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Badlands Bob #61228

New California ammunition laws

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12 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

Hey lotsa good things have come from California.   I mean there was Ronald Reagan and...

 

Lotsa stuff before him.

Don’t forgot SASS. It was born in California 

1 hour ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

I'll gladly go to California to shoot...

 

Sure seems like we have a bunch of people that ... Never mind. 

 

<_<

If you make it out to the Bay Area or even Sacramento, let me know. I’ll shoot with ya

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13 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

It's a challenge.  You want to support your pards in states with more restrictive gun laws, but you also don't want to end up in the slammer or with a criminal record because you violated a law you were unaware of.  I would love to get out to Cali and shoot some matches.  I've only been there once and it's a beautiful state. 

 

I think I would do some very careful research first to make sure I'm legal before I cross that state line.  The same for NY, NJ, OR, and MA.

Good advice Captain, in the end ignorance of the law is no one else's fault but our own.  Even though most of these law's are foreign to the majority of us and don't seem there's much sense to them. 

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3 minutes ago, Texas jack Black SASS#9362 said:

What would the problem be for those traveling to NY,NJ,OR,and MA. and now CA.? If you are a legal gun owner and follow the laws I see no problem. The traveler should always be aware of what could bite them and prepare accordingly. 

 We need to support all our shooting Pards .:FlagAm:   :FlagAm:

I think the problem is that their gun laws are significantly different from ours and potential travelers may not know what those differences are unless they look them up.  I know that with my concealed carry I'm good throughout pretty much the whole southeast from SC over to Texas.  I'm not good in any of the states I mentioned in the prior post.  I would research to find out what I would have to do before crossing that line.  Would it be enough to lock my gun in a case?  Does ammo have to be separate?  Is my gun even legal in that state?  Do I have a duty to inform if pulled over?  I would want to know those kind of things.  NJ and NY in particular have gained a bad rep for arresting out of staters who are just traveling through.  Sometimes they've even arrested flyers who get diverted to their state unintentionally and have to take possession of their checked guns.

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Nancy Pelosi was born in Baltimore MD in a political family, the D'Alesandros. Maryland used to be a nice place to live until the Dems swung hard Left.

 

As regarding visiting other states, New Jersey has outlawed hollow point ammo for anyone who is not active law enforcement.

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6 hours ago, Muley Gil SASS # 57795 said:

Nancy Pelosi was born in Baltimore MD in a political family, the D'Alesandros. Maryland used to be a nice place to live until the Dems swung hard Left.

 

As regarding visiting other states, New Jersey has outlawed hollow point ammo for anyone who is not active law enforcement.

This is exactly what I was talking about.  I had no idea hollow points were illegal in NJ.

Edited by Captain Bill Burt
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2 hours ago, Texas jack Black SASS#9362 said:

What would the problem be for those traveling to NY,NJ,OR,and MA. and now CA.? If you are a legal gun owner and follow the laws I see no problem. The traveler should always be aware of what could bite them and prepare accordingly. 

 We need to support all our shooting Pards .:FlagAm:   :FlagAm:

 

I will never argue that the laws here in my home state of Massachusetts are anything but SNAFU.  And that F doesn't stand for "fouled."    But oddly enough, once you've got you LTC, that's License to Carry Firearms, you are more or less all set.   You don't need to carry a specific one, there is no waiting period to purchase or limits on how much you can buy.   The problem is that the issuing of the LTC is at the discretion of the local Chief of Police.  If he doesn't like you, he can put restrictions on it, or turn you down outright.   There is an appeal process, but it's difficult.   And yet, you need the LTC to purchase, and even to OWN a handgun, even if it never leaves the house.   There is also an FID, Firearms Identification, Card, but that is only good for long guns.   If you have an LTC, you don't need an FID.  Open carry is not exactly against the law, but doing so can get you charged with "brandishing a firearm," so you basically HAVE to carry concealed in this state.

 

(Which makes for interesting things when various people from Massachusetts visit New Hampshire, where open carry is perfectly legal.   They see someone carrying a gun and freak out.  I think they even changed the law that you can carry concealed without a permit recently.)

 

But I think what Massachusetts and those other 4 states listed pretty much have in common is that some of the rules make absolutely NO sense whatsoever, and all they do is confuse and inconvenience the law abiding while criminals, by definition, ignore them anyway.   Massachusetts laws on what kind of pistols can be sold, for example.  Or any of the other bizarre things that occasionally get mentioned here on the wire.  Which state has the "worst" laws?  Overall it's hard to say.  In specific areas you can say that Mass is worse than California or that NJ is worse than Mass or that NY is better than Oregon or that each state has something better than each of the others, but worse things as well. 

 

For good or for ill, those of us who live in those places do face a conundrum, for all of their flaws, these places are HOME.   Just up and leaving is not always an easy option, for a multitude of reasons.    Yes, being from out of state and traveling to or through those states can be frightening based on some of their local laws that by the way they are written are impossible for out of staters to obey.   For example, it is against the law to have a gun in your possession in NY state without a NY permit.  NY will not issue a permit to anyone who does not love in the state.   You can't get out of New England without going through NY.  Do the math...

 

All of this adds up to some very real headaches and heartaches.   I can sympathize with those who say they will never come here, or go to California because of some of their incomprehensible laws.   I, like many, have no wish to be a "test case."   The only real solution is to elect a pro-gun majority to the state legislatures, which in all honesty, is probably impossible in those states. 

 

I have gotten to the point where I don't want to take a road trip with firearms unless all of my guns are either antiques or at least C&R guns.   That way I am either exempt from most laws, or Federally Licensed to be in possession of such things while traveling in between states.   Kinda sad to think about in those terms, but such is life in far to many places.

 

Edited by H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619
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You CAN actually travel through NY so long as your guns are locked in a case and ammo is locked in a separate case and you have a lic. from the state you reside in Or if your state does not issue a permit you must not be  prohibited  from having firearms in your state.  Just stay out of NYC.

 I keep them cased till I enter PA.  For the  night.

 I have hunted in Canada for years and never a problem bringing in long guns you just need to know the Law. When I travel to Mexico  or South America hunting we use supplied firearms.

 Check out FOPA for more info

:FlagAm: :FlagAm:

Edited by Texas jack Black SASS#9362

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All this talk and other threads talking about new ammmo laws....plus reading all the new bills introduced in Washington state scares me.  When I look how the vote harvesting (thanks Hardpan) worked in California I expect them to emulate in other states.

 

i just placed the largest single ammo order I ever have even though I reload.  It’s only a matter of time where I live before per bullet taxes or no buying online starts.  I am sure components will start getting hit after a couple years.

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2 hours ago, JD Lud said:

 

i just placed the largest single ammo order I ever have even though I reload.  It’s only a matter of time where I live before per bullet taxes or no buying online starts.  I am sure components will start getting hit after a couple years.

 

I like the stance that Buffalo Bore takes regarding shipping their ammo. If only all the online retailers who do not have a physical presence in restrictive states would grow a pair and follow their lead.

 

“Feel free to order ammo from us, regardless of your local, except HI and AK, which require air freight. UPS will bring it to your door. Any enforcement of illegal/unfair anti-gun laws are the responsibility of that state that passed them…..it may be illegal for you as a resident of one of those states, to order ammo on-line, but that too is not our responsibility to enforce.”

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If you are looking for a reason to not go to a shoot, you will surely find it.

Dismissing all the shoots in California because of some law that apply to California residents only and because you MAY get stopped by the locals and asked questions you are not required to answer, will put you in the position of missing out on meeting some of the nicest people in Cowboy Action Shooting. 

 

That's OK with me if that is what you want to do. I will keep traveling across the border and enjoying friends (and girlfriends) I would have never had, had it not been for this sport.

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On 1/21/2019 at 5:20 PM, Texas jack Black SASS#9362 said:

You CAN actually travel through NY so long as your guns are locked in a case and ammo is locked in a separate case and you have a lic. from the state you reside in Or if your state does not issue a permit you must not be  prohibited  from having firearms in your state.  Just stay out of NYC.

 I keep them cased till I enter PA.  For the  night.

 I have hunted in Canada for years and never a problem bringing in long guns you just need to know the Law. When I travel to Mexico  or South America hunting we use supplied firearms.

 Check out FOPA for more info

:FlagAm: :FlagAm:

The last time I looked, while Federal Law says you can travel with firearms in New York, their State law said you had to have a confirmed recognized shooting association match application to travel through New York...

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So I’m here in California today....and people here tell me the California police monitor the sporting goods stores near the border out of state, record those plates, and send to check points for when they re-enter.

 

 

Wow...

 

so so if your going to get ammo...maybe park at the craft store and Uber...

 

Edited by JD Lud

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5 minutes ago, JD Lud said:

So I’m here in California today....and people here tell me the California police monitor the sporting goods stores near the border out of state, record those plates, and send to check points for when they re-enter.

 

 

Because REAL criminals don't matter...

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1 hour ago, JD Lud said:

So I’m here in California today....and people here tell me the California police monitor the sporting goods stores near the border out of state, record those plates, and send to check points for when they re-enter.

 

 

Wow...

 

so so if your going to get ammo...maybe park at the craft store and Uber...

 

Hahaha... Uh...no.

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24 minutes ago, JD Lud said:

So I’m here in California today....and people here tell me the California police monitor the sporting goods stores near the border out of state, record those plates, and send to check points for when they re-enter.

 

 

Wow...

 

so so if your going to get ammo...maybe park at the craft store and Uber...

 

So you don’t think California LEOs have better things to do than sit outside sporting goods stores in other states waiting for somebody to buy a box of .22 ammo?

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59 minutes ago, WymoreWrangler SASS 46187 said:

The last time I looked, while Federal Law says you can travel with firearms in New York, their State law said you had to have a confirmed recognized shooting association match application to travel through New York...

Nope, That is only if you are staying over. You can drive through NY but stay out of NYC

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16 minutes ago, Yul Lose said:

So you don’t think California LEOs have better things to do than sit outside sporting goods stores in other states waiting for somebody to buy a box of .22 ammo?

 

They do monitor fireworks stores in AZ around July 4th and then transmit license numbers and vehicle descriptions ahead for a stop in CA. I personally know someone that was cited this way. 

 

So you think they would not do it for ammo occasionally?

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1 hour ago, Texas jack Black SASS#9362 said:

Nope, That is only if you are staying over. You can drive through NY but stay out of NYC

I wouldn't try that if I was you.

 

Had a customer that recently move out of NYC. He shipped all of his guns. Did trust driving with them.

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19 minutes ago, Injun Ryder, SASS #36201L said:

 

They do monitor fireworks stores in AZ around July 4th and then transmit license numbers and vehicle descriptions ahead for a stop in CA. I personally know someone that was cited this way. 

 

So you think they would not do it for ammo occasionally?

Let’s just say I have my doubts. They may do it but then again at the bottom of the grade where I live there were 11 Escondido motorcycle  cops writing tickets as fast as they could to speeders breaking the 60 mph speed limit this morning. I guess I should leave the state because I could get a speeding ticket someday. I got a passel of them when I used to live in Arizona so moving there might not be a good idea either. 

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12 hours ago, Yul Lose said:

So you don’t think California LEOs have better things to do than sit outside sporting goods stores in other states waiting for somebody to buy a box of .22 ammo?

 

Folks laugh at this as absurd, but I have a pard (a fellow Cowboy shooter who shall remain nameless) who did just that as part of his LEO duties here on the east coast.  But it wasn't ammo, it was cigarettes, folks buying in the Carolina's and transporting to states further north that had excessive taxes.  Will CA expend the LEO resources to do this?  Who knows, but it is certainly not out of the realm of possibility. 

 

And there in lies the problem, this law, among many others, will have a negative impact on firearms ownership and participation in the shooting sports.  We have the same problem here in Maryland.  When the Legislature enacted the "Firearms Safety Act of 2013" (a law about everything except safety) they created a situation where even misdemeanors can result in the total loss of firearms ownership "privileges", as they see it.  Of course those laws only apply to the prisoners of the gulag, oops I mean residents of the state, but trying to explain those nuances to those from out of state is difficult at best.  In the end, the Legislature was able to shout from the roof tops how "They Did Something" while at the same time, Baltimore continues to have one of the highest, if not the highest, per capita murder rate in the Country.  Not because our gun laws are too lax mind you, but because they don't want to actually charge the denizens of Baltimore with gun charges, they just use them as plea bargaining tools and let them back out on the streets to do it again.

 

Yes, it sucks to be here, but many of us who might like to escape to Free America are stuck here for either job or family reasons, so we fight the fight in Annapolis, we hunker down, and take extra care not to cross the line until we can execute our escape plans.  The Dem's have totally destroyed what was once a beautiful State, and still is for the most part.  They don't want to just be the East Coast California when it comes to gun laws, they want to lead the Parade.

 

Bottom line, all of this has had a negative effect on visitors from out of state to our SASS shoots.  Oh, there are lots of reasons for the decline in attendance other than just our laws, but there was a definitive drop in attendance at our big shoots starting in 2014, the year after the new laws went into effect.  Some folks no longer attended because the didn't fully understand the laws and wouldn't take the chance that it might affect them, and others simply refuse to attend so as not to support the "Regime", really doesn't matter, the bottom line is that attendance is down and there was a direct correlation to the laws that were enacted.

 

I truly feel for the folks in California, and hope that this all turns out to be a big nothing, but the reality is that it is one more incremental infringement of our 2A rights by a legislature that is wholly and completely run by the Democratic Party.  They are fully intent on disarming the citizens of this Country and will never give up that fight, and they are spreading like a cancer.  Virginia, as historically a pro gun state as has ever existed, is slowly being taken over by the anti's and I expect that it will only be a few election cycles before it is much like Maryland and California.

 

Educate those around you about the laws and what they actually do and don't let the hype and paranoia about these laws stop folks from participating.

 

Best of Luck and keep up the fight, from behind enemy lines in the Peoples Republic of Maryland,

 

Dogmeat Dad

Edited by Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L
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Imagine if Commiefornia had checkpoints to apprehend illegal aliens instead of bullets and berries from America.

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10 minutes ago, ChuteTheMall said:

Imagine if Commiefornia had checkpoints to apprehend illegal aliens instead of bullets and berries from America.

 

That would be immoral...

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So, here's my thought.

 

For CA residents, "Buying ammo out of state and bringing it in" is against the law, correct?

 

So the "buying" was done out of state, where CA has no jurisdiction.

 

"Bringing into the state" was also done out of state, as the act of bringing stopped once you crossed the border and it has now been "brought"...B)

 

 

Edited by Boomstick Bruce

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3 hours ago, Boomstick Bruce said:

So, here's my thought.

 

For CA residents, "Buying ammo out of state and bringing it in" is against the law, correct?

 

So the "buying" was done out of state, where CA has no jurisdiction.

 

"Bringing into the state" was also done out of state, as the act of bringing stopped once you crossed the border and it has now been "brought"...B)

 

 

 

Like spitting on the sidewalk, driving 1 mile over the speed limit, texting while driving, and on and on. All against the law and as we all know we are all law abiding citizens .:FlagAm:

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TJB... The CA law doesn't prevent Californians from "buying out of state." We can buy all we want. We just can't bring ammo that was bought out of State back into California.

 

As an aside, Californians can shoot out of state with ammo purchased - or reloaded - in CA, and we can bring back empties, and unused cartridges (that we brought out), as long as we didn't "buy ammo out of state."

 

Be creative. If you really want to come to California to shoot a match, there are other ways for you to have ammo waiting for you here, and you can come in and leave without breaking the law.

 

RR

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7 hours ago, Roger Rapid said:

TJB... The CA law doesn't prevent Californians from "buying out of state." We can buy all we want. We just can't bring ammo that was bought out of State back into California.

 

As an aside, Californians can shoot out of state with ammo purchased - or reloaded - in CA, and we can bring back empties, and unused cartridges (that we brought out), as long as we didn't "buy ammo out of state."

 

Be creative. If you really want to come to California to shoot a match, there are other ways for you to have ammo waiting for you here, and you can come in and leave without breaking the law.

 

RR

 

 

 

 

 My point exact  ,, This is another feel good law that is almost impossible to enforce.  :FlagAm: 

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im old and cranky , i think all of the laws should roll back to pre turn of the century - the first one under our constitution , go after the outlaws and leave the law abiding alone and unencumbered , i try to stay appraised of the laws where i am and where i intend to be but there are places i choose not to go because they make life too difficult - should not be that way , nuff said 

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On 1/19/2019 at 10:56 AM, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Those POS's ain't that smart..........

OLG

 

Whats the old saying about building a smarter mouse trap??:rolleyes:

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Allie Mo's links to the actual CA law have quite a bit of Info.   Short version.....  CA is a working on outlawing Ammo.   Check your History, Mexico never outlawed guns they outlawed Ammo.  It took some time but they eventually got the Guns.

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