled Stevens 311 shotgun up to the loading table and watch and listen to what happens.
Then shoot the stage slow. 

 

People do not take SASS or CAS seriously any longer. 

If we are going to attract new shooters in a “tactical world” we need to update the SASS “persona”.

Somehow I cannot see how shooting sub par equipment, and then doing it slowly would encourage anyone to take CAS seriously.

 

Seems to me doing so just reinforces the stereotype that CAS is just old, usually fat folks, shooting slowly - more interested in playing dress up and attending a social event than participating in a legitimate timed competition.

 

Whether "it turns you off" or not - the inclusion of a TIMER makes the focus (and yes, fascination) all about speed.

 

I agree that SASS needs to look at its persona to draw new shooters:

 

By shedding its immovable reverence to amateur status/ eschewing sponsorship (the element of professionalism brings in money - gets attention and gets written about). 

Many sports have a Pro/ Am mixture that does not harm anything but brings TV, radio, magazine and online attention to the event.

 

By revisiting (the poor decision of) marketing the game as a social event over a competitive event.

 

By promotion that plays up the competition aspect of the games and minimizes marketing the dress up/ costuming aspect (the very part that turns off competitors from other disciplines).

 

By joining forces with other disciplines/ events that MAY have some crossover appeal.  Multiple events held on the same grounds increases our odds for notice and spectators.

Fast Draw events (not mixed) but held in conjunction with CAS.

Melodrama events/ competitions held in conjunction with CAS.

Western Arts events held in conjunction with CAS.

Living history encampments held in conjunction with CAS.

Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

We AINT "Cowboys" in the historical sense of the word - carrying a single firearm in a floppy holster and shooting it once in a blue moon to dispatch a pest or put down an animal.

We are hired guns, gunfighters, bounty hunters, lawmen and bad guys involved in more "gunfights" than ANY person in the old west.  And you can bet your very last dollar - anyone involved in that much shooting would have owned AND SLICKED UP the BEST possible tools available to them.

Somehow I cannot see how shooting sub par equipment, and then doing it slowly would encourage anyone to take CAS seriously.

 

Seems to me doing so just reinforces the stereotype that CAS is just old, usually fat folks, shooting slowly - more interested in playing dress up and attending a social event than participating in a legitimate timed competition.

 

Whether "it turns you off" or not - the inclusion of a TIMER makes the focus (and yes, fascination) all about speed.

 

I agree that SASS needs to look at its persona to draw new shooters:

 

By shedding its immovable reverence to amateur status/ eschewing sponsorship (the element of professionalism brings in money - gets attention and gets written about). 

Many sports have a Pro/ Am mixture that does not harm anything but brings TV, radio, magazine and online attention to the event.

 

By revisiting (the poor decision of) marketing the game as a social event over a competitive event.

 

By promotion that plays up the competition aspect of the games and minimizes marketing the dress up/ costuming aspect (the very part that turns off competitors from other disciplines).

 

By joining forces with other disciplines/ events that MAY have some crossover appeal.  Multiple events held on the same grounds increases our odds for notice and spectators.

Fast Draw events (not mixed) but held in conjunction with CAS.

Melodrama events/ competitions held in conjunction with CAS.

Western Arts events held in conjunction with CAS.

Living history encampments held in conjunction with CAS.

Your opinions have merit. I disagree, but they have merit. SASS needs to do something to promote CAS or I fear it will fade away. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Eliphalet R. Moderator said:

 

 

Sedalia Dave, I'm truly sorry that y'all ran into a person like that.  There are quite a number of people using '92s with the Steve's Guns spring kits and sights that are doing just fine.

 

Thanks

 

Happened a couple years after we started. Since then we have had the pleasure to shoot with lots of fine folks. However we still encounter those that think there is only one way to do this and if your idea of fun doesn't align with theirs they make sure you are aware of it. 

 

Our way of dealing with it is to vote with our feet. We are fortunate enough to have plenty of options. 

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

Thanks

 

Happened a couple years after we started. Since then we have had the pleasure to shoot with lots of fine folks. However we still encounter those that think there is only one way to do this and if your idea of fun doesn't align with theirs they make sure you are aware of it. 

 

Our way of dealing with it is to vote with our feet. We are fortunate enough to have plenty of options. 

 

 

You are far kinder than I would have been had my wife been subjected to such treatment.

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, DeaconKC said:

You are far kinder than I would have been had my wife been subjected to such treatment.

 

We were just starting and it was the first time we had shot at that particular club. Have learned the hard way that when you are the outsider making a scene never works to your advantage. Now that I have been doing this for several years and am no longer an outsider it'll never happen again. 

 

BTW The primary offender was the MDs spouse.

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

I agree that SASS needs to look at its 

By promotion that plays up the competition aspect of the games and minimizes marketing the dress up/ costuming aspect (the very part that turns off competitors from other disciplines).

For me the costuming is what sets us apart from all the others. Without it, I might as well join any of the other shooting sports that are distinguished only by the guns used. There are too many of them and I don’t give a crap about attracting them if they push back against the costumes. Sooner or later it’s not CAS anymore as the cowboy part has been neutered. 
 

I’d rather sell my guns and go back to trap and skeet. 

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

After shooting IDPA and other sports, CAS is refreshing because of the fun spirit over 3 gun or others. I spent too many years working a job where I did carry a duty weapon for the most serious reasons. If CAS doesn't want to use that term, GREAT! I have my fun escape. And dressing up as a cowboy, circuit rider or old time banker is silly, but so what? I'm having fun! As I told the guys Saturday, mu first goal is to shoot clean stages and grin while I'm doing it. I already have trained on clearing rooms, etc, that is now behind me. Shooting a new stage over a wagon or through the windows of a stable and laughing with nice people is what has drawn me to this.

  • Like 7
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, DeaconKC said:

After shooting IDPA and other sports, CAS is refreshing because of the fun spirit over 3 gun or others. I spent too many years working a job where I did carry a duty weapon for the most serious reasons. If CAS doesn't want to use that term, GREAT! I have my fun escape. And dressing up as a cowboy, circuit rider or old time banker is silly, but so what? I'm having fun! As I told the guys Saturday, mu first goal is to shoot clean stages and grin while I'm doing it. I already have trained on clearing rooms, etc, that is now behind me. Shooting a new stage over a wagon or through the windows of a stable and laughing with nice people is what has drawn me to this.

 

If you are ever in my neck of the woods you need to come shoot NCOWS with me. A really good friend who happens to be a former LEO loves it. BTW We have have been accused of many things, but taking ourselves too seriously isn't one of them. ;)

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

If you are ever in my neck of the woods you need to come shoot NCOWS with me. A really good friend who happens to be a former LEO loves it. BTW We have have been accused of many things, but taking ourselves too seriously isn't one of them. ;)

Where at in Texas?

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Your opinions have merit. I disagree, but they have merit. SASS needs to do something to promote CAS or I fear it will fade away. 

They've been talking about a marketing campaign for several years. It's never come to fruition. Most companies rebrand every 7-10 years. SASS hasn't changed anything up in my 25 years of shooting. They need to find a reputable marketing group and invest in the future. 

Even the folks that have been shooting for many years need to be reenergized now and then. 

.

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

With all the social media now a days I don't think a marketing campaign \ blitz would be all that expensive. I think if the really pushed it on all the social media platforms it would be a inexpensive way to bring cas to the masses and probably get some new shooters.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

We were just starting and it was the first time we had shot at that particular club. Have learned the hard way that when you are the outsider making a scene never works to your advantage. Now that I have been doing this for several years and am no longer an outsider it'll never happen again. 

BTW The primary offender was the MDs spouse.

Some folks attempts at "help" falls a little short of their intent.  (just giving them the "benefit of doubt")... ;)

 

We all have had ideas about spreading the word and enjoyment of SASS... Some better'n others, but... the BEST way to implement them is to take the bull by the horns and just DO IT!  Expecting "SASS" to do it all is unrealistic.  Back when our club started... (the 2nd club in Texas), I had the sports writers for the two largest area newspapers file articles about us... one declined to publish, and the one that did was completely unexpected... being of a more "liberal" bent!  We manned tables at gun shows, and simply passing out flyers as a few of us wandered around the same.  For several years we had our awards at very public venues... Where being dressed in our various outfits drew the curious... now I don't know if we ever garnered a single shooter, but lots of questions were asked and answered.

 

We are SASS, so expecting HQ to do it all is simply passin' the buck.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Griff said:

We are SASS, so expecting HQ to do it all is simply passin' the buck.  

 

We don't expect them to do it all, but from what most of us can see HQ isn't doing anything. 

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

As time goes on, we've lost a good number of pards and pardettes to father time. I don't believe the newcomers are enough to counter balance this natural loss. Factor in range restrictions, reloading and ammo supply issues, and Covid financial impacts among other reasons, numbers do appear to be down currently. These things will ease over time, but how the game will bounce back is an unknown. The wife and I will continue to shoot CAS matches as long as we are able and as long as we have facilities to shoot at because it is fun and we enjoy the people. 

 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

Marketing is extremely expensive and will result in large increases in dues. After the last kerfuffle on this forum over a relatively small dues increase, I wonder how many will support that?

Apparently, back in the late 1900's there was enough money for marketing with fewer members and lower dues. We cannot stay afloat without growth. Something must be done to increase membership numbers. The "business as usual" concept isn't working. CAS will continue regardless of SASS's future, we all like to get together and shoot.

The owners of SASS need to either give it up or reorganize, we've all been waiting for too long. I truly enjoy SASS and I'm thankful for the many years of enjoyment. However, it's not up to the members, it's up to the owners to invest and grow the game. They make the money, therefore they make the financial decisions. Currently, SASS is on a downturn and has been for several years. They know it, numbers don't lie. Something must be done or we'll just become a bunch of splinter groups with no true governing body.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

The reorganization was likely in the works for a while now, but I believe it began in earnest this year.  I would not be surprised if they had planned some form of announcement at the 2020 EOT before it was cancelled, but had to wait until the July 2020 Chronicle to announce the Wild Bunch's retirement and the October 2020 Chronicle to announce the new Advisory Board and changes to the Championship Matches.

 

One could argue forever about what initiated the slide, but I suspect it was a combination of many things.  From the purchase of Founders Ranch, to the elimination of the monthly Cowboy Chronicle, to the increase in the dues, to the aging of a majority of our members, to the poor economy, to the threat of an "assault weapons ban that convinced people to spend 10 years worth of "Gun Money" in a matter of months on guns that still likely haven't shot, and on and on.  In hindsight, at each and every point, had a different decision been made the curve would have changed, up or down can always be debated, but it would have changed.  I have my personal opinion as to the leading two points, and I am sure you and everyone else have their equally valid opinions as well.

 

For now, I think that we as members (and in some cases Match Directors) just need to keep doing our job, trying to recruit more shooters, and making the effort to contact those shooters who may have fallen by the wayside.  We used to do an Alumni match every year and get a few of the long-timers to come back, but it was typically only for that one match, they didn't keep coming back.  Life changes, and we change with it, voluntarily or involuntarily, we change.

 

For the future, my hope is that the Misty and the new Advisory Board take a fresh look at SASS and find a way through the problems that exist.  Membership recruitment has been, and likely will remain, a local issue but SASS could do a lot to improve that process.  I would love to see them bring back a monthly Chronicle, more like the old newspaper version, as that was one of the best marketing tools they ever had.  People would read them, leave them laying around somewhere for another person, or give them away to prospective new members.  I cannot count the number of times I was reading that paper when someone asked me what the Cowboy Chronicle was all about.  The new Chronicle just looks like every other magazine out there.

 

Regardless, as you noted, CAS will likely survive at the local level, but it would certainly miss having SASS ride point.

Edited by Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L
Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Dirty Dutch Brody said:

With all the social media now a days I don't think a marketing campaign \ blitz would be all that expensive. I think if the really pushed it on all the social media platforms it would be a inexpensive way to bring cas to the masses and probably get some new shooters.

I don't think the masses will be able to look at their phones and shoot at the same time.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Signs of health also exist.  At the last Hole In The Wall match there were six new shooters.  Most were under 40.  A couple of them were under 14.

 

Any game needs a farm team!

 

Cheers,

FJT

Edited by Frederick Jackson Turner
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Frederick Jackson Turner said:

Signs of health also exist.  At the last Hole In The Wall match there were six new shooters.  Most were under 40.  A couple of them were under 14.

 

Any game needs a farm team!

 

Cheers,

FJT

 

The biggest joy I get from SASS is watching the excitement of a new shooter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.