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Hells Comin

Clean Shooters

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On 10/11/2019 at 8:36 AM, Matthew Duncan said:

When a hard fought goal is reached it is very rewarding.  Builds character. 

 

When standards are brought down to qualify the masses then no character building results, just another participation award.

 

What are 'the standards'?

 

My standards are not the same as 60 year old Mrs. X

World Champion type shooters have various 'standards'.

GF, Duelist and Tradition style shooters have their 'standards'.

 

I'm just curious as to who's standards we are suppose to use for character building results and who

is suppose to judge those results.

 

..........Widder

 

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A big consideration of is the number of stages at a match. As the number of stages grows the number of clean shooters diminishes. 

Monthly match with 5-6 stages may have 20% clean, same as the first day of a 12 stage annual event, by the second day the number may be reduced to 10-12%. Clubs that only have 10 stages of main match shooting may have a higher % of clean shooters vs. a 12 stage annual. 

Our 20 stage Iron Man match had zero clean shooters, I was the only clean shooter going into day 3 and I blew it on the first stage of the third day. Heat and fatigue were contributing factors. All 20 stages were very cleanable. Perhaps, the number of clean shooters per stage is a better control number vs. overall clean. I'm not one to shoot like a sloth just to get a clean match pin, not a good practice in my mind, I'm trying to win the overall. Those that want to be clean and are comfortable shooting a little slower still must also deal with P's and gun/ammo malfunctions, it's not all about stage writing, once again the potential for a P or malfunction increases with the number of stages. 

 

Rain, snow, heat, cold, mud, dust, wind, etc. are also contributing factors.

Edited by Assassin
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would not bother me if everyone shot clean , im always looking for that but not very successful , one day ....

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1 hour ago, Assassin said:

it's not all about stage writing, once again the potential for a P or malfunction increases with the number of stages. 

Also with the number of years, I fear.  

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A d Texaz

U all put on a great State.

I really enjoyed shooting the match and meeting you. 

Thanks for the great time hoping to see u down the road !

 

 

By the way i shot the match CLEAN!!!!!

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Maybe the penalty isn't high enough for a miss, causing people to shoot within their capabilities or actually taking the time to aim rather than point and shoot, hoping for the best. It would be a shame to trivialize missing a shot.

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8 minutes ago, Roscoe Regulator said:

Maybe the penalty isn't high enough for a miss, causing people to shoot within their capabilities or actually taking the time to aim rather than point and shoot, hoping for the best. It would be a shame to trivialize missing a shot.

Absolutely!! +1

They need to stop fooling around w/ these misses!! 

If you missed in the old west you would be finished ... (if anyone was shot multiple times while aiming/exhibiting superior markmanship it was never reported!!).

But ... making the first miss a stage DQ and the second miss a match DQ would solve the problem!

Plus ... it would save the clubs a bunch on awards, trophies, parking ... all kinds of stuff.

All the clean shooters could just drive to MDonalds ... get a table and talk about their skills  .. show off their best target group from the range etc!! s3.gif.e271c0827e358b71758d22cd0126cd99.gif

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50 minutes ago, Roscoe Regulator said:

Maybe the penalty isn't high enough for a miss, causing people to shoot within their capabilities or actually taking the time to aim rather than point and shoot, hoping for the best. It would be a shame to trivialize missing a shot.

This is where someone trots out that old saying, "Speed is fine; accuracy is final".

 

Honestly - misses are WAY over emphasized/ penalized in our game.

 

Shooter A shoots twice in 1 second - misses with both.  And then 1/2 second later hits the target with shot three.

 

Shooter B shoots his first shot at the two second mark but hits the target.

 

Somehow shooter B is the superior shooter?

By SASS math; yes.

Not by real world math - the bad guy was engaged/ dispatched 1/2 second faster by shooter A than Shooter B.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing an all hit stage

10-10-4

20 targets - must use at least one round from each type gun.

Only required to discharge 20 rounds.

Firearms restaged with rounds in them (action open) are a no call.

 

Lowest time to get to 20 hits wins. 

No penalty for misses - reload if necessary until you hit all 20.

 

Then we can actually determine the importance of accuracy versus speed.

 

 

Edited by Creeker, SASS #43022

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Judging a match by the number of clean shooters is kinda silly. The last time I went to a big match that was set up to be difficult was 2006....it was an annual with 150 shooters. I can safely say that since that match I have not been to one that was NOT cleanable. That doesn't mean that all the matches I've shot had high percentages of clean shooters. It just means that if you paid attention to the stage instructions and your front sights you could very easily shoot clean. I've been to plenty of matches where shooters exceeded their abilities and received 5 second speeding tickets.

 

As someone who had the privilege of helping put on some big matches 300+ shooters, I would say to set your match up and then walk it.....How does it feel? Are the targets hittable? Are the instructions clear? Are there any P traps or safety issues? If you feel good about the answers to those questions, then let it roll. 

 

I would tell shooters to go look at the stages BEFORE the match starts and see how it feels. Give the match a fair assessment and tell yourself where to push on the throttle and where to let up. I think most shooters will find that the match they call difficult AFTER they shot it would probably not have given that same assessment BEFORE they shot it. Match performance usually will influence match assessment.

 

I went to 2 big matches this year that had all the pistol targets set between 5 and 6 yards, the rifle targets were maxed out at 12 and the shotgun targets were fine. Both had plenty of movement. One I crapped out on.....the other was probably my best shooting performance ever. My performance was not indicative of the caliber of either match. The were both good matches. Not perfect matches but good solid honest shooting competitions.

 

I shot a match yesterday that had a polish plate rack with 6 plates on it....Yes it spins once you knock the first plate off.....It was a hoot.....We shot some flying clays. We even shot a couple of stationary clays with the rifle. You actually had to aim.....Wow. There were also some targets you could absolutely hammer. We had the ability to clean up the clays with the shotgun and between the rifle and pistols you had 14 shots to take off the 6 plates.....More than reasonable. It was ENTERTAINING as well as challenging......15% shot it clean.

 

IMHO....Entertainment is not rooted in any one aspect of our shooting sport. All the targets don't have to be in your face for a match to be entertaining. The pistol string and the rifle string don't have to match on every stage to be entertaining. All the targets don't have to be at the same height to be entertaining. VARIETY is the key to entertainment. Try to give each "shooting camp" a little something to salivate over.

 

Stan

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19 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

What are 'the standards'?

.....Widder

 

 

The Cowboy's Prayer by Clem McSpadden

 

Our gracious and heavenly Father, we pause in the midst of this festive occasion, mindful of the many blessings you have bestowed upon us.

 

As cowboys, Lord, we don't ask for any special favors. We ask only that you will let us compete in this arena as in the arena of life.

 

We don't ask that we never break a barrier, draw around a chute-fighting horse, or draw a steer that just won't lay. We don't even ask for all daylight runs.

 

We only ask that you help us to compete in life as honest as the horses we ride and in a manner as clean and pure as the wind that blows across this great land of ours.

 

Help us, Lord, to live our lives in such a manner that when we make that last inevitable ride to the country up there, where the grass grows lush, green and stirrup high, and the water runs cool, clear and deep, that you, as our last Judge, will tell us that our entry fees are paid.

 

Amen.

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On 10/9/2019 at 9:23 PM, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

Absolutely.

I always wanted 100% clean.

But strived for 25-30% clean.

 

In my opinion; clean shooters are not only indicative of big close target placements - but well written stages with reasonable activities and clear instructions.

 

I cannot control a shooters trigger discipline or their eyesight or their concentration level...

But I can ensure that everything I do as a match director is designed to facilitate that shooter being allowed to perform to the best of their ability.

 

Match Directors that are...

Adversarial to the shooter.

Hoping to see the shooter fail or crash.

Not 100% committed to the shooters success.

 

Those match directors, in my opinion; have no business being a match director.

Wish many more match directors would follow these guidelines, very well stated....Thank you

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oops

Edited by COLORADO JACKSON

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8 hours ago, Roscoe Regulator said:

Maybe the penalty isn't high enough for a miss, causing people to shoot within their capabilities or actually taking the time to aim rather than point and shoot, hoping for the best. It would be a shame to trivialize missing a shot.

I don't think 5 second miss is trivializing missing a shot. We just finished the 12 stage Tennessee State Championship this weekend and I had 1 miss each day. 1 miss on the first day amounted to a 17.86% penalty and 1 miss on the second day amounted to a 23.1 % penalty. Maybe I'm mistaken but I don't consider that trivial.

 

As for Clean Shooters this was a 12 stage match with 186 shooters and 14.5% shot it Clean.

 

Thanks

Randy

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28 minutes ago, Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 said:

I don't think 5 second miss is trivializing missing a shot. We just finished the 12 stage Tennessee State Championship this weekend and I had 1 miss each day. 1 miss on the first day amounted to a 17.86% penalty and 1 miss on the second day amounted to a 23.1 % penalty. Maybe I'm mistaken but I don't consider that trivial.

 

As for Clean Shooters this was a 12 stage match with 186 shooters and 14.5% shot it Clean.

 

Thanks

Randy

I agree!  Another way to think about miss penalties, if it takes you 16 seconds to shoot the stage and you miss once, you’ve incurred a 30% penalty for that stage. 

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If % clean =fun....Black Gold must be great fun with 25% clean shooters! Crips, I even shot it clean!

 

I've long suggested that we should be allowed to throw out our worse stage and be scored on the remaining.

 

I want to change my alias to " One Bad Stage"

Edited by Rancho Roy
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10 hours ago, Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 said:

I don't think 5 second miss is trivializing missing a shot. We just finished the 12 stage Tennessee State Championship this weekend and I had 1 miss each day. 1 miss on the first day amounted to a 17.86% penalty and 1 miss on the second day amounted to a 23.1 % penalty. Maybe I'm mistaken but I don't consider that trivial.

 

As for Clean Shooters this was a 12 stage match with 186 shooters and 14.5% shot it Clean.

 

Thanks

Randy

Well, you may be parsing the word trivialize. When is a penalty harsh enough to get people to shoot at a speed they can handle? Do the close targets mean it is just a contest to see how fast one can dump his ammo? Why do we take more than 5 seconds to reload or extra time to make up a shot with the shotgun rather than take the miss? I think that is about caring about missing the target. If we rush to be competitive on time and hope for the best, it becomes more about athletic ability than a shooting sport. What if we had highly regarded awards for fastest clean shooter instead of raw times? Just some ideas. I am having a good time and seeing others enjoy themselves as it is, but this is still a curious sport.

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1 hour ago, Rancho Roy said:

If % clean =fun

 

My personal results so far:

  • 0% clean matches :blush: (nor were they fast...)
  • always 100% fun :D

Equanimous

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35 minutes ago, Roscoe Regulator said:

Well, you may be parsing the word trivialize. When is a penalty harsh enough to get people to shoot at a speed they can handle? Do the close targets mean it is just a contest to see how fast one can dump his ammo? Why do we take more than 5 seconds to reload or extra time to make up a shot with the shotgun rather than take the miss? I think that is about caring about missing the target. If we rush to be competitive on time and hope for the best, it becomes more about athletic ability than a shooting sport. What if we had highly regarded awards for fastest clean shooter instead of raw times? Just some ideas. I am having a good time and seeing others enjoy themselves as it is, but this is still a curious sport.

 

Roscoe,

No doubt this is a great lunch table topic. 

 

We have many shooters who can do a SG makeup in less than 5 seconds.  Some of those are in the

1 to 2 1/2 second range, depending upon SG type and style.

And we have many who will take 4-7 seconds to reload for a SG makeup.

 

I'm in the mindset that 5 second penalties is sufficient for our game/sport when it comes to misses.

But remember, its not just a miss that cost us 5 seconds..... its also 'unfired' rounds that are costly.

And sometimes, unfired rounds aren't exactly the shooters shortcomings of a bad reload.

It could be a bad primer or broke gun..... which can cost them dearly if multiple rounds are unfired.

 

And when we start looking at scores and such, 5 seconds can make a big difference in finishes because

many of our category competitors are running neck-n-neck on their overall performances..... in time and

accrued misses.    

 

I like the way Rand St. Eagle and Capt Bill Burt put it in the perspective of %.    5 seconds can become

a drastic change in score when you look at it from a percentage point of view.

 

Have a great day.

 

..........Widder

 

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1 hour ago, Roscoe Regulator said:

Well, you may be parsing the word trivialize. When is a penalty harsh enough to get people to shoot at a speed they can handle?

As stated above, the quicker stage times you run the bigger percentage penalty you incur for a miss. If you're shooting 50 second stages, you're looking at half the penalty of a 25 second stage shooter. Maybe we should penalize the slower shooters with 10 seconds. You may be on to something.

Quote

 If we rush to be competitive on time and hope for the best, it becomes more about athletic ability than a shooting sport.

I don't know of ANY shooting sport that does not take athletic ability into the equation to some degree. Even long range shooting depends on the human body ability. Breathe control, trigger control, balance, patience, etc.

SASS is a speed sport. If not, we wouldn't be penalized with a time penalty for misses or boo-boos. We would be scored for cumulative hits.

Quote

What if we had highly regarded awards for fastest clean shooter instead of raw times? Just some ideas.

I see nothing wrong with this, although most of the time a match DOES boil down to the fastest clean shooter. 

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6 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said:

Maybe we should penalize the slower shooters with 10 seconds. You may be on to something.

 

Maybe we should get Dairy Queen to charge more to the unclean, fast shooters :P

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At a point, this could become like straightening out the ski slalom to make sure more people get through clean.  Isn't this supposed to be competition?  If not, then why have all the medals and buckles? 

Are those just participation trophies?

So bring it on.  Don't shy away from hard stages, but make them about shooting skills and speed--things we can practice.   Those who practice to be able to do it WILL do it.  The others won't be winners, but can enjoy the events, the challenging shooting and friendships.   And everyone will keep improving in their game against themselves and a timer. 

What's wrong with that?

I never saw much point in participation trophies.  

Edited by Dusty Devil Dale

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Many years ago before we had a real governing body there were clubs out there that accessed missed targets with 10 second penalties. 

There weren't as many clubs then and we shot there anyhow, or we didn't shoot. 

 

20+ years back clean matches were rare, even the best shooters had a couple misses on a good day. We'd talk about how many clean stages we had.

Most matches are cleanable today, years back they would throw in stuff that were games of chance and it was not possible for everyone to shoot without a miss.

 

I personally don't care about clean, monthlies are for practice, winning a monthly and shooting clean might help build ones ego and self confidence.

Then, when you go to a big boy match and everyone is cleaning your clock because you chose to take the slow and clean path it makes you reassess your abilities.

When you get home, and you say "I finished in the middle of the pack, didn't win my category, I was clean, and I had fun", ok.

 

We have some wicked good shooters in our game, and they can take whatever comes at them as far as target arrays and sequences. 

Just what is it about shooting clean that creates the euphoric feeling that's supposed to come over us when we all shoot a clean match?

It is a competition, a speed and accuracy competition, and it's as though no one wants to work that hard to become a clean shooter, they just want to be a clean shooter. 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Roscoe Regulator said:

 When is a penalty harsh enough to get people to shoot at a speed they can handle? 

 

Gee, I always thought it was the shooter's responsibility to make that risk/reward decision. I never knew it was the job of a match director.  I learn something new every day. :blink:

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Make up your own mind on what you are there to accomplish. Wanna be the fastest? Then practice for that.

Wanna shoot clean? Then practice and take the time you need to shoot clean.

I don't practice as much as I need to... I know it. Nobody's fault but mine. If I want to shoot clean, I know that I better not outrun MY skill.

I like shooting clean but that's not my goal. My goal is to improve and monthly matches are where I can get the practice to do that.

Had a miss on Saturday AND my kid beat me! Guess I need to practice some more... not get easier stages.

And if SHE were to practice more... she'd be knockin em down and be in the top couple shooters at monthlies.

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1 hour ago, Tennessee williams said:

As stated above, the quicker stage times you run the bigger percentage penalty you incur for a miss. If you're shooting 50 second stages, you're looking at half the penalty of a 25 second stage shooter. Maybe we should penalize the slower shooters with 10 seconds. You may be on to something.

I don't know of ANY shooting sport that does not take athletic ability into the equation to some degree. Even long range shooting depends on the human body ability. Breathe control, trigger control, balance, patience, etc.

SASS is a speed sport. If not, we wouldn't be penalized with a time penalty for misses or boo-boos. We would be scored for cumulative hits.

I see nothing wrong with this, although most of the time a match DOES boil down to the fastest clean shooter. 

I agree.

 

Up at the top of the list the difference between winning and not can often come down to very small differences, so a 5 second penalty is huge. 

 

OTH, if you're on the fringe of a speed group it may not matter much.  I lurk just below the top shooters around here.  They'll have to miss two or three times while I shoot clean and fast before I get into contention with them.  On the flip side of that, if I'm not in contention for a top spot, I might be able to miss 3 or 4 times without it impacting my overall or category finish. 

 

Last Saturday I could have missed once and held my spot, but if I had missed twice I would have dropped down one place.

 

 

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In a total time match percent penalty per stage does not matter.  It is the percentage for the entire match.  I'll use RSE as an example.  Randy had two misses for the entire match his total time was 242.53.  Randy had 2 misses so if he had shot clean his total time would have been 232..53.  Two misses was 4.3% penalty for the entire match for Randy.  Percent penalty for a miss is based on the shooter's own ability for the entire match using total time.  This method holds true if all shooters shot the same raw time and number of misses determined the results.  Just another way to look at the data.  I do agree with Williams the fastest shooter with the fewest misses will win a total time match.

 

Whiskey

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2 hours ago, Assassin said:

Many years ago before we had a real governing body there were clubs out there that accessed missed targets with 10 second penalties. 

There weren't as many clubs then and we shot there anyhow, or we didn't shoot. 

 

20+ years back clean matches were rare, even the best shooters had a couple misses on a good day. We'd talk about how many clean stages we had.

Most matches are cleanable today, years back they would throw in stuff that were games of chance and it was not possible for everyone to shoot without a miss.

 

I personally don't care about clean, monthlies are for practice, winning a monthly and shooting clean might help build ones ego and self confidence.

Then, when you go to a big boy match and everyone is cleaning your clock because you chose to take the slow and clean path it makes you reassess your abilities.

When you get home, and you say "I finished in the middle of the pack, didn't win my category, I was clean, and I had fun", ok.

 

We have some wicked good shooters in our game, and they can take whatever comes at them as far as target arrays and sequences. 

Just what is it about shooting clean that creates the euphoric feeling that's supposed to come over us when we all shoot a clean match?

It is a competition, a speed and accuracy competition, and it's as though no one wants to work that hard to become a clean shooter, they just want to be a clean shooter. 

 

 

 

Very well stated and I agree with you.  I think it depends what we each really want to get out of our monthly practice and major matches.  When I started out in this sport, I remember Snakebite advising me, "You need to decide if you want to be a participant  or a competitor in this sport.  They require different levels of attention". I admit I didn't fully understand, at the time, what he was referring to.  Now, after shooting for a time, it is more apparent.   Only a few will expend the time and effort to become "Competitors".  The rest will be here for enjoyment, friendships, and an occasional satisfying performance. 

 

Perhaps we need to recognize those different sets of goals in scaling our matches.  If we want masses of satisfied "participants" who had a good time, then our stage design probably doesn't matter very much, as long as they are fair, stay closely related to shooting skills, are fun, and don't exhaust everyone. 

 

Those "participant" needs are not inconsistent with concurrently meeting the needs of the "Competitors" among us. 

 

If we want the matches  to be useful practice for major matches and we want our major matches to really be a test of the whole array of CAS skills, then make all of them challenging or even close to impossible to shoot fast and clean. 

 

Stage times for the fastest among us might change from the teens to the thirties.  But maybe some true "Champion" would practice, and refine his/her skills and equipment, and at some time, emerge with the skills and coordination to shoot those tougher courses of fire in the teens. Then, competing with him/her would serve to drive everyone else's effort and skills forward.  Isn't that what "Championship" competition is about?  Those who get closest to the top of the competitive hill within each category will be the winners.  The rest of us need to either emulate them, or just enjoy being "Participants"

 

If you're trying to test trucks for pulling power, you don't load them all lightly and give them a low grade to climb.  You are trying to find out their performance limits.  Ideally you look for a load and a hill that will stop ALL of them at their respective limiting point.  If they all easily get to the top (shoot clean),  you don't learn anything useful about making improvements. 

 

 
 

 

 

 

.   

Edited by Dusty Devil Dale

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In DDD post above, FAIR is the operative word, in my opinion.   Everybody likes variety, but not at the expense of perceived fairness.

It's a balancing act.  Shooters who want to shoot clean should be given the chance to do it.  When you see a new shooter shoot their first clean match, the joy on their face is obvious.  The best shooters will win regardless of how you set it up, but you can take away the joy of the match for the average shooter if it's too hard.  

 

Since I've been in this sport, I've never heard  "That match was too easy".  I've heard that it was "Too hard" at least once a year.  

 

 

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27 minutes ago, Null N. Void said:

 Shooters who want to shoot clean should be given the chance to do it. 

 

 

I'm not picking on you at all NNV, but this statement has always puzzled me.  What exactly does it mean to give shooters a chance?  Every single match that has ever taken place the shooters had the chance to shoot clean.  But they made the decision as to whether or not that was their priority.  Barring a firearm malfunction I could clean ever match I ever go to.  It's my choice to speed things up and take the risk of eating a miss or three. The size and distance of the targets along with the complexity of the stage description will obviously change the ease of which a stage can be cleaned,  That doesn't change the fact that all shooters have a chance to shoot clean. 

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I look at Stats.  If I see a stage that had many misses and P's, I'll not write a stage like that.  I think everybody knows shooters that want to shoot a clean match each and every match and shoot slow enough to do that.  If they are tripped up by a P trap, they are not happy.   It's usually not the target distance that trips them up, it's usually confusing stages.

 

I realize there's different perceptions and enjoyment factors.  I just lean towards a bit easier than harder for the middle of the pack shooters.

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52 minutes ago, Whiskey Hayes #41999 said:

In a total time match percent penalty per stage does not matter.  It is the percentage for the entire match.  I'll use RSE as an example.  Randy had two misses for the entire match his total time was 242.53.  Randy had 2 misses so if he had shot clean his total time would have been 232..53.  Two misses was 4.3% penalty for the entire match for Randy.  Percent penalty for a miss is based on the shooter's own ability for the entire match using total time.  This method holds true if all shooters shot the same raw time and number of misses determined the results.  Just another way to look at the data.  I do agree with Williams the fastest shooter with the fewest misses will win a total time match.

 

Whiskey

That's right. If his total time was 465 seconds his % penalty would've only been 2.15%(?). I was just being sarcastic about some people wanting to raise the time penalty for a miss.:ph34r: 

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48 minutes ago, Null N. Void said:

I look at Stats.  If I see a stage that had many misses and P's, I'll not write a stage like that.  I think everybody knows shooters that want to shoot a clean match each and every match and shoot slow enough to do that.  If they are tripped up by a P trap, they are not happy.   It's usually not the target distance that trips them up, it's usually confusing stages.

 

I realize there's different perceptions and enjoyment factors.  I just lean towards a bit easier than harder for the middle of the pack shooters.

 

 

Okay, we're on the same page. 

 

It's funny, I look back at some of the stages I wrote about 10 years ago.  I was brand new to SASS having come over from the modern shooting disciplines like IDPA, IPSC and such.  I wanted my stages to be challenging because that's what I liked.  If I saw stages like that today my first thought would be to look for a rope to hang the stage writer. :lol:

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Many of you...and I mean MANY, always post comments that the Top Shooters will still be top shooters regardless of

stage design, etc.....that could effect their time.

 

So, if thats the case, WHY would anyone want to have a match where the target placement and stage design

really effects all the other shooters?

 

Don't you see what you are saying?    And don't you see how some of these discussion points that advocate

these "Challenging" stage designs are only effecting all the other shooters while those Top Shooters

continue to blister the stages and leave most of us choking in their trail dust.

 

Sure, MANY of us can hit all the targets if we allow our priorities to deem as such.

But what about Ms.Johnson from Bucksnort who travelled 8 hours to shoot a match just to be

hindered by difficult and "Challenging" stage designs.  Where is her glory and bragging rights

traveling back home when she's looking at her total time in disgust.

 

..........Widder

 

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4 hours ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

Make up your own mind on what you are there to accomplish. Wanna be the fastest? Then practice for that.

Wanna shoot clean? Then practice and take the time you need to shoot clean.

I don't practice as much as I need to... I know it. Nobody's fault but mine. If I want to shoot clean, I know that I better not outrun MY skill.

I like shooting clean but that's not my goal. My goal is to improve and monthly matches are where I can get the practice to do that.

Had a miss on Saturday AND my kid beat me! Guess I need to practice some more... not get easier stages.

And if SHE were to practice more... she'd be knockin em down and be in the top couple shooters at monthlies.

You sound like a good dad!  I bet your kids are delightful to be around-- except possibly when they beat you and let you know it.  I agree with everything you stated.  

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1 hour ago, Null N. Void said:

I look at Stats.  If I see a stage that had many misses and P's, I'll not write a stage like that.  I think everybody knows shooters that want to shoot a clean match each and every match and shoot slow enough to do that.  If they are tripped up by a P trap, they are not happy.   It's usually not the target distance that trips them up, it's usually confusing stages.

 

I realize there's different perceptions and enjoyment factors.  I just lean towards a bit easier than harder for the middle of the pack shooters.

I agree with you about "P" s.  Not necessarily about misses. 

 

Nobody enjoys getting confused or accidentally shooting out of order, and losing a match because of it.  If stages are impossible for most people to remember, it serves nobody.   It drains out all of the shooting fun.  

 

But when it comes to hitting targets, that's another story, at least for me.  Hitting targets is the crux of what shooting is all about.  And, again for me, moving targets in  closer and making them bigger isn't the correct way to address misses.   Practice is the only good way to fix it.  It isn't a match writer's job to prevent misses or to cause them.   The MD should produce a match that is fair and impartial, fun, and represents a "contest", intended to separate and rank shooters based on their entire array of CAS shooting skils.  

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