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Help! How can we make the Wire represent SASS.


Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217

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Hi Folks,

 

The following are some questions for you, as SASS Wire users, and others are my comments as a Moderator.

 

  1. Someone has politely suggested moving the Welcomes to the FAQ section. Someone else alluded to their inappropriateness on the Wire. If I moved them to the FAQ forum or the Saloon, I would want to pin a thread such as the following: NEW SHOOTERS, PLEASE READ THE FAQ (or Saloon) FORUM. Then I would give a link. It would be pinned long term.
  2. Some have complained about non-SASS gun and ammo threads being allowed on the Wire. I recently moved one, about intra-state travel to the Team SASS forum and one about a non-SASS gun's ammo to the Saloon.  Is that what you think should be done.
  3. Reports are an easy way to make your thoughts known to the Moderators. They are very helpful to us. For example, a poster may report a double tap and ask for its removal or a post in the wrong forum and request it be moved. Even more helpful, are those people who see something they think is rude or insulting. To me, keeping those out of the forum are my number one priority.
  4. The Moderators do not read every post/thread. I've ignored threads in the past as I thought the subject was not controversial only to have it go "sideways" and get insulting.
  5. Since I first became the Administrator, I've hated the idea that the "Wire isn't SASS and SASS isn't the Wire." My goal, which I have frequently stated, is to change that. It seems that I've failed.
  6. The point of this post is to ask your help in making the Wire a more friendly place.
  7. Please offer your suggestions for achieving that goal here.

 

Thank you,

 

Allie Mo

 

 

 

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No way!

 

I could not do that in good conscience. I do not think negativity/criticism without constructive suggestions for improvement would be helpful. I will listen to or read any constructive criticism and suggestions for improvement. I've even tried to put the criticism in a positive context by requesting suggestions for improvement based on those critical comments.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

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I've been an Admin and now Mod elsewhere for awhile now and as I'm sure you know, some days ya just can't win no matter what you do.  Like I said on FB, its like herding cats.

 

Some folks are gonna complain about anything.  You do what you think is best for the forum and in the best interest of SASS.

 

Have to say, for the amount of traffic here, its amazingly well managed and calm as a rule, tho I haven't been here very long so...

 

Just keep on truckin Miss Allie.

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To speak to the question of "the Wire isn't SASS, etc":

 

When new people at our club, TRR, ask me about it (I'm secretary but my legs aren't that good looking) I tell them to come to a match or practice, that's where you'll find SASS, see it in action.  The friendliness, helpfulness, offering guns, leather an ammo and not expecting anything in return except for the new folks to have the time of their lives.  The cowboys doing everything humanly possible to make sure these folks enjoy this hobby/sport/obsession as much as they do.  

 

SASS harkens back to Main St, America in the 50's, Mayberry, RFD, Andy and Opie; the Beaver, Hee-Haw; a simpler time when everything was great. 

 

The bad guys got their just desserts, they good guy got the girl or at least the horse.  After all, we remember the past with rose-colored glasses and we can find that today in SASS events, with real people and no electrons in sight.

 

And speaking of electrons . . . if you visit pretty much any online forum you will find that the anonymity afforded allows some people the freedom to be as coarse and vulgar as they wish.  Part of your job attests to the fact.   As Berta once said to Alan on Two and a Half Men, "Alan, you have internet cojones," meaning he can be the big man, the bully since no one will be coming to his door to beat him up.  I see this on the Wire, I don't see at the range

 

cheyenne

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1 hour ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

Hi Folks,

The following are some questions for you, as SASS Wire users, and others are my comments as a Moderator.

  1. Someone has politely suggested moving the Welcomes to the FAQ section. Someone else alluded to their inappropriateness on the Wire. If I moved them to the FAQ forum or the Saloon, I would want to pin a thread such as the following: NEW SHOOTERS, PLEASE READ THE FAQ (or Saloon) FORUM. Then I would give a link. It would be pinned long term.
  2. ....remaining post removed ONLY to 5a25c42374511_SavethePlanet-RESIZED.jpg.adf2f77f16e4023a4c59b673268e738f.jpg.

Thank you,

Allie Mo

 

 

1. Assuming that a New Shooter is interested in obtaining more information about our sport, they may type the words "Cowboy Action Shooting" into a GOOGLE Search, and the first entry (at least when I entered just now) is:

 

5a25bfb3e177a_CowboyActionShootinginGOOGLE.JPG.4d34fe2f0542f4d7bac22a1a01cd27d3.JPG

 

Clicking on the title SASS-Home of Cowboy Action Shooting takes you to the SASS HOME PAGE:

 

                        5a25c06ae12c9_SASSHOMEPAGE-RESIZED.jpg.ef30ba0da2a264fbe1ebbd30a8c0fbcc.jpg

 

If they are looking for a Forum to post a question, they'll most likely go for the SASS Wire Forum option on the top right TAB which takes them:

 

          5a25c1824dd14_SASSWIREFORUM-RESIZE.jpg.58be9f3cb1cb6157993f4d5c1bdf0560.jpg

 

    Their Primary Choices as a New Shooter would be either:

 

5a25c1ba83f14_SASSWIREFORUMstatement.JPG.cbbba947f230085ab5dda7ab7296e44e.JPG

 

                                                    or the

 

5a25c1bf453b0_SASSWIRESALOONstatement.JPG.ed12f7dd9507357a6dd4100bcef9b0ed.JPG

 

     I'm sure we all think of a SALOON as a place to meet people, but for the SASS Wire, it's actually a place to discuss topics not directly related to shooting in SASS Cowboy Action Shooting.

     If I'm a New Member interested in SASS Cowboy Action Shooting, I'd head to the SASS Wire.

     Those New Members posting in the SASS WIRE Saloon, like Silver Creek Jack, tend to get limited exposure based on the fact that more members read the Wire. Even fewer members regularly read the SASS Wire F.A.Q. Forum.

     IMO New Shooters would get the exposure to our current members they would not receive anywhere else.

     One of our newest members even commented to that effect, stating that the SASS Wire was UNLIKE any other Forums they had been on, where New Members were treated with a friendly welcome.

 

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2 hours ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

Hi Folks,

 

The following are some questions for you, as SASS Wire users, and others are my comments as a Moderator.

 

  1. Someone has politely suggested moving the Welcomes to the FAQ section. Someone else alluded to their inappropriateness on the Wire. If I moved them to the FAQ forum or the Saloon, I would want to pin a thread such as the following: NEW SHOOTERS, PLEASE READ THE FAQ (or Saloon) FORUM. Then I would give a link. It would be pinned long term.
  2. Some have complained about non-SASS gun and ammo threads being allowed on the Wire. I recently moved one, about intra-state travel to the Team SASS forum and one about a non-SASS gun's ammo to the Saloon.  Is that what you think should be done.
  3. Reports are an easy way to make your thoughts known to the Moderators. They are very helpful to us. For example, a poster may report a double tap and ask for its removal or a post in the wrong forum and request it be moved. Even more helpful, are those people who see something they think is rude or insulting. To me, keeping those out of the forum are my number one priority.
  4. The Moderators do not read every post/thread. I've ignored threads in the past as I thought the subject was not controversial only to have it go "sideways" and get insulting.
  5. Since I first became the Administrator, I've hated the idea that the "Wire isn't SASS and SASS isn't the Wire." My goal, which I have frequently stated, is to change that. It seems that I've failed.
  6. The point of this post is to ask your help in making the Wire a more friendly place.
  7. Please offer your suggestions for achieving that goal here.

 

Thank you,

 

Allie Mo

 

 

 

 

1.  I feel the new member Welcome should stay on the Wire as that is at the top of the Forums page and likely where newbies start. At least it was for me.

2.   I generally at least look at them, so on the wire is fine for me. If It's for something I have no interest in I close it. Simple.

3. Agreed!

4.    Can't be expected to read every single post. Report it if you think it's inappropriate.

5.  Basically the Wire covers CAS related issues which is kinda SASS I think.

 

For myself, when I log in I go straight to the "unread posts", it lists posts in all forums that I haven't opened. That said, I couldn't care less which forum they are actually in & don't usually notice. When I'm done for the particular session, I then click "mark site read" and it keeps the unread list shorter. It's pretty easy to skip the one's I don't think will interest me, but gives me the option to easily see all new threads/posts since my last visit.  JMHO

 

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11 minutes ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

Wow! There are 120 views and only 5 replies. Does that mean the Wire is A-OK?

I've been giving your question some thought.   First off, it seems to me you likely have a very good reason for posting this thread.   So, I've been trying to put some thought into this so as to maybe contribute something constructive.

 

I've used computer "boards" since the modem days, back in the 90s.    So, as you'd expect,   I've run into a bit of discord, one time and another.   Generally though I'd note the main concerns are pretty simple:    stay on topic and be polite.     It's OK to hold a different opinion and it's sometimes hard to remember to be polite about it.   and I think that's one place where the "Wire" is different from the social banter that one will encounter at a SASS shoot.

 

I see topics get moved from one forum to another here and I've never had any argument about that.   I think you guys doing the moderating here do a fine job.

 

I'll check this topic again in the morning.

Cheers!

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10 minutes ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

Wow! There are 120 views and only 5 replies. Does that mean the Wire is A-OK?

 

No !

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Howdy Allie, I think things are fine, and want to Thank You for what you do. Welcoming new shooters need to be here. Some threads seem to get locked a little quick some times, but we all can't see what you've had to delete...but it's getting better;)......so there goes the cat herd:lol:. The one thread I've thought for years belonged in the Saloon is now there;) Thanks:D

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I think the complaints you’re hearing are from the vocal minority. Don’t let them get to you.

 

I believe welcomes most definitely belong on the Wire because that’s where most people first come for info. To complain that the Wire isn’t SASS and then in the next breath complain about welcoming people is hypocritical at best.

 

I agree with the non-SASS gun and ammo threads being moved elsewhere or just plain deleted. There are any number of other sources to find that info. The SASS Wire should be dedicated to SASS related topics. 

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I like seeing folks getting welcomed, but I will admit that sometimes when I log in that is all I see unless I go down a page or so. Granted, more folks the better, but another forum I am involved with has a subforum under the main forum to put all the welcome threads in. So basically, you could click on the Wire, and at the top you would see a subforum link for Welcome to SASS. You could still see them under the main forum, but you wouldn't end up with 3/4 of a page of welcome threads. Hope that is helpful. Just a thought

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5 hours ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

Hi Folks,

 

The following are some questions for you, as SASS Wire users, and others are my comments as a Moderator.

 

  1. Someone has politely suggested moving the Welcomes to the FAQ section. Someone else alluded to their inappropriateness on the Wire. If I moved them to the FAQ forum or the Saloon, I would want to pin a thread such as the following: NEW SHOOTERS, PLEASE READ THE FAQ (or Saloon) FORUM. Then I would give a link. It would be pinned long term.
  2. Some have complained about non-SASS gun and ammo threads being allowed on the Wire. I recently moved one, about intra-state travel to the Team SASS forum and one about a non-SASS gun's ammo to the Saloon.  Is that what you think should be done.
  3. Reports are an easy way to make your thoughts known to the Moderators. They are very helpful to us. For example, a poster may report a double tap and ask for its removal or a post in the wrong forum and request it be moved. Even more helpful, are those people who see something they think is rude or insulting. To me, keeping those out of the forum are my number one priority.
  4. The Moderators do not read every post/thread. I've ignored threads in the past as I thought the subject was not controversial only to have it go "sideways" and get insulting.
  5. Since I first became the Administrator, I've hated the idea that the "Wire isn't SASS and SASS isn't the Wire." My goal, which I have frequently stated, is to change that. It seems that I've failed.
  6. The point of this post is to ask your help in making the Wire a more friendly place.
  7. Please offer your suggestions for achieving that goal here.

 

Thank you,

 

Allie Mo

 

 

 

Hi and thanks for asking I'll try to list my thoughts in order.

1. Welcoming new members needs to stay here and I think they need to be made welcome, I for 1 never go to the Saloon. I also rarely go to the FAQ section. What I do have a problem with is the people that jump on and complain when someone new (or not) asks a question that was on a thread 3 weeks ago. Many people don't know the answer and didn't see the other thread and while some are geniuses many would like to ask a question without being belittled for it. If I don't want to read a post I've found that I can scroll right by it.

 

2. I think some  SASS members shoot other guns and have honest questions and they would like to have an answer from their friends on the wire. 

 

3. Thanks for this info I tend to forget about this feature.

 

4. I, like many don't expect the Moderators to read everything.

  

5. I also hope this changes

 

6. I'm not sure that is possible?

 

The only suggestion I would have is what I have to do at work sometimes. I write an email to get it off my chest then reread it and sometimes have to rewrite it or delete it completely.

 

Thanks

Randy

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Great start Allie Mo.  I sincerely hope this helps the problem.

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 I'll tell ya why the Wire is not SASS! I have never had an argument at a shoot in 20 years with anyone, disagreements maybe, but all in good fun and constructive debate. On this wire people get snarky, cocky and some downright mean! Now c'mon everyone knows that!

 

So my suggestion is everyone take a chill pill and calm down, "Don't let your mouth overload yer hardware cowboy",

(I heard that somewhere!:P)

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I mentioned to Allie Mo that there are several SASS members burning down the Wire on Face Book and knew she would find a solution.  I have always tried to hire folks who are part of the solution, rather than part of the problem.

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Hi Allie Mo. 

I think the Moderators do a pretty good job of keeping the site civil. I scertanly do not want the job. 

Seems to me all the questions, announcements and discussion about SASS events should be on the wire. This includes everything about the guns, leather, ammunition and costuming. Is this leagel, is that leagel, can I do this? The wire is the place for questions to get answered. Even if the question has been asked before. When a rule is changed or clarified and new equipment is discussed where else could it be posted but the wire. 

I beleave greating new pards, talk about non SASS guns, requesting prayers and anything else that does not directly involve playing the game should be in the Saloon. 

It would be nice to see the Whats the Call forum active. Ask a question, get it answered without a long what if discussion. 

Thank you for your dedication.

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21 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

 I'll tell ya why the Wire is not SASS! I have never had an argument at a shoot in 20 years with anyone, disagreements maybe, but all in good fun and constructive debate. On this wire people get snarky, cocky and some downright mean! Now c'mon everyone knows that!

 

So my suggestion is everyone take a chill pill and calm down, "Don't let your mouth overrun yer hardware cowboy",

(I heard that somewhere!:P)

I agree with this 100%

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Howdy,

I think things are pretty good.

IF you decide to make a change, maybe announce the change before it gets

implemented.  Get a little feedback.

AND I vote for ONE change at a time. Maybe one a month IF YOU MUST.

 

The one thing Ive been askin for is the Telegraph Office where folks can

discuss the changes in the web and or electronic advancements.

Along with that maybe something like a Stagecoach Office for

discussions about the horseless carriages?

 

And I would like to see folks getting into making SASS related stuff like

leather for instance, allowed to sell for a year or so on classifieds.

Once sort of established, then graduate to the Business class, if you follow me.

I like seeing small business, yes even 'tiny' business encouraged, NOT hit with

a boatload of regulations.

 

For newer pards, there used to be discussions as if "today" was prior to 1900.

The whole wire was prior to 1900 but 9/11 changed that probably forever.

Then, of course, there was the Swedish Bikini Shooting Team.....ah the goot ol daze.

Best

CR

 

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5 hours ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

 

Someone has politely suggested moving the Welcomes to the FAQ section.

Someone else alluded to their inappropriateness on the Wire. If I moved them to the FAQ forum or the Saloon, I would want to pin a thread such as the following: NEW SHOOTERS, PLEASE READ THE FAQ (or Saloon) FORUM.

Then I would give a link. It would be pinned long term.

As I seem to have an opinion about everything - if SOMEONE wanted to take on the task of making ONE post weekly - monthly, etc.

That says, Yahoo and WELCOME to the new SASS members that joined SASS/ The Wire/ Whatever in a given time frame - GREAT.

But we honestly don't need multiple threads ongoing. 

5 hours ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

Some have complained about non-SASS gun and ammo threads being allowed on the Wire. I recently moved one, about intra-state travel to the Team SASS forum and one about a non-SASS gun's ammo to the Saloon.  Is that what you think should be done.

I think it is ok to move non cowboy shooting related topics - but they need a suitable place to go.

My take on the saloon was it was for "fun" - things that may be cowboy; but not necessarily shooting (jokes, poetry, wordy words, etc.) 

A lot of us are shooters or gun folks beyond just cowboy - Perhaps a non SASS firearms forum could be a decent catch all for gun stuff that is not cowboy?

5 hours ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

 Even more helpful, are those people who see something they think is rude or insulting. To me, keeping those out of the forum are my number one priority.

The printed word is a challenging medium to convey intent, tone and inflection.  And yes, perhaps folks may become engaged or inflammatory - but our number one priority should never be civility at the cost of open discourse.  The position of "If this offends ANYONE - it is offensive to everyone" is a slippery slope.  IMO the moderators could work with a lighter touch

5 hours ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

Since I first became the Administrator, I've hated the idea that the "Wire isn't SASS and SASS isn't the Wire." My goal, which I have frequently stated, is to change that. It seems that I've failed.

You've not failed - you've set an unreasonable goal.  SASS is not the wire - because of the very fact that the SASS wire and SASS shooting are two very different pursuits.

The range is camaraderie and competition - there is very little debate or excited interchange of ideas because that's simply not what we are doing there.

 On the wire; we are here specifically to interact verbally / exchange ideas/ debate methods and theories/ put forward our ideas and examine/ evaluate them against others. 

Can these discussion become heated (and in a way rarely seen on the range)?  Of course, but usually because of passions and deeply held beliefs that only come out during debate and enthusiastic interactions. 

SASS is NOT the Wire and the Wire is NOT SASS - because they are different.

5 hours ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

The point of this post is to ask your help in making the Wire a more friendly place.

Please offer your suggestions for achieving that goal here.

 

The Wire is an incredibly friendly place.

One of the first places I turned after I lost my Father was the Wire.

When we lost our family dog - the Wire was where I unloaded my heartache.

I have argued for - against and about, unloaded on, insulted and been insulted by, debated, discussed, yelled and been yelled at, cried with and comforted by my FRIENDS on the Wire.

It is only with irritation that a oyster turns sand into a pearl.

Without that irritant - we are denied that beauty.

 

Ill take a little bit of annoying for the prize that is the Wire.

 

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Great topic. There are a few posters who seem to act up and have nothing constructive to add, they must just like to get people upset. I don't think there is a better way to deal with this than you moderators are doing now. I wonder how many of them are current SASS members?

I was a little put off at first to see all of the welcome posts, but after thinking about the light went on and realized this is the future of our game.

Keep up the good work.

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Thank you all for the comments.

 

One thing we (Moderators) really need help with is the posts where people are rude. Reports are easy on you and us.

 

To do this, hover your mouse on the upper right of the offensive post and the "Report post" link will appear. You don't have to comment; but a word or two is helpful, such as, "rude to a new member."

 

Regards,

 

Allie

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2 hours ago, Shooting Bull said:

 

I agree with the non-SASS gun and ammo threads being moved elsewhere or just plain deleted. There are any number of other sources to find that info. The SASS Wire should be dedicated to SASS related topics. 

Couldn't say it any better

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Howdy,

If someone wants to talk about a non sass gun cant those who want

to stay on sass guns just skip it?

Would this include sales?

So someone couldn't sell an ar to get funds for buying a Colt?

Something not quite right there.

Best

CR

 

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I mainly lurk in The Saloon. I have been quietly hanging there for 14 years under one alias or another. I can't say much about The Wire because I am very rarely over here. But the Saloon I can offer my opinion on. I think it is the best darned forum on the Internet! And you Moderators do a fine job. Thanks for taking the time to do so.

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5 hours ago, StirrupTrouble said:

I like seeing folks getting welcomed, but I will admit that sometimes when I log in that is all I see unless I go down a page or so. Granted, more folks the better, but another forum I am involved with has a subforum under the main forum to put all the welcome threads in. So basically, you could click on the Wire, and at the top you would see a subforum link for Welcome to SASS. You could still see them under the main forum, but you wouldn't end up with 3/4 of a page of welcome threads. Hope that is helpful. Just a thought

 

That's a great suggestion and how we have it set up on the board I Mod at as well as several other forums I frequent.

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Review

 

In my experience one of the most common troubles on a Computer Board is the Ad Hominem.

See definition:  ChangingMinds

 

Ad Hominem is a classic fallacy.   It reflects badly on whoever makes it up and doesn't help with the discussion in any way.

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Allie,

What if the WTC forum, that appears to be a holding spot was  turned into a forum for Non-SASS related shooting discussions?

Also, in regards to “Welcomes”. What if the FAQ forum were retitled “New Member Welcomes and Frequently Asked Questions” with a description that says “New members can go here and introduce yourselves. All FAQs and SASS Wire rules and Guidelines can be found here - all new members must become familiar with the Wire rules and guidelines”.

 

Just some thoughts.

 

PS: all those “Congratulations” posts after big matches could go to the FAQ Forum as well. After Winter Range last year the congrats posts were getting a bit thick.

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55 minutes ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Allie,

What if the WTC forum, that appears to be a holding spot was  turned into a forum for Non-SASS related shooting discussions?

Also, in regards to “Welcomes”. What if the FAQ forum were retitled “New Member Welcomes and Frequently Asked Questions” with a description that says “New members can go here and introduce yourselves. All FAQs and SASS Wire rules and Guidelines can be found here - all new members must become familiar with the Wire rules and guidelines”.

 

Just some thoughts.

 

PS: all those “Congratulations” posts after big matches could go to the FAQ Forum as well. After Winter Range last year the congrats posts were getting a bit thick.

I guess I’m a little confused, if we move everything somewhere else what will be left on this Forum? As I’ve stated before I don’t have any problem scrolling past what I don’t want to read. 

 

Thanks. 

Randy

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1 hour ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Allie,

What if the WTC forum, that appears to be a holding spot was  turned into a forum for Non-SASS related shooting discussions?

Also, in regards to “Welcomes”. What if the FAQ forum were retitled “New Member Welcomes and Frequently Asked Questions” with a description that says “New members can go here and introduce yourselves. All FAQs and SASS Wire rules and Guidelines can be found here - all new members must become familiar with the Wire rules and guidelines”.

 

Just some thoughts.

 

PS: all those “Congratulations” posts after big matches could go to the FAQ Forum as well. After Winter Range last year the congrats posts were getting a bit thick.

I would like to see the WTC forum open but just for that! I have no problem welcoming new shooters/members on the regular wire.

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10 minutes ago, Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 said:

I guess I’m a little confused, if we move everything somewhere else what will be left on this Forum? As I’ve stated before I don’t have any problem scrolling past what I don’t want to read. 

 

Thanks. 

Randy

Yep, non SASS guns and and other stuff can go right where it belongs...in the Saloon;) The Saloon is a place to discuss topics not directly related to shooting in SASS Cowboy Action Shooting. I'm just sayin:)

 

2 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I would like to see the WTC forum open but just for that! I have no problem welcoming new shooters/members on the regular wire.

Yep........yep, yep:D

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1 hour ago, Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 said:

I guess I’m a little confused, if we move everything somewhere else what will be left on this Forum? As I’ve stated before I don’t have any problem scrolling past what I don’t want to read. 

 

Thanks. 

Randy

 

1 hour ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I would like to see the WTC forum open but just for that! I have no problem welcoming new shooters/members on the regular wire.

 

1 hour ago, Jefro, SASS#69420 said:

Yep, non SASS guns and and other stuff can go right where it belongs...in the Saloon;) The Saloon is a place to discuss topics not directly related to shooting in SASS Cowboy Action Shooting. I'm just sayin:)

 

Yep........yep, yep:D

 

It was just a thought, Pards. Something to consider. I like your ideas too. Maybe if we opened the WTC forum folks would actually put something in the subject lines other than "WTC" with no other info. :D

 

 

 

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