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doc roy l. pain

EOT stages

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1 minute ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

I think I'd like shooting at your club.  Sounds like my style of CAS. 

 

You'd not only like shooting at his home club(s), but you'd truly love shooting with the

Cracker Crew.   Except for the pretty ones (ladies), they are nothing short of

the finest Misfits and Ornery Bandits you'll ever get whooped by..... :lol:

 

And when it comes to a high skill level, you would be hard pressed to find any Pards

who excel with all their Cowboy firearms.

 

A Pard don't have to travel to EOT to watch and shoot with our finest.   Just travel

to a few states and you'll discover a flavor of Champions you'll be proud to know.

And the Cracker Crew is top notch.

 

..........Widder

 

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2 hours ago, Tyrel Cody said:

 

Chicago style pizza isn't pizza, it's pie :P

Ahhh, hahahaha... NO!

Best PIZZA ever!  

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5 minutes ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

Ahhh, hahahaha... NO!

Best PIZZA ever!  

 

I prefer NY Style myself, BUT Pequod's has the best Pizza Pie I've ever had.

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2 hours ago, Tyrel Cody said:

 

Chicago style pizza isn't pizza, it's pie :P

Is it a pie if it’s square or rectangular?

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1 hour ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

      Maybe we should have just saved all of that money and practiced more on our skills - - eh? 

Yep.

   If someone is beating you by 2 seconds with both of you shooting stock guns and you go out and short stroke your pistols and rifle, you're still going to get beat by 1.5 probably. 

   On the other hand, during practice you realize you hesitate a second between all your firearms. Thats 3 seconds, and you just beat the guy.

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Stan, I was just asking and not meaning to criticize. 

 

I agree that variety is fun and the Florida folks have been providing us great match for YEARS!

 

A few angles are fine.  Plus I am pretty sure the bad guys rarely line  up evenly for us :D 

 

Some even duck now and then.

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24 minutes ago, Yul Lose said:

Is it a pie if it’s square or rectangular?

 

Nah, that makes it a casserole :lol:

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I'm a little confused after reading this thread. 

 

I was under the impression that over the years matches pulled their targets in close and fast to cater to the top shooters.  The result of which would decrease participation.

 

Now, pushing targets out, adding more movement and transitions are being done to cater to the top shooters.  The result of which could decrease participation.

 

If my powers of deductive reasoning are on point today we should do the opposite of what top shooters want...If the goal is to increase participation. 

 

If only these top shooters would make up their minds....:huh:

 

 

 

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45 minutes ago, Deadeye Dillard said:

I'm a little confused after reading this thread. 

 

I was under the impression that over the years matches pulled their targets in close and fast to cater to the top shooters.  The result of which would decrease participation.

 

Now, pushing targets out, adding more movement and transitions are being done to cater to the top shooters.  The result of which could decrease participation.

 

If my powers of deductive reasoning are on point today we should do the opposite of what top shooters want...If the goal is to increase participation. 

 

If only these top shooters would make up their minds....:huh:

 

 

 

 

Yep, you Top Shooters are keeping the rest of us confused..... ;)

 

Congrats on your great ranking.    Keep em smoking!

 

..........Widder

 

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2 hours ago, Yul Lose said:

Is it a pie if it’s square or rectangular?

If it’s square then you are eating at the wrong pizza place. 

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2 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Yes you did miss something, ‘humanly possible’ in my statement.  

 

All the best golfers have top of the line equipment, what separates them isn’t equipment or the course, it’s innate ability and practice, practice, practice to the point of being on the edge of what a human can do.

Having trouble believing some of what I'm reading here.   I guess I just wasted all that money short-stroking guns. 

 

In many, many other threads here, over the years that I've been doing CAS, some of the same folks posting here have posted raving, positive reviews favorably comparing various SS mods.  They misled me to believe it would substantially affect the ergonomics of my gun handling and shooting, and thus speed up my times.  And I really (apparently wrongly) thought it had worked that way, seeing my and other peoples' rankings move upward substantially after making the firearm improvements.  

 

We really need to kill that apparent myth, that the SS mods don't improve shooting.  We need to prevent other new shooters getting caught up in that hype, as I did.  

 

I can't figure out why the folks who make, sell and install the short stroke products remain so widely respected across SASS, if their products have such minimal beneficial effect on shooter times.  

 

Either the SS mods produce faster times, or they don't.  Which is it ?(and remember, I'm looking back at prior posts on the Wire.)

 

Obviously this is pretty tongue in cheek, but look back at the earlier dialogs here.  

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16 minutes ago, El Hombre Sin Nombre said:

If it’s square then you are eating at the wrong pizza place. 

There’s a little pizza place out here that is owned by a Mexican family and they serve deep dish pizza in a square pan. They also have the best taco Tuesday night around. 

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Shooters dont do a happy dance when they miss or get P. Low number of clean shooters says it all.  

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20 minutes ago, Yul Lose said:

There’s a little pizza place out here that is owned by a Mexican family and they serve deep dish pizza in a square pan. They also have the best taco Tuesday night around. 

While not selling me on the pizza, I’m always down for tacos. Hook me up when I finally make it down there for a shoot. 

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4 hours ago, Santa Fe River Stan,36999L said:

 

They used the same targets that they have been using for YEARS (at least since 2010 my first EOT).....it's all they have....as far as I can tell they have not invested in new steel in a long time. It's not like they had a bunch of 18x24 targets that they have been using and decided to leave them in the shed.

 

When was it decided that all the targets had to be directly in front of the shooter for it to be proper placement? I guess I didn't get the memo. You guys would probably not like shooting targets that weren't all the same height for each type of gun.....HOW BORING!!!!!!

 

Please don't come to a match down south.....we use target stands of varying heights......the targets are not all directly in front of you......shotgun targets are not all set in pairs....we rarely use stand and deliver.... not every target is huge.....and we use shotgun targets as pistol and rifle knockdowns......BUT....we do have a hell of a good time shooting! I guess that's why I enjoyed EOT this year!!!!

 

Stan

Well said Stan. I had a great time also. 

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6 hours ago, evil dogooder said:

I have a lot of respect for you marauder but his point is dead on.  If everyone shot the same targets at the same distance with the same layout in every club in the world, then at eot they suddenly pushed it back a few yards your analogy would be correct.   But they don't.   Each club is different.  For some clubs those targets are big and close. Others they are small and far.  

  Just because people assumed  that eot was going to be a big and close match doesn't  mean that the goal line was pushed farther back.  They didn't say it was going to be 5 feet away and then suddenly switch.  

Anyone remember that cry-baby golfer named Phil Mickelson, complaining about how hard the golf course was for the 2011 PGA championship? How about that quarterback who deflated the football so he could throw it better and win the super bowl?  The list of cry-babies is endless. Let's all be good sportsmen and give it our best on whatever field of play we are on, and with the equipment we have. If you win - be a gracious winner, and if you lose - be of good character. Life isn't fair and this game isn't scientifically precise. One of my favorite Cowboys pointed out earlier - the Lord loves us all - regardless of our stage times !!!

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37 minutes ago, T-Square said:

Anyone remember that cry-baby golfer named Phil Mickelson, complaining about how hard the golf course was for the 2011 PGA championship? How about that quarterback who deflated the football so he could throw it better and win the super bowl?  The list of cry-babies is endless. Let's all be good sportsmen and give it our best on whatever field of play we are on, and with the equipment we have. If you win - be a gracious winner, and if you lose - be of good character. Life isn't fair and this game isn't scientifically precise. One of my favorite Cowboys pointed out earlier - the Lord loves us all - regardless of our stage times !!!

Well stated.  Thank you.  

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Interesting discussion - much that has been said before however.   I enjoyed this years EOT but I didn't shoot it well.  Worst finish in nine years.  My excuse is not that the match was too hard.  I just haven't been shooting much in the past two years.   I liked the movement, I liked the target placement.  I also think that folks are comparing to the the wrong sport.  IF you want to compare it then compare it to GOLF.  Why golf, because the courses change.  The US Open is traditionally set up much more difficultly than a standard pro golf event.   You could also compare it to Old time Pro baseball.  Some stadiums had very short outfields - read up on the old Polo Grounds - the home of the New York Giants. 

I've seen EOT with very long rifle targets - heck in 1992 some were 40 yards out.  and Pistol yards were 15-20 yards out.  And slowly over the years, the targets got closer.   I think when T.A. was in charge they were down almost to Bordertown distances and attendance did go up.  So this year they were out a bit more - works for me.  I'd recommend it to anyone.

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Wow... Our game being compared to professional sports... Interesting.

 

Anyone know how many PGA Tour Card are issued these days?

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My SASS Pro Tour card just came in last week. Got a Pro/Am in Boca next week. ;)

As for cry babies, I didn't get that this started as cry babies, just observations that things were different with the stages this year over the past few.

Lots of opinions and no, you cannot please everyone... with stages, pizza or whatever. But this is where we vent, we complain, we discuss what's happening in our beloved sport and so some take that as crying.

As for Phil Mickelson, he usually does pretty well wherever he plays and that quarterback, even though I don't really care for him or his team, he does own more Super Bowl rings than any other quarterback. Did he cheat to get em? Maybe, but that's another whole whinin', cryin' story.

BTW, there are MANY cry baby pro athletes.

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10 hours ago, T-Square said:

Anyone remember that cry-baby golfer named Phil Mickelson, complaining about how hard the golf course was for the 2011 PGA championship? How about that quarterback who deflated the football so he could throw it better and win the super bowl?  The list of cry-babies is endless. Let's all be good sportsmen and give it our best on whatever field of play we are on, and with the equipment we have. If you win - be a gracious winner, and if you lose - be of good character. Life isn't fair and this game isn't scientifically precise. One of my favorite Cowboys pointed out earlier - the Lord loves us all - regardless of our stage times !!!

So somebody critiquing the match that they just shot or are about to shoot is being a crybaby? I’d think the match directors and others involved would like to know what their customers liked and disliked after all if they like what was offered they’ll probably return and if they didn’t they won’t. In recent years attendance at EOT is on the rise and it would be a shame to see that trend end. Perhaps a little tweaking here and there is needed. 

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So, comparison to other sports, hmmm...? I'd like to throw in indoor climbing / bouldering:

  • Every "stage" is unique
  • Some stages are set up faster and easier (to be "clean") than others
  • Sometimes nobody reaches the top (is clean)
  • Different skills are needed more or less (strength, flexibility, speed)
  • Athletes can have a look at for a certain amount of time before climbing it
  • You have to figure out the best strategy

I am quite new to CAS , haven't shot that many matches and maybe I am a bit naive. I just like to say that the diversity of this game is what attracted me! For me it's kind of playing cowboy and pretend to have gun fights. And like in a cowboy's real life you should never know in advance what's coming up to you, you just have to adapt to the situation. Sometimes you have to operate your guns as fast as possible, sometimes you have to slow a bit down and use your sights and sometimes you have to aim really hard and take your time for the shots. We sometimes shoot at 10" rifle targets up to 25 yards away. I know that CAS is definitely not bulls eye shooting, but that's what a cowboy could have faced back then...

My impression from matches so far is that good shooters are complete shooters regarding speed, accuracy, movement and strategy. So, they can adapt to different stages and that's why always the same couple of guys finish on top while others are lacking one or the other skill and therefore prefer certain kind of stages.

In my humble opinion, a match that refers to a be a championship should provide all kind of stages, while other shooting events may be "themed".

 

Just some thoughts by a new shooter, Equanimous

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I got the following e-mail Wednesday from SASS: image.png.0301af77e1d855ba529afe5dc7228a36.png

 

I hope everyone who shot the match and posted their opinions on this thread takes the time to summarize their most important points and include them on this survey.  The additional comments field provides the needed space.

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Doc,

 

I agree with you 100%.  And I've already sent Deuce a PM letting him know how much I enjoyed the match and the stages.  There will always be some that will disagree and that's OK.  Some will query - "what's best for SASS?" The answer is time will only tell.  It was definitely a championship match.  WR is a championship match and typically draws a larger crowd than EOT.  Granted their facilities and local amenities are a little nicer, but then again WR isn't located near the Pizza Barn or the Sierra Blanca Brewery!!! 

 

Will I attend next year?  Absolutely.

Will I fuss about target size, placement? Absolutely not.

Why?  We are all shooting the same targets.

 

Sorry I didn't get a chance to visit with you last weekend.  Congratulations on your win!!!

 

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19 hours ago, Marauder SASS #13056 said:

So I wonder why the slightly different distribution of times.  Was it the Cowboy shaped targets? Did they use more of those this year? Or?

 

Earlier in the thread Billy Boots said...

"Probably more movement than any EOT I can remember in 20 years."

 

And...

"Reloads, more shotgun knockdowns, lots of movement produces greater times."

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Stan, I was just asking and not meaning to criticize. 

 

I agree that variety is fun and the Florida folks have been providing us great match for YEARS!

 

A few angles are fine.  Plus I am pretty sure the bad guys rarely line  up evenly for us :D 

 

Some even duck now and then.

 

Thanks, Stump Water, that would explain it well.  And be a great match.

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On ‎6‎/‎27‎/‎2019 at 8:27 AM, Sidekick said:

If you think tricked out guns makes a difference then how do you explain the fact that both Matt Black and Missouri Lefty (when he shoots traditional) can shoot their pistols faster than almost everybody in the game.  Neither one of them shoots short strokes pistols.

 

On ‎6‎/‎27‎/‎2019 at 8:31 AM, Dusty Devil Dale said:

Nobody will argue their skill and practice is evident and important.  But if you take the short-stroked rifle and pistols away from just one or two of them, what do you think happens to the final ranking? 

That was my only point. 

Why else would anyone expend equivalent to the original gun cost on custom mods? 

 

Easier stages are going to cluster more shooters up into that top tier, where gunsmithing does, in fact, make a difference.  

IIRC Badlands Bud won EOT with borrowed (not short stroked guns) the last time he won.  Correct me if I'm wrong. ;)

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41 minutes ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

IIRC Badlands Bud won EOT with borrowed (not short stroked guns) the last time he won.  Correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm not sure about the last time he won but I do know in 2007 or 2008 he used borrowed guns in 44-40 and finished 3rd overall.  

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8 minutes ago, Sidekick said:

I'm not sure about the last time he won but I do know in 2007 or 2008 he used borrowed guns in 44-40 and finished 3rd overall.  

Thanks! You may be correct. Anyway, it was very telling about the value of gun modifications versus a good shooter.

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2 minutes ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

Thanks! You may be correct. Anyway, it was very telling about the value of gun modifications versus a good shooter.

 

Not to say that Bud isn't a talented shooter because he absolutely is; but, those borrowed guns might have been tuned up better than his own.

 

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17 hours ago, Yul Lose said:

There’s a little pizza place out here that is owned by a Mexican family and they serve deep dish pizza in a square pan. They also have the best taco Tuesday night around. 

Hey Yul is that the one we went to..yum !

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Just now, Painted Mohawk SASS 77785 said:

Hey Yul is that the one we went to..yum !

No, the one we went to was in Escondido. When you two come out next time we’ll hit this one on Taco Tuesday, you can have pizza if you want though.

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23 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said:

 

Not to say that Bud isn't a talented shooter because he absolutely is; but, those borrowed guns might have been tuned up better than his own.

 

Maybe. However, why write that without knowing whether it was true or not?

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19 hours ago, Marauder SASS #13056 said:

Stan, I was just asking and not meaning to criticize. 

 

I agree that variety is fun and the Florida folks have been providing us great match for YEARS!

 

A few angles are fine.  Plus I am pretty sure the bad guys rarely line  up evenly for us :D 

 

Some even duck now and then.

The first paragraph was to give you a little insight on what they had to work with......the rest general comments for all.

 

Stan

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