help! Help! How can we make the Wire represent SASS.

[Conejo Kid #51342]

Chin up girl.  You are doing a great job!!!!

 

I would not change a thing except to ignore the nay sayers and jerks.

 

Focus on all the great Cowboys and Cowgirls that stand behind you.  We have always considered it a great honor to be part of the SASS family.  Thank you for all you do to make it the fantastic organization that it is.

 

Conejo Kid and Darlin' Dakota Jo

[Tracker Jack Daniels,58780]

On ‎12‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 1:54 PM, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

Hi Folks,

 

The following are some questions for you, as SASS Wire users, and others are my comments as a Moderator.

 

1. Someone has politely suggested moving the Welcomes to the FAQ section. Someone else alluded to their inappropriateness on the Wire. If I moved them to the FAQ forum or the Saloon, I would want to pin a thread such as the following: NEW SHOOTERS, PLEASE READ THE FAQ (or Saloon) FORUM. Then I would give a link. It would be pinned long term.
2. Some have complained about non-SASS gun and ammo threads being allowed on the Wire. I recently moved one, about intra-state travel to the Team SASS forum and one about a non-SASS gun's ammo to the Saloon.  Is that what you think should be done.
3. Reports are an easy way to make your thoughts known to the Moderators. They are very helpful to us. For example, a poster may report a double tap and ask for its removal or a post in the wrong forum and request it be moved. Even more helpful, are those people who see something they think is rude or insulting. To me, keeping those out of the forum are my number one priority.
4. The Moderators do not read every post/thread. I've ignored threads in the past as I thought the subject was not controversial only to have it go "sideways" and get insulting.
5. Since I first became the Administrator, I've hated the idea that the "Wire isn't SASS and SASS isn't the Wire." My goal, which I have frequently stated, is to change that. It seems that I've failed.
6. The point of this post is to ask your help in making the Wire a more friendly place.
7. Please offer your suggestions for achieving that goal here.

 

Thank you,

 

Allie Mo

 

 

 

I was not going to reply here after your uninformed and rude comment on another post, but too much thought and work have gone into this by a lot of good, well intentioned people for me to let them down.

 

1.  There is no need to move the welcomes from the Wire.  It is the cowboy way to greet newcomers.  It gives everyone the opportunity to welcome the new people.

 

2.  Maybe if too many people object to non-SASS posts, a sub-forum could be made for those items.  Many people feel more comfortable asking their cowboy pards about information on non-SASS subjects.  Otherwise there is nothing to keep a person from scrolling by threads that do not interest them.

 

3.  The report feature is easy to use, and the best way to deal with rudeness, and things that offend someone.  Although everyone should remember that just because you are offended you may not be right, and no action may be needed on your report.

 

4.  Moderators should not be expected to read and/or monitor every thread or post.  The report feature is there to help them out in this regard.  We are all adults here, we should be able to disagree without rudeness of hurt feelings.

 

5.  SASS is not the Wire, and the Wire is not SASS.  This is just a fact of life, it is how things are when it comes to face to face interaction versus remote written communication.  You have not failed, you just set an unattainable goal for yourself.

 

6.  The Wire is a much more friendly place than it was, say ten years ago.  

 

7.  There are times that threads are closed and locked much too quickly, and for little reason.  Moderators need to keep in mind that just because one or two people don't like something, or are offended, the subject does not have to be closed.  It may just be a vocal minority voicing their opinion.  There is nothing stopping someone from closing the thread, or just not opening it in the first place.  There are times that the moderators can be heavy handed.  They should expect when the "shout" at someone, or on a thread, they may be offending people and should not get offended and snotty when they get replied to in kind.  The moderators have a very tough job, and for the most part do it very well, however there are times that they are causing themselves grief by their own actions.

[Keystone, SASS # 47578]

Well,

 

I am generally very pleased with the SASS Forums and read the Wire, Saloon and Classifieds daily (several times a day since retirement). There have been a few occasions where I thought posts would be better suited in a different forum than originally posted but not enough to get heartburn over them. The welcomes are okay but it would be nice to know, in a general way, where the new folks live. The only time I get upset about closing or removing a thread is because of the loss of the  entertainment value a posting is providing. Ya gotta understand, sometimes it's fun to poke the bear.  I think the moderators and the RO Committee do a spectacular job.

 

Hasta Luego, Keystone

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

1 hour ago, Tracker Jack Daniels,58780 said:

I was not going to reply here after your uninformed and rude comment on another post, but too much thought and work have gone into this by a lot of good, well intentioned people for me to let them down.

 

1.  There is no need to move the welcomes from the Wire.  It is the cowboy way to greet newcomers.  It gives everyone the opportunity to welcome the new people.

 

2.  Maybe if too many people object to non-SASS posts, a sub-forum could be made for those items.  Many people feel more comfortable asking their cowboy pards about information on non-SASS subjects.  Otherwise there is nothing to keep a person from scrolling by threads that do not interest them.

 

3.  The report feature is easy to use, and the best way to deal with rudeness, and things that offend someone.  Although everyone should remember that just because you are offended you may not be right, and no action may be needed on your report.

 

4.  Moderators should not be expected to read and/or monitor every thread or post.  The report feature is there to help them out in this regard.  We are all adults here, we should be able to disagree without rudeness of hurt feelings.

 

5.  SASS is not the Wire, and the Wire is not SASS.  This is just a fact of life, it is how things are when it comes to face to face interaction versus remote written communication.  You have not failed, you just set an unattainable goal for yourself.

 

6.  The Wire is a much more friendly place than it was, say ten years ago.  

 

7.  There are times that threads are closed and locked much too quickly, and for little reason.  Moderators need to keep in mind that just because one or two people don't like something, or are offended, the subject does not have to be closed.  It may just be a vocal minority voicing their opinion.  There is nothing stopping someone from closing the thread, or just not opening it in the first place.  There are times that the moderators can be heavy handed.  They should expect when the "shout" at someone, or on a thread, they may be offending people and should not get offended and snotty when they get replied to in kind.  The moderators have a very tough job, and for the most part do it very well, however there are times that they are causing themselves grief by their own actions.

Your points are well taken, except for the part I've bolded in red. 

 

However, you should read the Guidelines, especially the section where the following is found. "Direct public challenges to any Moderator, SASS Wire Administrator, SASS board of directors, employee or volunteer;• Leading a lynch mob."

 

https://www.sassnet.com/forums/index.php?/topic/264105-sass-forum-guidelines/

[Blackwater 53393]

I've hesitated to comment here!  I'm convinced that whatever I have to add will do nothing to help either, or I should say, ANY side in this discussion.  I genuinely feel that the wire and its subsections has become too politically correct. Since when is it so wrong to issue an insult??  What's so bad about certain innuendo so long as you don't drop the "F" bomb or one of its equivalents??  I mean really, if you are that thin skinned and that unsure of yourself, how the heck, (I'd use an expletive here, but I've become reticent in the current climate to even use so benign a word as hell here) do you manage to function in the real world???  

 

I really think that if someone is acting like a dumbass they should be called on it!!  I've been called one on any number of occasions and mostly deserved it!!  Spirited debate has become unacceptable for the most part and even when it gets a little lively, someone complains and a useful and entertaining thread often gets shut down WAAAAAAAAAY too quickly.  I realize that the Moderators MUST follow the rules of the forum, but even though I, myself, have only ever been edited once and that edit was rescinded when I pointed out that Moderator's erroneous action, I've seen other folks edited, chastised, and benched or banned for a comment or a word or phrase that was inadvertent or harmless.

 

There are several folks that I know who seldom, if ever, come here anymore because of the oppressively politically correct atmosphere on the wire. I stay here for the folks that I enjoy hearing from and those friends of mine that I don't get to see as often as I'd like.  I mostly stay in the Saloon because it's a little looser over there and the topics interest me more.  You can ask about the latest AK47 variant and not get chastised or whined at because it isn't "Mainstream SASS" subject matter.

 

I try NOT to be rude.  I'll be as diplomatic as I can for as long as I can.  BUT SOMETIMES RUDE IS RIGHT!!  SOMETIMES! An insult IS the right response to give!!

 

NOW!!

 

Why aren't frequently asked questions that we call "Dead Horses" displayed in the FAQ section?? It's not as bad as it used to be, but there are questions that "newbies" ask again and again every couple of months! Then when those dead horses pop up again, the Moderators can direct the inquiry to FAQ and delete the thread like they move other threads to the appropriate subsections of the forum. This will also prevent or reduce the instances of SASS Wire Veterans from some rude or derisive answers!!

 

The WTC forum has languished, unopened and unused for months now. WTCs are important to some and not to others.  Open it or get rid of it and create another, more useful subsection.  An official Welcome section could work.  On three other forums that I frequent, there is a section dedicated to introductions/welcomes. they are informative, popular, and give everyone an opportunity to get acquainted!!  Works better than what we have now!!!

 

The SASS Wire isn't SASS!!  It's like any other organized game!!  There are rules of the game that govern how you act and participate in the game.  You have an entirely separate forum that is the place to bring up what you feel is wrong, don't understand the reasoning, just plain dislike, or wish you could change!! STOP trying to sanitize it!!  It's OKAY to question, comment , or challenge the way the game is played and THIS is the place to do it!!  We can't all be TGs or members of the the Rules Committee or the Wild Bunch or even Moderators!!  Many clubs don't even HAVE an active Territorial Governor!!  How else can those members get their problems or ideas recognized!?!?!?

 

Sadly, I've used up my allotted time sitting at the confuser. The doctor says I have to keep this defective foot elevated most of the time and I've sat here too long!!

 

 

IF YOU DON'T COME HERE TO BE INSULTED, WHERE DO YOU USUALLY GO???

 

Blackwater; Founding member of the American Select Society Helping Others Less Enlightened!! 

 

 

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Hello Blackwater,

 

I appreciate your candid response and using your limited computer time on it

 

Please do not take any of the following comments personally or negatively. I like you (sorry if that ruined your standing  on the forums) and appreciate your comments. I think you are a good-hearted man (even though you don't like cats ). I am just using your post as an opportunity to spill what is in my heart.

 

I do not like all of our rules and discussion of them is always welcome. After all, we wouldn't have had a change in the dropped ammo rule or Rank Point Scoring if they had not been discussed. However, it must remain polite. 

 

If the expectation of politeness is too PC for someone, I suggest they go elsewhere as that will not change. I've mentioned this many times; when I first started shooting (1999), I came to the Wire and did not like the ambiance. I felt that rudeness was rampant. None of it was directed at me as I just lurked. However, it made me uncomfortable. When I became a Moderator, I wanted to put a stop to that. I do not want to hear that "the Wire isn't SASS and SASS isn't the Wire" anymore. It is our face to the outside world. I do not feel that being polite is PC. I believe it is just the right thing to do when you are in a world with strangers looking in.

 

I have been criticized for over- and under-moderating. It is difficult to hit a "happy medium." I will keep trying, despite the hate I receive. It really saddens me to read about "The Cowboy Way" when some of the same people espousing that creed feel that it is okay to show hate toward the Moderators for trying to keep the forums polite and other members for disagreeing with them..

 

Regards,

 

Allie

[Blackwater 53393]

No offense taken!!

 

I'll just say that too much politeness is as bad as too little!!  There are times and there are people who NEED to be insulted.  It's a fact of life!!  If they are not openly challenged, ridiculed, or  rudely held to account, because no amount of polite correction will EVER bring them into line. You can politely correct these individuals, encourage them to do better, and finally lay down the law to them, but even when they get to the point of banishment they STILL don't get it!!  We had one here recently that perfectly illustrated this.

 

When my favorite grandson steps out of line he gets corrected, sometimes repeatedly and without satisfactory results!  I'll catch him doing this and I just say, "Stop being a TURD!!" and he gets the message, but it takes this happening out in the open to affect the needed change in behavior!! 

 

The Political Correctness, when taken to the extremes that we are bordering on, stifles that part of the being that calls us to stand and deliver!!

 

 

[Father Kit Cool Gun Garth]

1 hour ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

.....previous text removed ONLY to .

 

The Political Correctness, when taken to the extremes that we are bordering on, stifles that part of the being that calls us to stand and deliver!!

 

Blackwater,

    I found the quote in your signature regarding "Political Correctness" to be eye opening.

    It originally appeared in a telegraph message between President Harry S. Truman and General MacArthur just prior to the Japanese Surrender Agreement back in September 1945.

     In this case, President Truman played the part of the Moderator, General MacArthur as the SASS WIRE poster, and the Press as the forum itself. When MacArthur used a derogatory term to describe the Japanese in a telegraph to President Truman, like a good Moderator, the President advised MacArthur to not use the term when speaking to the Press.

       I understand this was a time of war, I do, and just like the sometimes heated discussions on the WIRE, some will post things the way they really feel, yet by doing so, they will portray themselves different in the eyes of readers.

       Therefore, did Truman "stifle" the generals' Freedom of Speech for Political Correctness? Possibly, but the scathing use of MacArthur's terminology to the Press would have not only been unnecessary and inflammatory, but would likely taint his image. General MacArthur has President Truman to thank for preventing that from occurring.

       Let's Thank our Moderators for following the wisdom that Truman displayed.

[Blackwater 53393]

36 minutes ago, Father Kit Cool Gun Garth said:

 

Blackwater,

    I found the quote in your signature regarding "Political Correctness" to be eye opening.

    It originally appeared in a telegraph message between President Harry S. Truman and General MacArthur just prior to the Japanese Surrender Agreement back in September 1945.

     In this case, President Truman played the part of the Moderator, General MacArthur as the SASS WIRE poster, and the Press as the forum itself. When MacArthur used a derogatory term to describe the Japanese in a telegraph to President Truman, like a good Moderator, the President advised MacArthur to not use the term when speaking to the Press.

       I understand this was a time of war, I do, and just like the sometimes heated discussions on the WIRE, some will post things the way they really feel, yet by doing so, they will portray themselves different in the eyes of readers.

       Therefore, did Truman "stifle" the generals' Freedom of Speech for Political Correctness? Possibly, but the scathing use of MacArthur's terminology to the Press would have not only been unnecessary and inflammatory, but would likely taint his image. General MacArthur has President Truman to thank for preventing that from occurring.

       Let's Thank our Moderators for following the wisdom that Truman displayed.

 

 

Never happened!!  That meme has been debunked by several of the "veracity" websites.  That line is from a competition that was held, I believe, at Texas A&M and I borrowed it!

 

The following video essay explains the history and truth of "Political Correctness"!  It is a little long and can be offensive to those who lean to the liberal side.  IT HAS NEVER BEEN DEBUNKED!  I invite everyone to view it, but at their own intellectual peril!  I consider this FAIR WARNING!!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SRhr2STdeM

 

 

EDIT:  Those who know me well know that I have little care for my personal image and less care for pretense.  I'll try to be diplomatic when the play calls for it, but I'm likely to say what I feel at ANY point and I'll save the polite language for those who merit it. My sister used to say that the use of profanity demonstrated a lack of knowledge of better vocabulary. I explained to her that I could say the same thing in proper language that I could express with an expletive, but that most people didn't rate me wasting my verbiage and my breath!! 

 

[Father Kit Cool Gun Garth]

27 minutes ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SRhr2STdeM

 

 

Blackwater,

    Have only watched the first 20 minutes and like it already. Will continue the rest later.

    Appreciate you posting the link.

    I guess where I am coming from is the adage that we can all agree to disagree in certain situations.

    It's not a goal to suppress free speech, but IMHO, the use of foul language on a forum is unnecessary, regardless of the rules. Sarcastic remarks only prompt retaliation from some, in the hopes of escalating their anger. I don't consider it Political Correctness, but common courtesy.

      In a Saloon, it would be expected, but on a forum discussing SASS related issues, we are all adults (after all we ARE handling firearms), and should conduct ourselves accordingly.

      Just my take on what should be expected on the WIRE.

      

[Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104]

Allie, while it is admirable for you to pursue the desire to nudge the wire to emulate SASS, it's a fruitless venture.  The disguise of the computer screen unleashes these " Wire Warriors" who feel the need to be crude, rude, and vulgar.  

 

I have followed the wire since Marshal Holloway first started the original.  In those early days, the wire was very much like SASS.  Times changed somewhere along the way so the rules of conduct became necessary to rein in the minority element who wanted to push the spirit of the cowboy way to gain a perceived advantage.

 

Sure, there have been some lively discussions that have gotten out of hand and others that turned into a shouting match by folks who have lost sight of their good sense.  There has been those where tempers have flared to perhaps an unacceptable level but left run to a point where the responsible parties were able to understand the others argument and do a virtual handshake when the discussion was over.  

 

There are some very knowledgeable past posters who have drifted off to other interests as a result of rude or belittling comments made by self proclaimed experts or just plain miserable folks who have no respect for themselves, much less anyone else. 

 

There are others who are still willing to engage in a spirited debate with the same passion and zeal of a street fighter.  Personally, I would rather see folks duke it out and clear the air rather than let something fester.  Should they try to keep it civil, yes but there are times where direct and sometimes brutal comments must be made to get the point across. 

 

As in society, not every situation is going to stay proper and polite.  Should the masses be allowed to jump posters like a junkyard dog on a three legged cat, absolutely not but I see no harm in two wire warriors having a stand-up fight as long as the fight is rational and productive.  

 

So now we have a situation where the moderators have to become the wire police and are being browbeat for too much or too little moderation.  Sometimes the moderators need to let the bulls lock horns for a decent while to see where it goes.  Trying to make the wire too polite could cause more folks to move to other social mediums for fear of saying the wrong thing.

 

Frankly, if the wire deteriorated to the point where if every word posted has to be scrutinized with a magnifying glass to keep from offending even one person, we have entered a perilous zone where the minority is dictating to the majority. 

 

Remember, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of a few.  

[Marshal Dan Troop 70448]

Been here about 12 years. It was the Wire that got me signed up and helped in finding a club nearby to attend. My questions were answered, and very politely if a subject had been discussed before, I was directed to check them out for further information. But for the past several years these type questions in my opinion were rudely answered with the "Dead Horse" or a "here we go again" post to a newbies question.  To me and I believe many newcomers, it wasn't a friendly introduction to the wire.

There are many ways to disagree besides outright attacks or name calling. I always considered name calling and personal attacks when one disagrees a sign of weakness. Yes, there have and are some people that probable deserve it, but rather then attack, ignore the post/poster. Otherwise attack, attacks back and forth are just a sign of weakness.

As complaints about certain posts or lack of, I find it easier to ignore those of no interest to me, rather then add negatively to them to keep them at the top, (ignore them and they drop down and eventually fade away).

Rather then complain about posts that are of no interest to you, or me. You or me need to post posts that are of interest or  which will further educating us further.

Finally, be the solution to problems or disagreement on posts. Walking away isn't a solution, but stepping up to help or fix/repair are.  MT

Just adding- consider or think of yourself as a supervisor, leader or boss and someone came to ask you a question and how you would answer to it? I'm sure the reply wouldn't be as some posts are answered, if so, your leadership would certainly be questioned. Also, how would you be looked upon if the poster and you ever met in person?

Also, some of the disrespect written is almost a form of bullying.

Remember, give respect, and it will be returned.

[Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104]

Marshal Troop, while I can agree with much of your response, there are times when you can't ignore or turn away from a situation where a wire bully gets way out if hand, sometimes you have to stand up to them and waiting for a moderator will just allow them to continue their abuse unabated. 

 

Ignoring bullies many times emboldens them into thinking they are powerful, which results in a continuation of their bad behavior.  Is rude answers or name calling the best response?  No but there are times when you have to speak in a manner that the bully can understand.  That is not a sign of weakness, it's just another way of effective communication when addressing difficult people.  

 

I was a supervisor for many years over one of the most difficult segments of society.  During that time, I learned that responding to a trying situation required thought, flexibility, and creativity.  Ignoring the situation was almost never an option.  In all those years, effective communication, sometimes loud and sometimes crude, was the key to de-escalation.  Not everyone has the desire or ability to face down a bully but there are those who will with the help of the moderators.  

 

This in itself a slippery slope as too much censorship just disguises the issue and doesn't cure anything.  Based on my experience, a person needs to be told what they are doing wrong, what the ramifications will be as a result of their actions, and what steps need to be taken to make it right.  It is the poster's responsibility to make it right, not the moderator.  If the poster chooses to continue their bad behavior, then the moderator has the duty and responsibility to ban them from the wire.

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Hello Folks,

 

Jim has criticized, me when I earned it (I still remember that bad call on my part) and he was polite about it. He did not name names; but, I knew it was my error. That made me respect him even more. (I already knew and respected him.) I believe an adult should be able to take constructive criticism and learn from it.

 

To anyone reading this, polite criticism is always welcome here. Rude, snarky comments are not. We are adults, posting on a family-friendly sport's forum. We are also existing in a society that has a loudly vocal anti-gun element. As such we need to be polite It is not Political Correctness that I am espousing  It is just "doing the right thing" when the world may be watching. 

 

Being rude to anyone, another forum user or a Moderator, is not allowed according to the Guidelines. I have emphasized the Guidelines many times recently. If anyone hasn't read them by now, their actions that are against the Guidelines are their problem. The Moderators have implemented a Warning Point system, reading those are also a poster's responsibility. If someone is rude to a Moderator, it is unlikely they will be respectful of other Wire users.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

[Guest Grass Range #51406]

Leave it like it is. As for comments and stories the briefer the better in the Chronicle

[Black Hills Barb]

How can we make the Wire represent SASS

I do think all the forums are pretty good.  We will never have perfection in everyone's eyes.  With that said, I had mentioned something similar to this a while back on a different thread and think it is worthy of restating again on this thread.  We need to treat all contacts that we make due to SASS as a recruiting opportunity.  The SASS wire and other forums, all those Facebook groups (and there has to be well over a dozen of them), those folks that wander into a match, and all those times we simply like to talk about our shoots.  Each time there is a difference of opinion, a bad call, a gun malfunction.....  We all need to remember that every word and action that we display others see and feel.  We all have an effect on the thoughts and moods of anyone that witnessed it.  I guess what I am trying to say is that it's not so much about the Wire representing SASS as much as it is about all of us representing it.  Also remember that in today's society, we are also representing responsible gun ownership.  Never forget the big picture.

 

So type it.  Read it.  Edit it.  Read it again.  Think it over and perhaps delete it.  Just be as responsible with your posts here and on Facebook as you are with your guns.  At times we probably all need to remember that we represent SASS and ourselves too.

 

[Father Kit Cool Gun Garth]

40 minutes ago, Black Hills Barb said:

How can we make the Wire represent SASS

I do think all the forums are pretty good.  We will never have perfection in everyone's eyes.  With that said, I had mentioned something similar to this a while back on a different thread and think it is worthy of restating again on this thread.  We need to treat all contacts that we make due to SASS as a recruiting opportunity.  The SASS wire and other forums, all those Facebook groups (and there has to be well over a dozen of them), those folks that wander into a match, and all those times we simply like to talk about our shoots.  Each time there is a difference of opinion, a bad call, a gun malfunction.....  We all need to remember that every word and action that we display others see and feel.  We all have an effect on the thoughts and moods of anyone that witnessed it.  I guess what I am trying to say is that it's not so much about the Wire representing SASS as much as it is about all of us representing it.  Also remember that in today's society, we are also representing responsible gun ownership.  Never forget the big picture.

 

So type it.  Read it.  Edit it.  Read it again.  Think it over and perhaps delete it.  Just be as responsible with your posts here and on Facebook.  At times we probably all need to remember that we represent SASS and ourselves too.

 

 

Barb:

    A tip of the hat to you for statements WELL SAID.

                

 

[Kirk James]

The wire would benefit from a discussion forum regarding the ideas from top shooters.  This could include techniques, firearms, gunsmithing information, mental management etc…  I believe you are not getting a high no. of responses it may be because many of the top shooters have backed away from the wire due to many reasons.  Some I have heard are:  the discussions get side tracked, off subject, criticism, rude, names being discussed inappropriately.  Instead, what if we had a site where the top shooters, coaches, gunsmiths could post video’s, give us their input on numerous subjects w/o having to deal with the criticisms above.  Try taking a topic such as dry firing and research it.  I am not talking about the last thread, but other threads.  See what you take away from it.  Look at the last post of on why are shooters leaving the wire and you can see why some may be offended or frustrated.  There is a place for the wire as it is today and I appreciate the hard work to maintain it.  There is a place for the entertainment value and that is appreciated and visited by myself and many others.  But it could be so much more.  It could get the top shooters back if handled appropriately. 

[Stump Water]

1 hour ago, Kirk James said:

The wire would benefit from a discussion forum regarding the ideas from top shooters.  This could include techniques, firearms, gunsmithing information, mental management etc…    it could get the top shooters back if handled appropriately. 

 

A good idea, and simple enough to do.  Create a sub-forum that allows OPs to moderate their own threads.  If the OP isn't relevant to the sub-forum then, the sub-forum moderator can delete it.

 

It certainly doesn't have to be limited to "Tips, Tricks & Techniques" offered.  OPs could also be in the form of a question such as, "How do you get a split case out of a rifle in less time than the 45 seconds that 9 unfired rounds costs?"

 

[Silver Sam, SASS #34718L]

A picture is worth a 1000 words.... Rite ?

 

Well I been hanging around the Wire a long time,

and it has changed a fair amount over the years.

When I first showed up it was sorta like This............

 

Then it became a bit more Wide Open

Like this maybe.......

 

Lately it seems more like this............

 

I liked #1 the Best...

#2 was OK... Most of the Time

#3 is sorta boring.

 

None of them is CAS.... No matter how hard to try, It ain't gonna Happen

 

 

[C0ckr0ach, SASS #26100]

First - one must define SASS !   Is it the members ? Is it the Wild Bunch ?

 

This is not a trivial question, as SASS is both simultaneously.  

 

Also, the Wild Bunch and the Members are not always in sync.

 

The answer to the OP is personal and situational - thus many answers.

 

My view is to limit posts that introduce legal liability, but otherwise support freedom of speech.

I can manage insults and threats - I never feel offended or insulted.

 

One learns the character of the one who posts by the nature of post.   Such learning is valuable.

Why inhibit such ?

[Sheriff Langston]

A humble suggestion.  

 

Post only what you would be willing to say face to face with your fellow shooter, or possibly neighbor, at your next shoot.

 

The "anonymity" of a computer screen should not dictate our behavior.

 

Moderators,  I applaud your work, and do not envy you.  Thank you.

 

Sheriff Langston.

 

 

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

On 12/6/2017 at 8:57 AM, Father Kit Cool Gun Garth said:

 

Chili Ron:

      Give me something you were looking for in the Forums, as a challenge, and see if I can find it for you.

      I'll publish the results either way.  or

Here's one Father Kit: This topic was posted in the Saloon Dec 5. When I went looking for it the other day, I typed "in shape" into the search window and came up with zip. Even though the words "in shape" are part the topic title, the search function can't find it.

 

 

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

Having read most of these posts, I find myself conflicted. I have never understood the impatience show for "dead horse" questions. The search feature is not the same as conversational feedback. You can usually tell by the posters' question or SASS number how sincere they are in that particular effort to understand a facet of this game we all love. Why a wire user would participate in a type of post that does not interest them is beyond me. To complain about another’s subject matter wasting their time seems patently stoopid in and of itself. Blackwater has a valid argument where interlopers are concerned, and where obvious wrong and/or aggressive opinions are posted with scorn or disdain for contrary viewpoints, but this should take more than a single incident.

If you’re going to post “facts” , know your material or do a little research before you press the enter key.

 

I do like the ability to stray from someone else's idea of a SASS related subject, and am willing to let a post of this type be moved to another forum if a moderator deems it necessary.  BUT – this is the place to get folks attention if you’re having a SASS match that you’d like to promote, or if you don’t understand a rule or a call that was made, or you won the lottery and are upgrading everyone to life membership.

 

PC and civil conversation are not the same thing.

 

Signing off with no idea how to “fix” it.

 

CR

[Deuce Stevens SASS#55996]

18 minutes ago, Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L said:

Having read most of these posts, I find myself conflicted. I have never understood the impatience show for "dead horse" questions. The search feature is not the same as conversational feedback. You can usually tell by the posters' question or SASS number how sincere they are in that particular effort to understand a facet of this game we all love. Why a wire user would participate in a type of post that does not interest them is beyond me. To complain about another’s subject matter wasting their time seems patently stoopid in and of itself. Blackwater has a valid argument where interlopers are concerned, and where obvious wrong and/or aggressive opinions are posted with scorn or disdain for contrary viewpoints, but this should take more than a single incident.

 

If you’re going to post “facts” , know your material or do a little research before you press the enter key.

 

 

I do like the ability to stray from someone else's idea of a SASS related subject, and am willing to let a post of this type be moved to another forum if a moderator deems it necessary.  BUT – this is the place to get folks attention if you’re having a SASS match that you’d like to promote, or if you don’t understand a rule or a call that was made, or you won the lottery and are upgrading everyone to life membership.

 

 

PC and civil conversation are not the same thing.

 

 

Signing off with no idea how to “fix” it.

 

 

CR

Excellent post Rick!

[Father Kit Cool Gun Garth]

9 hours ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

Here's one Father Kit: This topic was posted in the Saloon Dec 5. When I went looking for it the other day, I typed "in shape" into the search window and came up with zip. Even though the words "in shape" are part the topic title, the search function can't find it.

 

 

 

Abilene:

     Go to GOOGLE and type in "back in shape SASS Saloon"

     Hit enter and the following results appear.

     This was an unusual situation where the results came back for Salon, therefore, you would have to click on the other search option I've highlighted in yellow above, which yields the following results below:

     Click on the highlighted title in yellow above, and the following result below appears.

    

 

     When you click on the title in yellow above, it will take you to the THREAD.

     Hope this helps.

 

[Father Kit Cool Gun Garth]

10 hours ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

Here's one Father Kit: This topic was posted in the Saloon Dec 5. When I went looking for it the other day, I typed "in shape" into the search window and came up with zip. Even though the words "in shape" are part the topic title, the search function can't find it.

 

Abilene:

     The above is the "back door" method to find what you were looking for.

     As to the SASS Search function, be sure you are in the Forum where the THREAD occurred, which in this case was the SASS SALOON.

    When I typed in "back in shape" and searched "This Forum", I found the THREAD appeared albeit about 5 entries down.

    Let me know if you don't see it when you try again.

    Hopefully this has helped.

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

13 hours ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

Here's one Father Kit: This topic was posted in the Saloon Dec 5. When I went looking for it the other day, I typed "in shape" into the search window and came up with zip. Even though the words "in shape" are part the topic title, the search function can't find it.

 

 

Hi Slim,

 

Although Father Kit's way will work. There is a much easier method using the Wire's search feature.

 

If you are in the Saloon and know the topic should be there,

1. type the word shape in the search box at the top right of the page
2. select this forum from the drop-down list on the left of the box
3. the topic came up in the search results.

If you do not know what forum the topic is, select all content from the drop-down list.

 

For future reference, I pinned instructions in the FAQ section.  https://www.sassnet.com/forums/index.php?/topic/267483-search-feature/

 

Regards,

 

Allie

[John Boy]

Quote

The point of this post is to ask your help in making the Wire a more friendly place.

Allie - The Wire is one big smorgasbord of any and all topics co-mingled together.  If you visit all the other forums, they are broken up into specific categories and the posters sincerely adhere to post in the correct one.  The 1st thread is identified in each category and if you have an interest you open the thread.  Otherwise - just skip over to the next the category ... so on, so forth.  Like on Cast Boolits - I have no interest in the Air Guns category, so I skip over it instead of plowing through all the threads to read or respond to the ones that I'm interested in.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forum.php

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/

Be sure to visit the GBO Forums. We have over 160 covering a wide range of topics.

[Outrider, SASS #72622]

To be on SASS Wire, must have current paid SASS Membership.

Just my .02 cents.

[John Boy]

Quote

SASS Wire is a forum for the Membership of SASS and guests interested in SASS Cowboy Action Shooting.

SASS Wire Classifieds ...

Quote

Offers on the Classifieds may only be posted by a SASS Member (you may not post for someone else), in good standing, and must include his/her SASS Number. Offers posted by Guests or Members not including thier SASS Number will be deleted.

 

[Tyrel Cody]

3 hours ago, John Boy said:

Allie - The Wire is one big smorgasbord of any and all topics co-mingled together.  If you visit all the other forums, they are broken up into specific categories and the posters sincerely adhere to post in the correct one.  The 1st thread is identified in each category and if you have an interest you open the thread.  Otherwise - just skip over to the next the category ... so on, so forth.  Like on Cast Boolits - I have no interest in the Air Guns category, so I skip over it instead of plowing through all the threads to read or respond to the ones that I'm interested in.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forum.php

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/

Be sure to visit the GBO Forums. We have over 160 covering a wide range of topics.

 

You might like CasCity better http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/ it’s a cowboy site that’s divided up into a bunch of categories.

 

As for myself, I prefer the simplicity of the SASS forums; pretty simple to scroll right on by threads that I don’t care to open.

 

 

[Duffield, SASS #23454]

Allie,   Getting back to your original question, it will be difficult to make the wire more representative of SASS because we have posters who have never attended a match, some who have attended one and never gone any further and those who have enough interest that they are acquiring the equipment but are not going to be active until they have their gear together.  I am sure that we have some posters who are disabled and this is one of their only outlets. We also have people with vast experience and expertise who post here.

I do not wish to disparage any of these people, and I certainly do not wish to discourage them from posting!  However, the mix of interest and experience conspire to keep the Wire from being "Just like SASS."  

As long as people remain civil I wish to encourage all to post, and post often.  I learn something from most posts that I read.  Even the "Dead Horse" posts turn up information that is new and useful from time to time.  I hope that my contributions have helped some, and that my writing has never given unintended offense.

Thank you for the work that you do for us.

 

Duffield

[Lead Friend, SASS #53635]

I’ve never read the wire Guidelines and still I have managed to go thirteen years without a warning point. It ain’t that hard, just don’t type anything you would say to someone while looking them in the eye. And sometimes it’s appropriate to look someone in the eye and tell them something that might be harsh.

 

I think Wire moderation is often heavy handed, good intentions notwithstanding. I think that herding squirrels, while a cliche, is an apt analogy. The goal of moderation as I see it is to keep the herd moving in a common direction, not to mediate every disagreement along the way.

 

And I just edited myself by erasing two paragraphs about one moderator’s overzealous closing of posts, like a kid with a new toy, especially after making a final post stating all of his views on the subject. Am I being politically correct or polite? I’m neither. Some battles just aren’t worth fighting. The SASS wire is a pleasant diversion, nothing more. We often choose our posses. Likewise we can choose what to read and what to post. I like it here, sometimes more than others, but fundamentally it is what I make it.

[Yul Lose]

On 12/15/2017 at 5:03 PM, Outrider, SASS #72622 said:

To be on SASS Wire, must have current paid SASS Membership.

Just my .02 cents.

There goes potential new shooters asking questions. I like it the way it is.