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The decision has been made to attend Winter Range in a couple months and Im going to participate in my first side match, Long Range Rifle pistol caliber. I'll be shooting my 24" Miroku 1873 .357 and was thinking of upgrading it with a tang sight. I'm wondering if there is any advantage in a tang sight or if I should just cowboy up and shoot the stock sights? Any advice or input is welcome. Thanks!

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The .357 drops about an inch at 50 yards and 4 inches at 100 yards.

 

Before adding a tang sight, I would test the gun with the ammo you plan to use and see how it shoots with the post and notch.

 

The tang would not help me, my eyes will no longer focus up close so it would be blurrier than the stock rear sight. The cool factor tempted me to add one to my rifle anyway. I'm good to 100 yards with post and notch; not fast, just good.

 

So the things I would evaluate:

- Can you see the rear tang well enough to get a benefit? (I can't)*

- Do you have time (and ammo) to practice with it to see if there is a benefit? (I sorta did)*

- If it does not help you, will you still  like how it looks on your rifle? (I would)

 

 * I switched from the AR to an AK in 3 gun because of the sights. At some point, I might redo a set of AR sights, rear sight needs to go way forward.

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55 minutes ago, John Kloehr said:

The .357 drops about an inch at 50 yards and 4 inches at 100 yards.

 

Before adding a tang sight, I would test the gun with the ammo you plan to use and see how it shoots with the post and notch.

 

The tang would not help me, my eyes will no longer focus up close so it would be blurrier than the stock rear sight. The cool factor tempted me to add one to my rifle anyway. I'm good to 100 yards with post and notch; not fast, just good.

 

So the things I would evaluate:

- Can you see the rear tang well enough to get a benefit? (I can't)*

- Do you have time (and ammo) to practice with it to see if there is a benefit? (I sorta did)*

- If it does not help you, will you still  like how it looks on your rifle? (I would)

 

 * I switched from the AR to an AK in 3 gun because of the sights. At some point, I might redo a set of AR sights, rear sight needs to go way forward.

 

You are using a tang sight incorrectly. Here is an excellent tutorial on how to properly use tang sights.

 

HOW TO USE TANG TYPE REAR SIGHTS AND INSERT TYPE FRONT SIGHTS

 

Properly used, peep style tang sights are good for MOA accuracy to well beyond 1000 yards. Something a post and notch will never be able to do.

 

 

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The other thing to be aware of - those drop figures quoted above are for factory velocity loads.  Your cowboy loads WILL DROP MORE.  Many competitors in that 10 shot side match will load a few rounds for the event up around factory velocity.  Then, whatever sight you like, you will have a much easier time getting your gun sighted in, and less windage drift too.

 

Good luck, GJ

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21 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

Here is an excellent tutorial on how to properly use tang sights.

 

HOW TO USE TANG TYPE REAR SIGHTS AND INSERT TYPE FRONT SIGHTS

 

Thanks, very interesting article!

 

Something to add: your eye, respectively your pupil is also an adjustable aperture. The more it's closed, the more depth of focus you have, and that's what you want. Now, the size of our two pupils are linked. If you close one eye and reduce its light, the other pupil opens up. That's one reason to leave both eyes open while shooting and just block the tiny spot where you looking at with your non-leading eye, best is thin white plastic. A second reason for leaving both eyes open is a relaxed face.

 

Equanimous

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I have a Winchester 92 with a 17.25" barrel in .44 Magnum.   It is has a tang sight.   This is the first rifle that I consistently never missed with at normal SASS distances.   I have taken a few shots with it at pistol target long range, and I have always hit the target.

 

The other sights that I have found to be the most accurate are the buckhorn sights on my Lightnings.  This is the only rifle I've ever shot a clean match with, and it also worked well in pistol target long range.  There is just something about the way these sights line up that works very well for me.  Doesn't matter of they are AWA's or Colts.   The rear sight looks like a fairly generic semi-buckhorn, but the front sight drops into it darn near perfectly.  I think it has more to do with the front sight than the rear.

I'll carry that over to my 92 with the tang.  I find it very easy to find the front sight with the tang sight and then line it up.
 

So...   What works for you?  

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I've been called "gamey".

 

I like a full buckhorn with the notched insert removed.

I use it like a rear peep. I only focus on the front sight (sometimes :D) and don't even notice the buckhorn.

 

Huh, maybe I don't even need a rear sight?

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1 hour ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

You are using a tang sight incorrectly. Here is an excellent tutorial on how to properly use tang sights.

 

HOW TO USE TANG TYPE REAR SIGHTS AND INSERT TYPE FRONT SIGHTS

 

Properly used, peep style tang sights are good for MOA accuracy to well beyond 1000 yards. Something a post and notch will never be able to do.

No, I'm not using it incorrectly. I am severely near-sighted. And my eyes are old.

 

I do have a sports (shooting) prescription which does help but the rear sight hole is just to fuzzy period if it is that close to my face.

 

I do agree the tang sight greatly extends the distance one can shoot accurately, but this topic relates to the .357 cartridge. That round is typically good to 130 yards, maybe a bit further. But it will be seriously tumbling long before a typical rifle round (with twice the velocity) is still pointed in the right direction.

 

Another thing the tang sight does provide, and is another reason for improved accuracy at distance, is a much longer sight radius. Even moving a notch sight back to the tang location would improve accuracy because of the increased sight radius.

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10 hours ago, Tall Tale Todd said:

Any advice or input is welcome.

Separate from the sight discussion...

 

Is your rifle slicked or stock?

 

How is the trigger on your Miroku? For typical SASS distances, mine (still stock) is fine. The big issue I must fix at close range is the lever safety spring.

 

But from learning my rifle, I do find the trigger is not as good as it could be when trying to hit a gong at 100 yards.

 

If you have already run a couple thousand rounds, you have probably already smoothed it out. If not, some very gentle polishing might help it a bit. Be careful or get a pro to do it if you find it might help.

 

Looking at the tang as a better way to get on target has value. Thinking about my rifle, staying on target at that distance through a trigger pull is the next battle to consider. At 100 yards, it is far more important than the lever safety spring. At least it is on my Miroku.

 

But you are not doing wrong by looking at the best way to get on target in the first place.

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Long Range Pistol Caliber is typically 100yds.  at a SASS Rifle target, which is minimum, 16"x16"

Most shooters with a .357 rifle do not use .38 special for this, but go with .357 Magnum at a bit below manufacturer's maximum powder levels.  (One person said 10% below, one said .4 grains below, but that will really depend on the powder... you are going to have to experiment.)

They have practiced at that distance with those loads so that they know how their sights should be adjusted for that range, and where to hold to compensate for bullet drop.  Most use a heavier bullet, such as a 158gr. because a lighter bullet is more likely to get pushed around by air currents.

It seems like a 50/50 split between those with tang sights and those with standard sights.

The last winner I watched was using their regular standard match sights, which were flattened semi-buckhorn.  You could tell that person was no novice at shooting that distance... 

Edited by McCandless
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12 hours ago, Tall Tale Todd said:

The decision has been made to attend Winter Range in a couple months and Im going to participate in my first side match, Long Range Rifle pistol caliber. I'll be shooting my 24" Miroku 1873 .357 and was thinking of upgrading it with a tang sight. I'm wondering if there is any advantage in a tang sight or if I should just cowboy up and shoot the stock sights? Any advice or input is welcome. Thanks!

Shoot your rifle at 100yds and see what's best for you.

Have you put your app in for WR yet? If not, you really need to do so ASAP.

OLG 

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Texas state long range is 50, 75, 100, 125 as I recall. I shot and was 2nd by a couple of seconds  last year with my main match rifle, 38SP ammo. I move my sight elevator to about 1/2 way. Shoot low on closer targets, dead on at 125. If you want to win you have to be pretty darn quick, shoot clean. Not enough time to really line up tang sights. Just cover it up with front sight and let her rip! Just takes some practice. 

Edited by Hoss
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I have a 24-inch '92 with a tang sight for these side matches.  I removed the buckhorn sight entirely.  All I have to do is look through the peep sight and place the front sight at the desired location - just two things to line up.  My wife shoots the same rifle and finds it easy to ring the targets.  I use ammunition that is too hot for main matches.  It's fun to ring targets at 260 yards with a .357 round.

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Howdy Tell Tale,

 

Heres what works for me. I keep the standard mid sight for cowboy stages with the tang sight down. I sight in the tang sight for long range. I found that for normal cowboy stages the std mid sight is quicker, if you use it at all. The tang sights longer sight radius provides greater accuracy for long range. One other thing: don't worry it the peep is fuzzy when sighting. Just look at the front sight. You will instinctively center your eye in the aperture without any conscious effort. Put the front sight on the target and that's where the bullet will go. Ya just gotta believe. (based on years of working for Lyman).

 

Good luck,

Reverend Chase

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Exactly don't look at the peep look through it and focus entirely on the front sight. If you are consciously looking at the peep you are doing it wrong.

 

 

Edited by Sedalia Dave
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The rifle I use for this event is a 1934 Winchester 92 in .32WCF. 24 in barrel with mid sight removed and blank installed, lyman front globe with post insert, and lyman tang sight. Very accurate. 1st place WR 2020. 

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Personally I much prefer a tang sight. I don't even see the peep hole when I shoot. Just put the front bead on the target & shoot. Nothing to line up. But that's just me. 

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Tall Tale Todd -

 

A group of my good “pards” and I look forward to the Winter Range long range side match every year.  It is a lot of fun and well organized.  We mostly concentrate on big bore single shots and lever guns.  One year I took a pistol caliber lever rifle I use for lever gun silhouettes - it has a nice tang sight and I had a 100 :yard sight setting.  The course of fire at WR is alternating between two targets at 65 and 100 yards.  Aiming at alternating targets with a peep tang sight takes a couple of seconds (for me).  Just in front of me in the waiting line was a young cowpoke with his main match rifle that had buckhorn sights.  I watched him as he ripped out nine hits in eight seconds before his rifle locked up on the tenth round.  I just shook my head and walked away.  Develop a load for your buckhorns and go with that.  
 

My $.02  - YMMV

 

Ogallala Kid

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On 11/18/2020 at 6:49 AM, John Kloehr said:

 

The tang would not help me, my eyes will no longer focus up close so it would be blurrier than the stock rear sight. The cool factor tempted me to add one to my rifle anyway. I'm good to 100 yards with post and notch; not fast, just good.

 

So the things I would evaluate:

- Can you see the rear tang well enough to get a benefit? (I can't)*

 

You don't "focus" on a rear tang sight... you simply look THROUGH it. It doesn't matter if it is out of focus, your eye will naturally center the opening. The only sight you need to focus on is the front sight.

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10 minutes ago, The Verdigris Kid said:

You don't "focus" on a rear tang sight... you simply look THROUGH it. It doesn't matter if it is out of focus, your eye will naturally center the opening. The only sight you need to focus on is the front sight.

It does matter if it is so fuzzy that there is no basis from which to distinguish one edge of the circle from the opposite edge of the circle. There is no basis to establish a center in the rear sight for the front sight to be centered in.

 

On an 1873, the rear sight is forward enough that -- even though fuzzed -- I can center the front sight in it. A tang is worthless to me with either my distance glasses or my sports (front sight of a 5" barrel) prescription (and based on my experience shooting ARs vs AKs). I can hit a 1# Tannerite container at 100 yards with my AK or my '73; I'll take a while to slowly squeeze off the shot, but just need the one. With the AR, I'll need a few rounds to dial it in. Maybe 7 rounds... For a 4" target at 100 yards.

 

Still thinking a tang would look nice on my rifle but until I get cataract surgery (not medically necessary at this time) and pony up for flexible replacement lenses with myopia correction (I probably would), it won't do me any good. And this is likely due to my current severe near-sighted prescription, YMMV.

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I use the sights that came on my Miroku rifle, except for a larger front bead. And, I use my match ammo. Put the bead on the top of the target. Do not over think it. It's only a 100 yard shot. Just make sure everything is consistent; ammo, sight picture, grip, and trigger control.

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If you just want to get a Tang Sight because you want to get one... ain't nothing wrong with that. As for shooting your 24 inch 73 at 100 yds, the standard sights will work just fine. They are quicker to use and really, 100 yds at a 16" target isn't as difficult as you might think. I happen to like using a large bullet (160 gn) and maybe a little slower powder than I use in my everyday match ammo. You can go to a 357 case, but I see no advantage to it in this situation. I would Load up a few different rounds and go try them using a large paper target at 100 yds. I would start shooting off the bench with a rest just to see which round would give me the best group. Once I had that I would switch to shooting offhand using just that round and adjust the sights for center. Fact is, with a full Buckhorn rear sight you probable won't even need to change the sight setting for a 100 yds... just use the top of the Buckhorn rather than the bottom. JMO.

 

Snakebite 

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whatever sight your eye can acquire the target with the fastest would be my recommendation - and no im not a gamer , im just being practical to the application , 

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On 11/20/2020 at 6:15 AM, Snakebite said:

If you just want to get a Tang Sight because you want to get one... ain't nothing wrong with that. As for shooting your 24 inch 73 at 100 yds, the standard sights will work just fine. They are quicker to use and really, 100 yds at a 16" target isn't as difficult as you might think. I happen to like using a large bullet (160 gn) and maybe a little slower powder than I use in my everyday match ammo. You can go to a 357 case, but I see no advantage to it in this situation. I would Load up a few different rounds and go try them using a large paper target at 100 yds. I would start shooting off the bench with a rest just to see which round would give me the best group. Once I had that I would switch to shooting offhand using just that round and adjust the sights for center. Fact is, with a full Buckhorn rear sight you probable won't even need to change the sight setting for a 100 yds... just use the top of the Buckhorn rather than the bottom. JMO.

 

Snakebite 

 

I love when my Territorial Governor dispenses that golden wisdom.

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