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The Wild Bunch is stepping down.

Misty is still leading us.

The sky is assuredly not falling.

 

And I have already contacted Misty to offer my assistance in any capacity that she might need or desire. (whether that's a positive or not remains to be seen)

 

So, assuming that life and SASS will live on...

Where do we go from here?

 

As much as I respect the Wild Bunch and what they accomplished over the last 40 years - if we are honest; our game is slowly diminishing and a continuation of what we have done will only continue us on this same path.

 

I'm excited that new blood may allow for some needed changes and new ideas to grow and reinvigorate the game.

 

So where do we go from here?

What ideas, directions, promotions or methods would you like to see looked at or implemented?

 

Just a caveat:

Short strokes rifles and 97 shotguns aren't going anywhere - so try to keep your suggestions positive and focused toward actions/ ideas to keep our game relevant for another 40 years.

 

AND if Misty someday were to foolishly ask for my input... 

I admit upfront, I will steal every single idea on this thread and claim it as my own.

 

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I would like to see advertising in the magazines that NRA members receive as part of their membership, American Rifleman, etc. What better way to promote a shooting sport than to let shooters and gun enthusiasts know about us. How many millions of NRA members exist. 

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8 hours ago, Major BS Walker Regulator said:

I would like to see advertising in the magazines that NRA members receive as part of their membership, American Rifleman, etc. What better way to promote a shooting sport than to let shooters and gun enthusiasts know about us. How many millions of NRA members exist. 

I agree with that but there's budget issues, they'll have to raise dues again! Advertising ain't free!

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Host big events like eot at different locations in the country so more people can participate and new people can come see the biggest events in our association. 

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There is also NSSF.

 

While there may be things SASS can do with NSSF directly as an organization, I'm also thinking the organization can coordinate clubs to post shoots on the NSSF site.

 

August is National Shooting Sports Month, and clubs can get t-shirts, caps, and such as giveaways just for asking (and having an event).

 

This is also something that could be coordinated at the organizational level (maybe next year, time is short this year).

 

If some club wants to explore this at the local level, start here:

 

https://www.letsgoshooting.org/events/

 

 
Quote

 

August is National Shooting Sports Month

August is just around the corner! Across the U.S., shooting ranges and firearms retailers are planning events and promotions to help you celebrate. You can check out the events that are already slated – more are added every day! If your home range/club isn’t listed encourage them to add their events and promotions today to receive promotional packages consisting of shirts, hats, banners and other items to celebrate the month. We are also putting together even BIGGER GEARBOX GIVEAWAYS this year so check back as we get closer to August 1 to find out how to enter. Don’t forget to invite someone new to take part and you both could win!

 

 

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I think the Major is on the right track with respect to advertising, but before money starts getting thrown around for that SASS needs to identify their target market and also what forms of media that market is most exposed to.  There's nothing wrong with advertising directed towards NRA publications, but I'm not convinced that the majority of our target market reads those.  I found out about SASS through an article in Guns and Ammo.  Pure luck.

 

Surveys are a possibility for gathering that information.  Perhaps reach out to everyone from badge #80,000 (pulled that number out of the air) and find out how they heard about SASS. At the same time ask what types of media they follow.  Run the data and see what the demographics of the last 30,000 members has been.  How old are they, where do they live?  Identify who has dropped out and try to find out why.

 

As Rye pointed out, it will cost, but sometimes you have to spend money to make money.  Just be sure the money is being spent wisely.

 

Look at other similar organizations and see if some of the things they do to promote their sport will work for SASS.  Not all will, but I bet some would.

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1 hour ago, Mr w said:

Host big events like eot at different locations in the country so more people can participate and new people can come see the biggest events in our association. 

 

I wholeheartedly agree. The problem is that there are very few venues that can host a event of that size. Especially in the South, East of the Mississippi where gun ownership is prevalent.

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If you could find a good venue and then advertise heavy in that area you could bring in a whole new group of spectators and hopeful future participants 

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Club Annual and Regional matches show off CAS better than small monthly matches.  It should not be too hard to compile a list of newspapers (yeah, a few folks still read them) and TV stations within a 25 mile radius (easy impulse driving distance) and send out a professionally produced public service announcement from SASS about the big events.  Newspapers and TV news programs are always looking for filler items, some of them will get used, and some interested folks will show up.

 

Each club could submit such a list for their area to SASS headquarters.  A computer could burp out the info to the contact list entries via their online contact address a couple of weeks before the event.  No postage necessary, just electrons.

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3 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

I wholeheartedly agree. The problem is that there are very few venues that can host a event of that size. Especially in the South, East of the Mississippi where gun ownership is prevalent.

 

Sparta,  IL

 

 

I'm sure there are other venues that could be adapted to make it possible given the opportunity and advance notice.

 

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Well, I'd like to see a place found for various old west type guns that are not currently allowed in our game.   Most of them would probably only be viable in side matches, but there are a few things that could be made main match legal that would not impact how the game is played or screw anything up.

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12 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

I wholeheartedly agree. The problem is that there are very few venues that can host a event of that size. Especially in the South, East of the Mississippi where gun ownership is prevalent.

Not only that, there's a big upfront expense to host something like that.  All that money spent for a single event means very little profit.  It might be worth it if there was some type of rotation and the club knew they would be hosting the event again in a few years.

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A venue that can handle the size of a pre-2005 EOT is obviously important. But in the $$$ side, demographics are equally important.

 

I think the numbers for the 2004 EOT had roughly 25,000 paid non-shooting attendees... Which equals a lot of vendors... Which equals a lot of $$$ you the organization.

 

Phantom

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I think people need to set up at their local gun shows. Have some video running from shoots. Be dressed up. Have guns we use on display. That is how I found out about SASS and CAS. Have set up at a local show myself. And booked for a show this fall. I did have some interest from new people and even had one guy that was a SASS member want to know where the local clubs were.

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58 minutes ago, Old Man Graybeard said:

I think people need to set up at their local gun shows. Have some video running from shoots. Be dressed up. Have guns we use on display. That is how I found out about SASS and CAS. Have set up at a local show myself. And booked for a show this fall. I did have some interest from new people and even had one guy that was a SASS member want to know where the local clubs were.

A gunshow was the first place I had ever seen anything about SASS . I believe it was at the Reno gunshow back in the early 90’s .

Now that I’ve decided I’m going to “get into it” when I checked around there are actually quite a few places to shoot in my area for a sport with so few participants. From the schedule I’ve seen if I’m willing to drive about a hour and a half I could attend a match almost every weekend, and there’s two clubs local to me where one practice shoots on Wednesday. So it’s very available, don’t know if it’s that way in other areas . 

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After reading the article the thought that ran through my mind was the hope that the new board or whatever it will be called will include members of the younger generation so that their input can be heard.  I'm not knocking elderly age groups (I'm a member of that category) and the fact that wisdom is gained through experience dictates a need for input from them also.

 

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A lot of the "traditional" advertising mediums have gone away. People just don't subscribe to magazines any more.

 

There is good to be found in the replacement, though. Much more can be done, cheaper than traditional marketing efforts, with a concerted effort in lifestyle branding through digital platforms.

 

@Jed I. Knight, SASS #36423 is a great example of a start at this. Colion Noir from the NRA is another brand that most 'gun' people are aware of. 

 

Look on YouTube for all the 'brand marketing' videos Gibson guitars have been putting out. New, riveting content each week all promoting the Gibson lifestyle.

 

When was the last time you saw something like that from SASS?

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I would also suggest that it's time to revamp the rules making process. 

 

And in order to start the discussion here, I throw out the following recommendation.

 

Establish the rules committee to explicitly handle changes to the rules of the game. Membership at large can, in writing, recommend rule changes for consideration to the committee.

 

Every two years, those changes are considered by the committee, and any other changes that the committee feels that need to be made will be reviewed and voted on by the committee. A new rule book is then released.

 

For instance, rule changes must be made by January one of odd number years. the committee can have a list of things that it wants comments on released by March. Comments must be in by July. Committee meets to vote in October. Rulebook issued January one of even years. Membership thaen has a whole year to submit changes for consideration.

 

And, no changes will be made to the rule book for another two years when the new one comes out.

 

I would actually prefer it on a three or four-year cycle, but I thought I would at least get the ball rolling.

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10 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

A venue that can handle the size of a pre-2005 EOT is obviously important. But in the $$$ side, demographics are equally important.

 

I think the numbers for the 2004 EOT had roughly 25,000 paid non-shooting attendees... Which equals a lot of vendors... Which equals a lot of $$$ you the organization.

 

Phantom

Do you have any particular venue or venues in mind?  

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By far, the most important thing we can do is to Vote in November, and do whatever is needed to be sure our extended families, friends and acquaintances vote intelligently too.  If the election goes the wrong way and the Globalists end up in control of the Presidency, House and Senate, we might as well not worry about arranging chairs on the CAS Titanic.  Biden fully intends to pull in gun confiscation advocate Beto, and forclose on all gun ownership--or try to.  It would be "civil disobedience" like they've never ever envisioned!!! 

 

No matter what, PLEASE DON'T get discouraged by the rigged media or get too busy, and sit out the election.  

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10 hours ago, Old Man Graybeard said:

I think people need to set up at their local gun shows. Have some video running from shoots. Be dressed up. Have guns we use on display. That is how I found out about SASS and CAS. Have set up at a local show myself. And booked for a show this fall. I did have some interest from new people and even had one guy that was a SASS member want to know where the local clubs were.

We tried that years ago and got zilch. Probably didnt help that we werent ALLOWED to show videos!

Having said that, i think its a graet idea! If we can find anyone to do it!

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32 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

Do you have any particular venue or venues in mind?  

Nope!

 

Having "feelings" about what might be a good venue is meaningless. Proper market research would be in order.

 

Phantom

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I think some of the folks in Florida have done a great job of using video and social media to promote the sport. 

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19 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Nope!

 

Having "feelings" about what might be a good venue is meaningless. Proper market research would be in order.

 

Phantom

Agree.  Strongly! 

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4 hours ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

I would also suggest that it's time to revamp the rules making process. 

 

And in order to start the discussion here, I throw out the following recommendation.

 

Establish the rules committee to explicitly handle changes to the rules of the game. Membership at large can, in writing, recommend rule changes for consideration to the committee.

 

Every two years, those changes are considered by the committee, and any other changes that the committee feels that need to be made will be reviewed and voted on by the committee. A new rule book is then released.

 

For instance, rule changes must be made by January one of odd number years. the committee can have a list of things that it wants comments on released by March. Comments must be in by July. Committee meets to vote in October. Rulebook issued January one of even years. Membership thaen has a whole year to submit changes for consideration.

 

And, no changes will be made to the rule book for another two years when the new one comes out.

 

I would actually prefer it on a three or four-year cycle, but I thought I would at least get the ball rolling.

 

Thats a very good and thoughtful idea.

 

RULE #1:   The Rules Committee has the prerogative to make changes deemed necessary outside any established scheduled

'maintenance' of the Rule Book.

 

..........Widder

 

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33 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

Thats a very good and thoughtful idea.

 

RULE #1:   The Rules Committee has the prerogative to make changes deemed necessary outside any established scheduled

'maintenance' of the Rule Book.

 

..........Widder

 

I respectfully disagree with you there, Widder. Part of the problem we have had over the last decade or so are folks not being able to keep up with rule changes and clarifications changing rules on an irregular basis.

 

then, it becomes a luck of the draw and what TO you get before you figure out what rules and clarifications you are going to play by.

 

In order for a rule to become effective, you must give it time to become part of the culture. You must give it time to be implemented around the world, studied, and see it is having the desired effect before it's revisited again.

 

Take for example the fiasco of the lever rule from a couple years ago. They implemented a rule change, a short time later it was rescinded, then it was revisited, then implemented something again.

 

And, just because we didn't learn from that fiasco, we had to do it all over again.

 

Look at the mess that we got with moving with a cocked rifle from the loading table. Rule was voted on by a committee and came out, everybody had it figured out. People started running the matches with what they thought the rule to be. Well, they thought they had it figured out. Come to find out they didn't. A couple months later oh, a rule change comes out. Or rather the clarification on the rule change. And we still have people who don't understand the nuances of this rule. And, depending on what range you go to, will tell you what the rules going to be.

 

Just that whole process created a lot of hurt feelings, and even just distrust of the process.

 

It's something that can easily be avoided. 

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I think a lot of gun clubs are in defensive mode.  Meaning, that they don't want to attract any undue attention from politicians or the Anti-Gun lobby.  When was the last time you saw a gun club advertise in the local paper or heard an advertisement on the radio about a outdoor range?  Even my home gun club has a sign at the entrance that says CGC.  Not Cherokee Gun Club.  Any advertising done is targeted very specifically at shooters through email lists and word of mouth.  Getting the word out to the public about shooting sports is a double edged sword.  The cost of extended civil litigation would bankrupt most gun clubs.  

 

How do you grow the sport in this environment, I'm all ears.

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Jack,

you kinda made my point.

If the Committee made a rule and then needed to rescind it and/or reinstate it, why wait 2 or more years to

rescind it or reinstate it? 

 

All I'm emphasizing is that the Rules Committee shouldn't create a rule that restricts them from 

keeping proper and 'timely' maintenance on our rules.

 

Of course, they can do as they please and we'll all still play by those rules.

 

..........Widder

 

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44 minutes ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

I respectfully disagree with you there, Widder. Part of the problem we have had over the last decade or so are folks not being able to keep up with rule changes and clarifications changing rules on an irregular basis.

 

then, it becomes a luck of the draw and what TO you get before you figure out what rules and clarifications you are going to play by.

 

In order for a rule to become effective, you must give it time to become part of the culture. You must give it time to be implemented around the world, studied, and see it is having the desired effect before it's revisited again.

 

Take for example the fiasco of the lever rule from a couple years ago. They implemented a rule change, a short time later it was rescinded, then it was revisited, then implemented something again.

 

And, just because we didn't learn from that fiasco, we had to do it all over again.

 

Look at the mess that we got with moving with a cocked rifle from the loading table. Rule was voted on by a committee and came out, everybody had it figured out. People started running the matches with what they thought the rule to be. Well, they thought they had it figured out. Come to find out they didn't. A couple months later oh, a rule change comes out. Or rather the clarification on the rule change. And we still have people who don't understand the nuances of this rule. And, depending on what range you go to, will tell you what the rules going to be.

 

Just that whole process created a lot of hurt feelings, and even just distrust of the process.

 

It's something that can easily be avoided. 

This is a good topic, but may get lost with so many different topics on the one thread. Might be good to do a separate  one. 

Just my thought on the matter, but I believe the problem with people getting the correct info is in the communication process. As of now we have a territorial governor who acts as a liason from the club level to the upper management if you will. They're required to be internet savvy, etc. Many don't even have the internet. Club level members place their trust that they are voting on an option that has been laid out to them precisely. For instance I shot at 3 clubs during the leaving the loading table with a cocked rifle fiasco. The rule change was laid out to me 3 very different ways. That's no good. However, in this high tech day and age we could have "upper management" communicate directly with each member via an email poll or suchlike. Quick and easy.

I also don't care for waiting an extended period of time to change the handbook. As of now, we have to look at our old handbook, then look at various clarifications which are listed both on the RO corner PWB has graciously put out as well as searching through facebook. 

However, the digital handbook is available for ALL to download anytime they choose to do so. So if it were immediately clarified and or changed in the available downloadable handbook, we would ALL have immediate access to the information needed and we wouldn't have to wait all year for it to be edited. How would we know when a rule has been changed and or clarified? We pin a post at the top of the wire. When there's a change, tell us. 

We have the downloadable handbook. We could also have a downloadable clarification book right next to it.

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Dang, that TN Williams is long winded.....

:D

 

..........Widder

 

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The single thing I know; is SASS has a lot of smart successful people playing our game and in our leadership positions.

 

We find ourselves at a historic juncture with an opportunity to reimagine ourselves and our future.

 

Let's think BIGGER than "we need to allow Gunfighter in all categories".

 

There are internal needs to be revamped - the ROC, the TG process, voting and communication of rules.

 

And there are pressing needs externally as well. 

Membership growth, game awareness, publicity, and dealing with the perceived stigma of a shooting sport.

 

Perhaps this is just a baseless exercise in "I wish"; but maybe, just maybe, we can give some input to our future.

 

A member of the Wild Bunch once said, "This game dies when the Wild Bunch does".

Thankfully, we are not discussing anyone's death, but their retirement - but none the less.

 

With all due respect; I say we all step forward and prove them wrong.

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10 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

Jack,

you kinda made my point.

If the Committee made a rule and then needed to rescind it and/or reinstate it, why wait 2 or more years to

rescind it or reinstate it? 

The rule was not rescinded because it was a bad rule. It was rescinded because a member of the BOD took issue with how the rule was implemented.

 

Having a process like  that helps ensure that they make good rules to begin with that don't need revisions and clarifications ad nauseam later. It helps to have everyone on board with the process, the change, and the effects of that change before it is implemented.

 

honestly, the process that I described isn't something that I came up with, but is used by several other national organizations to great success.

 

Let me ask you, when was the last time they changed the rules of the baseball mid-season?

 

To @Tennessee williams Point  Absolutely.. there are many ways that we can reformat the rulebook to ensure that were collecting the rule and the clarifications are better put out all in one spot.

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Somebody sent me a p.m. saying my timing for a rule change committee process was off, and they very well could be right. I was just spitballing on the screen.

 

Their suggestion was that, if forming a rules committee the way I outlined it to look at the changes the rules, it would be good for the committee to have, at EOT, a forum, where people could discuss with the rules committee any of the proposed rule changes.

 

Sounded like a good idea to me.

 

And, they are right, the rules change committee doesn't work in a vacuum. They will also work with the ROC to ensure that any changes jive with everything else, and are well-defined, without the need for clarification. And, if clarification is needed, they can be included in the rule to begin with. finally, it would be up to the board of directors to accept the recommendations of the rules committee prior to the new rule book being published

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I know that big matches are for SASS membership only but maybe open the shoot up to nonmembers after a certain time before the shoot (2-3 weeks) to fill the shoot up.  Nonmembers not able to win prizes, only SASS members called out for winning, best dressed and etc.  Don't know if it would increase people playing the game or not.  I do know that my brother would like to play but said to have his guns set up to complete would cost way too much and could effect the value downward over the years.  Maybe have classes that only stock guns are allowed.  Just one big can of worms trying to enforce!  Maybe lobby the TV industry to put Westerns back on the TV.  My son shot in his teen years though college then a wife and kids demanded more time.  

 

There could be a lot of large city people who would like to play but there are no clubs within and hour or so from where they live.  Maybe look at getting zoned areas that a range could be started on.  I know that a group in Indianapolis tried to get a club started at one time and received very little help with the city.

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10 hours ago, Mister Badly said:

I think some of the folks in Florida have done a great job of using video and social media to promote the sport. 

Ditto here in Ohio!;)

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