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Marshal Hangtree

Honing 12 ga. chambers

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Please educate me on honing or slicking up the chambers on my side-by-side.  I shoot a Yildiz, and really like the gun, but normal Winchester AA low-volume low-recoil shells only shuck out cleanly about half the time.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.

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There's a few different methods that work.  You could use a fine stoned brake hone or wrap a dowel with ultra fine emery cloth.  The thing to remember is that you're polishing, not removing metal.  You just want the chambers to be as slick as possible without changing the inside diameter 

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Worth it:

 

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1007049254

 

Avoid a lot of honing deep in the chamber.  You DO NOT want to get a reverse taper in the chamber or the hulls will never come out!  Spin the hone more towards the breech end of the chamber than the barrel end of the chamber.

 

Hone a few seconds, clean it up.  Shoot and test.  Hone a bit more if you need to.  Go slow.  Polishing IS removing metal, just very small amounts.

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I use 50 grit sandpaper to rough up the chambers.   I know it sounds backasserds but it works. 

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Honing uses abrasives. Not need here.....

Get a 10ga mop, some Fritz and and drill motor.

About 1 minute in each chamber, do'n the back and forth deal with the mop well coated will do.

OLG 

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27 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Honing uses abrasives. Not need here.....

Get a 10ga mop, some Fritz and and drill motor.

About 1 minute in each chamber, do'n the back and forth deal with the mop well coated will do.

OLG 

 

Agree 100% with OLG.  If you just want to polish use Flitz it'll clean them up nicely.  If you hone or sand not matter how fine you will remove metal maybe not a lot but some will get removed.  The choice is yours but I'd start with the least aggressive and work up from there.  Have you tried spraying a little Dry Lube on them?  My brass shells come out like poop through a goose ;)

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Factory or reloads? 

 

Did you run them through a case gauge first to verify they are to specification?

 

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Thanks y'all.  All good suggestions.

 

OLG, what's a good source for Flitz?  Is there a particular compound I should look for?

 

Tequila Shooter, got any info on Dry Lube?

 

Sedalia Dave, I only shoot factory Winchester AA low-volume low-recoil that I pick up from Walmart.  My only SG loader is a Lee Load-All, and I've never been pleased with the crimp it produces.  I never knew I needed to put factory loads through a gauge, but obviously I should start.

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+1 for the product J-Bar gave you the link to.  After I used that hone, I used a shotgun "mop" with Semi-Chrome polish on it (Flitz would also work).

 

I had a similar problem with some new and reloaded AAs in two of my SKBs.  The hone and polish helped, but occasionally a AA hull would still stick.  I started using a chamber checker on all my new and reloaded shells.  I was surprised at the number of new AAs that would not drop into the checker.

 

I now only use Remington STS or Nitro shells and hulls in my doubles along with using the chamber checker.  Occasionally, a reloaded STS might be over-sized, but not very often.   

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+1 to Marshall Chance Morgun.

 

If Walmart is sold out I also found a tube at Ace Hardware.

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57 minutes ago, Marshal Hangtree said:

Thanks y'all.  All good suggestions.

 

OLG, what's a good source for Flitz?  Is there a particular compound I should look for?

 

Tequila Shooter, got any info on Dry Lube?

 

Sedalia Dave, I only shoot factory Winchester AA low-volume low-recoil that I pick up from Walmart.  My only SG loader is a Lee Load-All, and I've never been pleased with the crimp it produces.  I never knew I needed to put factory loads through a gauge, but obviously I should start.

 

I have found some boxes of AA LNLR where several of the heads were out of spec. I use a MEC superSizer to bring the heads back into spec.

 

BTW Slix makes an excellent case gauge. 

 

 

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A cautionary note here.  Your shotgun was manufactured with hard chrome bores.  That process also includes the chamber area.  Proceed with EXTREAM caution, if at all.  My suggestion is to LEAVE it alone and start experimenting with other similar ammunition.

 

NEVER   EVER   use a flex hone without flex hone OIL.  Lots of OIL.

 

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Any suggestions on different shotgun ammo, Coffinmaker?

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I have used the flex hone but did use the special oil as Colorado Coffinmaker says.

 

I've also used the mop and metal polish and both worked well.

 

You merely need to be sure the chamber is smooth - it doesn't have to be mirror polished really.

 

And as for the Walmark link, be careful when you post links as they often have a lot more info about you than we realize.  For example the proper link to the flitz is:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/FLITZ-METAL-POLISH-1-76-OZ/16493905

 

All the rest is relatively personal data to track someone.  I copy until I get to the question mark, then I have the required link.

 

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I got my last large tube of Flitz - Metal- Polish from Amazon. I like the paste for this job and a dash of the liquid Flitz in the media for cleaning brass.

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5 hours ago, Marshal Hangtree said:

Please educate me on honing or slicking up the chambers on my side-by-side.  I shoot a Yildiz, and really like the gun, but normal Winchester AA low-volume low-recoil shells only shuck out cleanly about half the time.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

And too,  it takes practice.   I practiced a lot to get from awful to reasonably proficient.  We often shoot with Doc Hurd.  I catch his shucks on video and you can't always see the shotgun move, so short and quick is the motion.  I accuse him of having ejectors. I bet he's practiced a lot. 

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Marshal.

 

Lots to choose from.  Remington and Fiocchi come immediately to mind.  Read some box labels.  Your going to want 1 ounce or less payload and under 1100 FPS.  Try smooth hull and ribbed hulls.  Also, WW LNLR ammo has been spotty in quality control of late.

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3 hours ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

+1 to Marshall Chance Morgun.

 

If Walmart is sold out I also found a tube at Ace Hardware.

 

You can find it at auto parts stores.

OLG 

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BE CAREFUL NOT to hone the inside of the extractors.  I've seen matches ruined and guns requiring major repairs because a shell head got inside the extractor, which had been over-polished, over-enlarged and/or rounded over.  It took major at-home surgery to collapse and remove the empty cases.  The extractors had to be replaced or welded up and remachined.  Just don't pull the polishing tool outside the cylinder while it is spinning.  

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I've used a 1/2" wooden dowel, slotted about 2" lengthwise, with progressively 600-1500 grit wet or dry sandpaper threaded into the slot.  I used it with a tiny bit of thread cutting lubricant (Tap Magic) and it produced a mirror finish in less than a quarter minute of honing with each grade.  

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Try a drill, 20 gauge brush wrapped with  very fine steel wool till it barely fits in the chambers..  Run it in the chambers, frequently checking for a mirror finish.  Stop as soon as you see the shine.  Don't over do it.  More is not better.    I have only had to do this once with each SKB.  

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17 hours ago, Marshal Hangtree said:

My only SG loader is a Lee Load-All, and I've never been pleased with the crimp it produces.

I have the same shot shell press. I use it on the rare occasion that I loaded plastic hulls. I had some crimping issues the first few times also. You have to use the right components so the column is right for it to provide a proper crimp. 

As for polishing/honing chambers there's lots of excellent suggestions already made. For my dbl I chucked up an empty hull in a drill and wrapped it in 1500 grit emery cloth. With a generous portion of 3n1 oil and then polished until it was shining. Still won't shuck plastic hulls worth a lick. Brass hulls fall out like a charm and no need to pester with a crimp. 

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I am going to disagree with almost everyone here.  I have done multiple shotguns with a wheel cylinder hone, lots of oil and constantly moving it.  It is my belief that any method that does not use a stone has the risk of leaving the chambers looking smooth, but not as cylindrical as they are supposed to be. Use caution not to hone the extractor in the process, and don't feel the need to overdo it.  I have done several hard chrome lined barrels and you don't get anywhere close to removing the finish.

 

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I use an extra fine two stone cylinder hone with Marvel Mystery Motor Oil. 

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23 hours ago, Marshal Hangtree said:

 

 

Tequila Shooter, got any info on Dry Lube?

 

 

Marshal I was talking about this

image.png.05642039ede11137b725ee0631e61cf3.png

One Shot

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I have a Stoeger Coach Gun and I used a BRM hone in my drill. I used Hoppes 9 lubricating oil.  I ran the drill about 5000 rpm, moving the hone up and down the chamber for 2 minutes.  I then used bore cleaner and a cotton bore brush until it was clean.  It cleanly shucked the Winchester AA FL I shot on Saturday. I cleaned the chamber and barrel again Sunday, and I’ll be shooting again Saturday and we’ll see how it goes.

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So - not real smart on the finer details of shotgunning - how does this differ from changing the forcing cone ?

Does this also result in de-burring the sharp edges around the mouth of the chamber ?

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10 minutes ago, Chuck Steak said:

So - not real smart on the finer details of shotgunning - how does this differ from changing the forcing cone ?

Does this also result in de-burring the sharp edges around the mouth of the chamber ?

Not what they are doing here. 

What is being discussed is more akin to polishing your cars paint, makes it shine, cuts down on friction.

 

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Lengthening the forcing cone slightly reduces pressures and is needed for some older guns that have only 1/2 inch forcing cones. 

(This is for smokeless powders.  Some find that the shorter forcing cone works well for black powder.)

 

Some guns (such as Winchester 97's) chambers were made for the older shells, which when open, were shorter than modern star-crimped shells.  So it helps to do those with standard modern chambers and 1 1/2 forcing cones - assuming the barrels are not too thin.

 

Honing is where you merely want a nice smooth chamber.  Sometimes the manufacturing process leaves very minor machining marks that can cause the hull to drag - thus need to be slightly smoother out but not actually enlarged or lengthened.

 

Some modern guns have chrome-lined barrels and chambers.  These are usually pretty smooth and much harder material. 

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Cool - so honing the chambers will help shuck the shells easier - it sounds like spending coins lengthening the forcing cone on a newer model shotgun may not be worth the gold

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I study all kinds of gun making and note that shotgun chambers usually come with some kind of texture in the chambers. A reference book I have on classic English doubles actually display unique chamber treatment that even included a waffle patterns, ribs and cross hatch, etc machined into the chambers.

 

Here is a video of a classic high grade Webley and Scott double.   At the 2 minute mark you can clearly see the chambers have a defiantly score swirl in the chambers.  You'd think if they put so much craftsmanship in the rest of the makings of the gun, they would polish the chambers if they thought it was the right thing to do..

 

 

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On 6/2/2020 at 11:31 AM, Marshal Hangtree said:

snip >

shells only shuck out cleanly about half the time.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.

< snip

Are the shucking failures out of one cylinder or both?? 

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On 6/3/2020 at 10:54 AM, J. Mark Flint #31954 LIFE said:

I am going to disagree with almost everyone here.  I have done multiple shotguns with a wheel cylinder hone, lots of oil and constantly moving it.  It is my belief that any method that does not use a stone has the risk of leaving the chambers looking smooth, but not as cylindrical as they are supposed to be. Use caution not to hone the extractor in the process, and don't feel the need to overdo it.  I have done several hard chrome lined barrels and you don't get anywhere close to removing the finish.

 

 

This is what I do too.  Wheel cylinder hone tool from Pep Boys, costs about $12.  Remove the extractor completely, then use the hone with lots of oil for a minute or so, working it in & out of the chamber.  I took a 1/2" dowel & made a lengthwise cut so I can put a piece of scotchbrite in the cut, then spin that with a drill.  It does a good job of polishing.

 

The problem may not be with the chamber finish.  My shotgun got a sticky chamber & I couldn't figure out why - I polished the chambers again, back-relieved the extractor, all the tricks I know, but one chamber still stuck almost every time.  Finally figured out that the extractor was turning when the shotgun was all the way open & was dragging on the hull.  Took care of that & now the hulls fly out like they are supposed to.

 

Holler

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Something to keep in mind.  If you remove too much material from your SG chambers you'll cause the hulls to over expand and that is way worse than the occasional stuck hull as you cannot put the metal back.

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